just lost my job to out sourcing

[jyates]

No need knocking a fellow when he's already down (the guy who wrote the OP).
He's angry and hurt about losing his job (I would be too) and has been brainwashed
by the liberal media to believe that President Bush could have stopped his company
from finding cheap labor overseas.

I'm afraid there will be many many more stories like this in the future.

The world is getting smaller and smaller every day and these emerging work forces
in the world are going to reek havoc on the price of labor.

 

[Rickten]

what scares me the most is that while Sprint is outsourcing his job and saving 20 bucks an hour by doing so is this savings ever going to reach the customer. I would venture to say no. So the cost of living remains the same and may even continue to rise. While India is doing great and their economy is getting better and the quality of life is getting better for people living there what is happening to the quality of life for americans. Maybe its possible to survive off $2/hr in India (although I can't imagine how that is possible) it is IMPOSSIBLE to do so anywhere in America.

Now grads right out of college with engineering degrees are finding themselves fighting for jobs with people who have a degree, 10+ years of experience, many certifications, and connections in the industry. WTF is a college grad supposed to do. Some people are going to say well just do good in school and work your ass off and get some internships, I don't care if you get straight A's and have the best internship in the world you can't compete with someone who has 10+ years experience in the industry and the same degree that you do. Thinking about that scares the crap out of me. With the creation of the internet I think more and more fields will become targets to outsourcing. Any job that doesn't require one on one interaction with the consumer and isn't limited to certain regions of the world do to available resources would seem vulnerable to me.

 

[Ilmater]

Originally posted by: virtueixi
If you think Bush has no control of the economy:

He can authorize the release of the reserves and depending on how much is released, the price could definitly drop more than 10 cents. He could provide grants for the expansion of oil excavation, like in Iraq or Alaska for instance.

Currently, there are tax law loopholes in effect supporting outsourcing. Bush could change those laws, so that the companies have to pay much more taxes for outsourcing and discouraginh it by forcing companies to end up paying more than saving. Bush's logic on outsourcing is that it will save the coroprations so much money, that in the long run they will have more jobs. However, this plan does not take into account other consequences, like increased welfare reciption, decreased spending and other damages to economy during this period.

Finally, DO YOU REALLY THINK BUSH HAS NO INFLUENCE OVER THE FED? and ...........
Is it a coencidence that we are in such a huge deficit during his term? Did it just happen on it's own???

You people that don't know about economics need to stop posting things like this (read: most Democrats). Liberals don't think big picture, they think "What's good right now. What's the happy, feel good solution." Conservatives look at the big picture.

Let's go down the line, shall we? Opening up the reserves would be a HUGE mistake. They're for emergencies, to help the country FUNCTION, not to get us out of a recession. If you want prices to go down, stop complaining about drilling in the arctic wildlife reserve, or ride your bike to work. The only way to ween Americans off of gas is to drive gas prices up, so if this causes 10 people to buy Civics instead of Expiditions, I'm happy.

As for taxes, under your plan, we'd raise taxes on a bunch of companies (considerably), and then they'd have to compete in the global economy with companies that don't have those restrictions. The same Americans whose jobs you've "saved" would start buying foreign goods and services because they're cheaper, or their companies would just leave America ENTIRELY in order to compete. Good idea. Now, instead of 1100 of Sprint's employees being laid off, all of its employees are laid off. Moron.

The deficit happened because of tax cuts and other federal programs designed to up the economy. If you were the president, you'd do the same thing. The American public doesn't care about the deficit, they care about having jobs. As for the federal interest rate, they can't LOWER it any more, so there's not a whole lot to do.

 

[Spydermag68]

Lowpost,

This site had a list of companies that were outsourcing jobs, but they redesigned the site and I have not been able to find the list.


Your job is going to india

 

[JoeKing]

A few months ago, didn't Bushs' chief economic adviser say out sourcing was good for the economy?

None the less you can't blame all of the problems on Bush. We have to blame ourselves. The consumer, the citizen is the one with ultimate power en mass in this country. Choose what services you use, what products you buy, what politicians you vote in. Stop bitching and theorizing.

 

[RobCur]

how is americans losing job good for the economy? just imagine if everyones high paying job is reduced to hamburger and french fries at mcdonalds

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: bozack
orry but I agree with many in this thread, if there is anyone to blame it is the companies who want to lower their overhead and in turn sacrifice CS. The current admin can do little to limit the effects of globalization without hurting industry on the whole as we just won't be able to compete.

As others have said, if there is any admin to blame it would have been the previous one for their support and push of NAFTA, however again even that is futile as it was inevitable...

Personally I wish I had gone into a more stable career, possibly Doctor, Pharmacist what not, something that really cannot be outsourced as you always need people on hand, whereas software dev, support and what not due to advancements in tech can always be done remotely....

In answer to Supertools query, in a perfect world yes people who put the time in and get the degree should be fairly compensated, but this is a capitalist system and market forces apply, if you can get someone to do the same job at 1/3 the cost or more than you do it, even if it means sacrificing service as you can always find other ways to please the customer, and people as a whole will look the other way at personal service when they see themselves or percieve themselves getting a steallar deal. Maybe you should blame people on the whole for being cheapasses, because until people start to care more about service and or the quality the get over price things wont change.

Yeah market forces apply, and there is an inherent risk in choosing a career where the work you do can be done away from the office. It could benefit you in that your company allows you to work from home, or it could hurt you in that your company lets someone in India do the work for whatever it costs to have someone do that work in India.

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: phantom309

Originally posted by: Tiqua
In the late 1800s tons of farmers lost their jobs as America became more productive. In the early 1900s it was manufacturing. Now it's service supports/programmers. Guess what? Outsourcing isn't anything new; nor are shifts in the American job sectors. So if the government intervened should we all go back to having our own vegetable gardens and raising our own livestock?

The economy IS improving and growing. Recently the number of jobs added are greater than the population growth. Blaming or crediting any US President for the economy shows a lack of understanding of the US economy. For example GWB was able to tank the economy before he took office, he has great magical powers as the President-elect.

I'm sorry that you lost your job. It's a rough place to be. Good luck on finding another job.

Tiqua

Yes. The OP has every reason to be angry and bitter - losing a job is one of the worst things that can happen to an adult. As much as I enjoy bashing GWB, and as many and varied as his failures are, he has nothing to do with this problem. The plain fact is that any jobs that CAN be outsourced to cheaper labor WILL be. It's not fair to American workers, it sucks, etc., but it's reality and we all have to accept it.

Our services are worth what the market will pay - nothing more. It doesn't matter how qualified you are, how much you spent on your education, how much seniority you have, or what a great guy you are. If someone else can do your job adequately for less money, that's what that job is worth. So it seems a $22/hr tech support job in 2000 is worth $2/hr in 2004. I bet typewriter repairmen made a pretty good living too, before word processors came along.

Welcome to the ugly side of capitalism. It's a shame that it's the only economic model that truly works. Maybe someday we'll figure out something better. But until then all we can do is adapt, and move on.

The thing with capitalism is that such shifts are inevitable. It all works out for the general good. The principle of comparative advantage dictates that we focus on what we do best and that other countries focus on what they best. It results in lower prices for everyone.

The downside to all of this is that people lose their jobs and retraining is necessary to move people into those areas in which we are most productive. This is painful for those who make those sacrifices for the common good. I support capitalism and I support globalization, but at the same time I believe that those people who are productive members of society who make these sacrifices for us should be protected. They should be offered temporary unemployment compensation and retraining benefits to get them back on track. I think counselling and even health insurance should be offered to those people who worked for years and now are without a job, this is the best way to get them back on their feet and productive again and the cycle continues. As a capitalist, I think this will help us produce more and improve our standard of living. This is very different from paying deadbeats who have never worked in their lives or never will - I'm no socialist.

 

[blodhi74]

thank U gus for the negitive and positive posts ..... the reason I am pissed and and some would say arrogent is the fact that both me and wife worked @ the same facility and now both out of job ....... I will and am doing all I can to pay the mortgage and the bills .... I have no shame in working odd jobs ( I worked as a janitor while I was in collage) to pay the bills and and feed my family ...and I do understand economics and politics and will not wish this on any body else. I'm pissed @ coparate america ....If I had offended any one, I applogize ....everybody is entiteled to their beliefs ..... as my forefathers were immigrants to this place we call home ( and it is my home ) ..... it gets emotional when I'm branded a certian way ........peace and love to all

 

[Vonkhan]

me and wife worked @ the same facility and now both out of job

never heard of putting all your eggs in the same basket, ey?

I'm no big fan of Bush, but u cant blame this on him. That's just stupid. What's he gonna do? Sign a presidential decree that mets out capital punishment for the CEOs who decide to outsource?

America is capitalist, deal with it. You SERIOUSLY cant expect a company NOT to go in for a cheaper option if its available. If the option backfires, their loss and they'll deal with it.

Example: Given a limited budget, you have the choice of paying the "all american" joe $200 to clean your swimming pool or pay $30 to the mexican immigrant for the same, although he might be a bit sloppy. I know what I'd do

Grow up, deal with it, move on.

If you have a buge huge pineapple-up-your-ass problem with outsourcing, boycott the company and complain to the BBB.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: gsaldivar
Wall Street Journal: More Work is Outsourced to U.S. than Away from it

:beer:

The value of U.S. exports of legal work, computer programming, telecommunications, banking, engineering, management consulting and other private services jumped to $131.01 billion in 2003, up $8.42 billion from the previous year, the Commerce Department reported Friday.

Imports of such private services -- a category that encompasses U.S. outsourcing of call centers and data entry to developing nations, among other things -- hit $77.38 billion for the year, up $7.94 billion from 2002. Measuring imports against exports, the U.S. posted a $53.64 billion surplus last year in trade in private services with the rest of the world.

=============
The analysis in my opinion fails to make one important and fundamental distinction.
When foreign companies outsource work to the US, the products or services are generally sold to US consumers. For example, BMW or Toyota opens a plant in Alabama (I think because of US law) in order to sell to US consumers.

When US companies outsource work to foreign countries, the products or services are not generally for that foreign countries' consumption, but for US consumption.

The balance of trade is not a simply subtraction. We are losing jobs and not getting net gains in new markets. Before NAFTA, we had a net trade surplus with Mexico ... now it's a large deficit. I am not against free trade as long as it is fair on both sides. We cannot compete with 20cent to 2 dollars an hour and/or no environmental or labor laws.

People want to talk about horse and buggy analogy ... but many of these jobs are good paying jobs. Jobs that require advanced skills in emerging and maturing fields (software development, programming, manufacturing). I don't understand why people want to bash someone like OP who is clearly upset about losing his job. People in America are fighting to save their jobs or are upset that their jobs are not secure to outsourcing no matter how educated they are .... what is wrong with that? They have ever right to demand that politicans/gov't do something about it because this is a representative DEMOCRACY.

You start losing enough good paying jobs to overseas, pretty soon, you won't have a US market to sell to.
Can you see a future where MOST of the jobs are either B&M service jobs OR gov't jobs. I'll bet the conservatives would love that. :roll:

Lastly, best of luck to OP, I hope you land on your feet again. cheers.

 

[DPG0wnz]

I think I can sum up the entire thread in 2 sentences:

All your jobs are belong to OUTSOURCING!!!!


GWB set us up the bomb!!!!

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: chowderhead

Originally posted by: gsaldivar
Wall Street Journal: More Work is Outsourced to U.S. than Away from it

:beer:

The value of U.S. exports of legal work, computer programming, telecommunications, banking, engineering, management consulting and other private services jumped to $131.01 billion in 2003, up $8.42 billion from the previous year, the Commerce Department reported Friday.

Imports of such private services -- a category that encompasses U.S. outsourcing of call centers and data entry to developing nations, among other things -- hit $77.38 billion for the year, up $7.94 billion from 2002. Measuring imports against exports, the U.S. posted a $53.64 billion surplus last year in trade in private services with the rest of the world.

=============
The analysis in my opinion fails to make one important and fundamental distinction.
When foreign companies outsource work to the US, the products or services are generally sold to US consumers. For example, BMW or Toyota opens a plant in Alabama (I think because of US law) in order to sell to US consumers.

When US companies outsource work to foreign countries, the products or services are not generally for that foreign countries' consumption, but for US consumption.

The balance of trade is not a simply subtraction. We are losing jobs and not getting net gains in new markets. Before NAFTA, we had a net trade surplus with Mexico ... now it's a large deficit. I am not against free trade as long as it is fair on both sides. We cannot compete with 20cent to 2 dollars an hour and/or no environmental or labor laws.

People want to talk about horse and buggy analogy ... but many of these jobs are good paying jobs. Jobs that require advanced skills in emerging and maturing fields (software development, programming, manufacturing). I don't understand why people want to bash someone like OP who is clearly upset about losing his job. People in America are fighting to save their jobs or are upset that their jobs are not secure to outsourcing no matter how educated they are .... what is wrong with that? They have ever right to demand that politicans/gov't do something about it because this is a representative DEMOCRACY.

You start losing enough good paying jobs to overseas, pretty soon, you won't have a US market to sell to.
Can you see a future where MOST of the jobs are either B&M service jobs OR gov't jobs. I'll bet the conservatives would love that. :roll:

Lastly, best of luck to OP, I hope you land on your feet again. cheers.

Manufacturing /= Services

 

[Hammer]

i like how you blame bush for losing your job. way to shift the blame and find a scapegoat! your job going overseas has nothing to do with bush. your job went overseas because your job can be done by someone cheaper. who's fault is that? if you were more skilled, your job wouldn't be as easy to shift overseas. is that bush's fault too? :roll:

 

[remagavon]

Man a lot of people don't understand capitalism; that's the real reason behind the outsourcing, and if I was running a company that was tight on finances and could possibly go under, I would definately outsource to wherever the hell I could legally go in order to stay alive. The fact that we CAN be fired and have to actually *gasp* work like hell to stay afloat in the job market is a fantastic thing, and it makes this country great.

India's economy will flourish for the next few years, increasing the cost of goods there, which means the workers will demand higher pay- until eventually US businesses will realise that the (future) slight savings will be offset by the lack of communication skills, and there will probably be a huge rise in employment right here at home. We just have to wait for it.

 

[rh71]

Originally posted by: Rickten
what scares me the most is that while Sprint is outsourcing his job and saving 20 bucks an hour by doing so is this savings ever going to reach the customer. I would venture to say no.

Maybe they'll use it to better their coverage. :|

 

[Metron]

Forget India... they've been undercut in price by the Russians. When I called SBC for tech support the other day, I got a girl in Russia!

This is not the fault of Bush (for indifference to the working man), or Clinton (for NAFTA). It's because we have companies run by CEO's obsessed with financials, rather than doing the right thing.

 

Coporations are evil.
Don't you get that by now?

They only care about one thing, profit.

 

[imported_Kad]

Originally posted by: Metron
Forget India... they've been undercut in price by the Russians. When I called SBC for tech support the other day, I got a girl in Russia!

This is not the fault of Bush (for indifference to the working man), or Clinton (for NAFTA). It's because we have companies run by CEO's obsessed with financials, rather than doing the right thing.

do they have a foreign accent ? how did you get aware that they are not from US ?

even if the labor cost is lower, I suppose that communication costs are much higher... but that probably does not offset the first effet because labor stands for a bigger component in the global cost.

 

[imported_Kad]

Regarding outsourcing, I know that it is difficult to have a global view.
But you have mainly a one-sided vision.
On the other side, outsourcing create jobs abroad and contributes to economic development. Is it bad, wrong ?
In the end, emerging countries import goods from developed countries !
Moreover, outsourcing can also benefit to consumers in developed countries in lowering prices.
This is money to spend in other activities.

 

[Idex]

What he said ....

 

[Xede]

The Outsourcing Bogeyman by Daniel W. Drezner at Foreign Affairs

 

[DJFuji]

I think outsourcing is a good thing, in much the same way that capitalism is a good thing. Without things like these keeping people competitive, we get complacent and stagnate. Competition breeds achievement, and if that means you have to work harder, longer, and faster than your competition in order to survive, then i guess that's what you'll have to do. Survival of the fittest brings the cream to the top and ensures that the weak die out.

 

[gsaldivar]

Originally posted by: Xede
The Outsourcing Bogeyman by Daniel W. Drezner at Foreign Affairs

Excellent article, Xede!

Drezner hits the nail on the HEAD:

"...Should Americans be concerned about the economic effects of outsourcing? Not particularly. Most of the numbers thrown around are vague, overhyped estimates. What hard data exist suggest that gross job losses due to offshore outsourcing have been minimal when compared to the size of the entire U.S. economy. The outsourcing phenomenon has shown that globalization can affect white-collar professions, heretofore immune to foreign competition, in the same way that it has affected manufacturing jobs for years. But Mankiw's statements on outsourcing are absolutely correct; the law of comparative advantage does not stop working just because 401(k) plans are involved. The creation of new jobs overseas will eventually lead to more jobs and higher incomes in the United States. Because the economy -- and especially job growth -- is sluggish at the moment, commentators are attempting to draw a connection between offshore outsourcing and high unemployment. But believing that offshore outsourcing causes unemployment is the economic equivalent of believing that the sun revolves around the earth: intuitively compelling but clearly wrong..."

:beer:

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: DJFuji
I think outsourcing is a good thing, in much the same way that capitalism is a good thing. Without things like these keeping people competitive, we get complacent and stagnate. Competition breeds achievement, and if that means you have to work harder, longer, and faster than your competition in order to survive, then i guess that's what you'll have to do. Survival of the fittest brings the cream to the top and ensures that the weak die out.

Exactly.

That is what you will have in the new America. A few Elite at the top (mostly those that are Board Members of the Megalith Corporations that benefit from Raping the U.S.) no middle and a monsterous third world poverty level population pilfering and killing for anything.

Way to go U.S. from "Cream of the Top" to "Scum of the World".

Great going :thumbsup: