just spoke with a picketing supermarket worker

[skyking]

heh, I'll host it alright....

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: ReiAyanami
yes, bagboys and girls should not be able to make enough money to pay for college, let alone their future children's college. this year alone the UC system raised tuition by +30%

u guys are thinking "o wow, $12 bux an hour!" well they are california bux, so they're really worth about $6-7 dollars an hour anywhere else in the country, cuz every house costs atleast half a million, apt rent is 50% more than outside of cali, plus bonuses like higher taxes in terms of sales, gas, state income....

Example:
guess how much a haircut here (SD): closest place $18, another local place $16, even supercuts starts at $14 not including tip, while anywhere else in the country its $6-8

the only solution i see to address this problem or ridiculous living costs in the CA would be a giant earthquake that wipes out a ton of homes, and they aren't insured because earthquake ain't covered unless u want to pay 200% which most ppl won't. and when a whole lot of houses are wiped out, causing a downward spiral assuming a mass exodus of ppl who dont want to die
a 10.0+ magnitute should happen within the next 30,000 years or so...

tasukete ahnold!!

although i don't support unions generally, u can bet the execs at albertsons, kroger, safeway, will be giving themselves fat bonuses for a job well done attaining the resolution, no matter which way it goes...

Venture out of California sometime. You'll see that Supercuts starts at $12-$14, etc. I'm sure you can get some cheapo $6-$8 haircut, but you can get that in CA, too. Comparing haircut prices isn't a good way to compare cost of living in my opinion since in my experience California, Texas, Alabama, Tennessee, and Massachusetts all had about the same prices for haircuts at the main chains

There's no way living in CA deserves a 2x higher wage, everything isn't 2x as much. I know way too many people living in CA that don't earn 2x as much as what they would earn in someplace like Alabama.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in Alabama

 

[43st]

Originally posted by: darqice
this thread just inspired me to register unionssuck.com for $8.88 (surprised it wasn't taken yet

I don't really give a sh!t but I wonder how many people I can piss off.

who's in? anyone wanna host it?

LOL, nice. I hope those concrete shoes are nice and cozy on the way down, the Hudson can get pretty cold this time of year.

 

[cricky]

If times get hard, then I'll have to work multiple bad boy jobs. Pure and simple. Life isn't fair and a job as a bag boy isn't and should not be a career. There is no reason to pay a bag boy $17/hour. Jobs aren't a charity.

The problem I am having with this whole thread is that statement right there. I've tried to logicaly explain wage progression to you all but it hasn't sunk in.

9 out of 10 bagboys, cashiers, etc. ARE NOT making $17.90 an hour. ONLY those who have shown leadership and management potential are.

The $17.90 figure that is being bandied about in this thread was released to the public in a full page ad taken out by the owners of Krogers, Albertsons, et al to bring their side of the strike issue to the public. It is PROPAGANDA, just like the filers that are given to you at the entrance to the store are PROPAGANDA. Are the owners of the stores going to tell you that "Oh, well, we pay 90% of our people about 7-9$ an hour?" No, doesn't sound good. But since the wage progression scales give a person the POTENTIAL to get to $17.90 an hour in 2-3 years, they release that number instead. Makes their case a whole lot better, doesn't it? Because people have grabbed on to that chewy, nougaty morsel of a soundbite and are chewing it for all it's worth. "Man, those grocery people are overpaid! I bet every last one of 'em in that store are making $17-20 an hour. What a bunch of greedy MF's." This deflects the part of the greed back to the employees, not the employers.

(had to take out the sales figure here. Unless you understand how Sales per Labor Hour works, the numbers looked really wrong)

This is common practice in the media, and common practice in contract negotiations and strikes. I'll put a link up to the union's propaganda, if anyone is interested, but I don't see a lot of interest.

--Chris

 

[AmerDoux]

Cricky, link it please.

 

[cricky]

PDF of the strikers flyer
More PDF Propaganda

Take these with a grain of salt, too. They are skewed to the workers side. Just as the full page ads are skewed to the owners sides.

--Chris

 

[AmerDoux]

Thanks for the links.

I haven't read thru every single post. Has it been mentioned that it has been approx. 25 years since their last strike?

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: cricky

If times get hard, then I'll have to work multiple bad boy jobs. Pure and simple. Life isn't fair and a job as a bag boy isn't and should not be a career. There is no reason to pay a bag boy $17/hour. Jobs aren't a charity.

The problem I am having with this whole thread is that statement right there. I've tried to logicaly explain wage progression to you all but it hasn't sunk in.

9 out of 10 bagboys, cashiers, etc. ARE NOT making $17.90 an hour. ONLY those who have shown leadership and management potential are.

The $17.90 figure that is being bandied about in this thread was released to the public in a full page ad taken out by the owners of Krogers, Albertsons, et al to bring their side of the strike issue to the public. It is PROPAGANDA, just like the filers that are given to you at the entrance to the store are PROPAGANDA. Are the owners of the stores going to tell you that "Oh, well, we pay 90% of our people about 7-9$ an hour?" No, doesn't sound good. But since the wage progression scales give a person the POTENTIAL to get to $17.90 an hour in 2-3 years, they release that number instead. Makes their case a whole lot better, doesn't it? Because people have grabbed on to that chewy, nougaty morsel of a soundbite and are chewing it for all it's worth. "Man, those grocery people are overpaid! I bet every last one of 'em in that store are making $17-20 an hour. What a bunch of greedy MF's." This deflects the part of the greed back to the employees, not the employers.

(had to take out the sales figure here. Unless you understand how Sales per Labor Hour works, the numbers looked really wrong)

This is common practice in the media, and common practice in contract negotiations and strikes. I'll put a link up to the union's propaganda, if anyone is interested, but I don't see a lot of interest.

--Chris

ok. its propaganda. i agree. but for the workers that make 7-9/hour, are they that valuable that they don't have to pay a morsel of health care costs?? should these workers that make 7-9/hour, make more just because their job is more physically demanding than people think?? should they make more because they have a family to support??
absolutely not!!

now for the good workers that are paid 17.90/hour, are they still that valuable that they don't need to pay health care costs?? the job economy is crap, and the every industry has done something to cut costs. if they dont cut costs, then they go out of business and everyone loses. IT admin that used to make 60k, is now making 40K, and is made to work harder (just an ie). even if the supermarket industry HAS been making profits during this downturn, does that mean their employees deserve no pay cuts, or even getting a raise?? i don't necessary think so. its how much that worker is worth in the employers eyes.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: cricky

If times get hard, then I'll have to work multiple bad boy jobs. Pure and simple. Life isn't fair and a job as a bag boy isn't and should not be a career. There is no reason to pay a bag boy $17/hour. Jobs aren't a charity.

The problem I am having with this whole thread is that statement right there. I've tried to logicaly explain wage progression to you all but it hasn't sunk in.

9 out of 10 bagboys, cashiers, etc. ARE NOT making $17.90 an hour. ONLY those who have shown leadership and management potential are.

The $17.90 figure that is being bandied about in this thread was released to the public in a full page ad taken out by the owners of Krogers, Albertsons, et al to bring their side of the strike issue to the public. It is PROPAGANDA, just like the filers that are given to you at the entrance to the store are PROPAGANDA. Are the owners of the stores going to tell you that "Oh, well, we pay 90% of our people about 7-9$ an hour?" No, doesn't sound good. But since the wage progression scales give a person the POTENTIAL to get to $17.90 an hour in 2-3 years, they release that number instead. Makes their case a whole lot better, doesn't it? Because people have grabbed on to that chewy, nougaty morsel of a soundbite and are chewing it for all it's worth. "Man, those grocery people are overpaid! I bet every last one of 'em in that store are making $17-20 an hour. What a bunch of greedy MF's." This deflects the part of the greed back to the employees, not the employers.

(had to take out the sales figure here. Unless you understand how Sales per Labor Hour works, the numbers looked really wrong)

This is common practice in the media, and common practice in contract negotiations and strikes. I'll put a link up to the union's propaganda, if anyone is interested, but I don't see a lot of interest.

--Chris

ok. its propaganda. i agree. but for the workers that make 7-9/hour, are they that valuable that they don't have to pay a morsel of health care costs?? should these workers that make 7-9/hour, make more just because their job is more physically demanding than people think?? should they make more because they have a family to support??
absolutely not!!

now for the good workers that are paid 17.90/hour, are they still that valuable that they don't need to pay health care costs?? the job economy is crap, and the every industry has done something to cut costs. if they dont cut costs, then they go out of business and everyone loses. IT admin that used to make 60k, is now making 40K, and is made to work harder (just an ie). even if the supermarket industry HAS been making profits during this downturn, does that mean their employees deserve no pay cuts, or even getting a raise?? i don't necessary think so. its how much that worker is worth in the employers eyes.

Good thing for them they have the Union to back them up

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: cricky

If times get hard, then I'll have to work multiple bad boy jobs. Pure and simple. Life isn't fair and a job as a bag boy isn't and should not be a career. There is no reason to pay a bag boy $17/hour. Jobs aren't a charity.

The problem I am having with this whole thread is that statement right there. I've tried to logicaly explain wage progression to you all but it hasn't sunk in.

9 out of 10 bagboys, cashiers, etc. ARE NOT making $17.90 an hour. ONLY those who have shown leadership and management potential are.

The $17.90 figure that is being bandied about in this thread was released to the public in a full page ad taken out by the owners of Krogers, Albertsons, et al to bring their side of the strike issue to the public. It is PROPAGANDA, just like the filers that are given to you at the entrance to the store are PROPAGANDA. Are the owners of the stores going to tell you that "Oh, well, we pay 90% of our people about 7-9$ an hour?" No, doesn't sound good. But since the wage progression scales give a person the POTENTIAL to get to $17.90 an hour in 2-3 years, they release that number instead. Makes their case a whole lot better, doesn't it? Because people have grabbed on to that chewy, nougaty morsel of a soundbite and are chewing it for all it's worth. "Man, those grocery people are overpaid! I bet every last one of 'em in that store are making $17-20 an hour. What a bunch of greedy MF's." This deflects the part of the greed back to the employees, not the employers.

(had to take out the sales figure here. Unless you understand how Sales per Labor Hour works, the numbers looked really wrong)

This is common practice in the media, and common practice in contract negotiations and strikes. I'll put a link up to the union's propaganda, if anyone is interested, but I don't see a lot of interest.

--Chris

I don't care if they make $7/hour or $17/hour... these people are overestimating how much they're worth. These jobs are designed for highschoolers, temporarily unemployed, etc. They're so easilly replaceable!

 

[Zebo]

these people are overestimating how much they're worth. These jobs are designed for highschoolers, temporarily unemployed, etc. They're so easilly replaceable!

You're still going on about that.

Your paid what you're worth period. If the job is so sweet and overvalued more would apply with the comportment and skills nessasary thereby reducing thier wage. ( as is happening is the Computer field) This is not the case or it would be a $5 an hour job.. an employee has a right to negotiate his salery for the maxium the market will allow. And employer has the right to pay the least the market will bear. Usually they meet in the middle.

SKILLS DON"T MATTER ALONE SUPPLY AND DEMAND DOES. * and juice sometimes* (of course all this means personality/popularity which is a skill) You would be surpised to learn dealers in vegas make 80K? I was a what you'd call "unskilled" banquet server in college and made $1500 some days much more than I make now with 2 degrees.

 

[przero]

RabidMongoose - "If I had a bag boy job, then I would realize that I am not very valuable. I have a menial job. And a 16 year old kid could replace me. You shouldn't overvalue yourself, like some of these grocery store workers are doing. "

You should take your own advice. Why do you begrudge these peoples' wages? I am amazed at the amount of jealousy on this forum.

 

[przero]

Riverboat pilots here in Louisiana have a trade association (read: union) that bargains for them. It is a closed membership. No degree requirements. Salary: Avg. $300,000/yr. That would drive you degree boys insane!!!
Think of it, no college at all and that kind of salary. Check out these links.

LINK
LINK2

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: przero
Riverboat pilots here in Louisiana have a trade association (read: union) that bargains for them. It is a closed membership. No degree requirements. Salary: Avg. $300,000/yr. That would drive you degree boys insane!!!
Think of it, no college at all and that kind of salary. Check out these links.

LINK
LINK2

Real World experience sh!ts all over Paper Warriors

 

[przero]

Amen!

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: przero
Riverboat pilots here in Louisiana have a trade association (read: union) that bargains for them. It is a closed membership. No degree requirements. Salary: Avg. $300,000/yr. That would drive you degree boys insane!!!
Think of it, no college at all and that kind of salary. Check out these links.

LINK
LINK2

This is not free market and a example of a monopoly which violates anti-trust laws. Amazing they are allowed to continue.

 

[przero]

It must not!

 

[Zebo]

Good for them then

I'll just say when you regulate and grant a monopoly like the state of LA has chosen to do with these river pilots pay and companies profit is a fair public discussion since the consumer has no other choice.

 

[Regs]

jjyiz28, so you're saying it isn't fair, granted. I was getting paid 7.50 while these union guys are making 17+ an hour, I wouldn't call that fair either. Who is being un fair though? The companies or the people who receive those pay checks?


1. Mechanics don't all make the same pay rate and neither do stock boys.

2. You go to school to get the career you want to strive for the rest of your life, not necessarily to get to the higher pay grade. More than likely, that goofy dumb slacker will either be stuck in that well paid (for now) crappy position for the rest of his life, or get fired with-in a month.

Anyone can tell you it takes more than a college diploma to be successful. Hell, I can slack off and get C's in all my college courses, but I'll end up unemployed anyway because I was over educated and under skilled.

And I don't know where you live, but it takes more than 17 dollars an hour to make a living on your own. At least in New Jersey.

 

[NascarFool]

Screw the union asswipes. I make $20 per hour and I pay $500 a month for health insurance. My company pays $270 on my insurance too. $770 a month for insurance.

 

[IronOxide]

I just want to say that I'm at work right now at a tech support. I make $7.50/hour after several raises (I've worked here 1 year now). Also, I do support for a MAJOR company. Sucks, maybe I should go be a cashier?

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: IronOxide
I just want to say that I'm at work right now at a tech support. I make $7.50/hour after several raises (I've worked here 1 year now). Also, I do support for a MAJOR company. Sucks, maybe I should go be a cashier?

=(. i feel you bro.

when did IT staff become so replaceable while cashiers have become valuable employees.
geez, at least for IT you actually have to study at.
y doesn't IT have a union??

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: przero
RabidMongoose - "If I had a bag boy job, then I would realize that I am not very valuable. I have a menial job. And a 16 year old kid could replace me. You shouldn't overvalue yourself, like some of these grocery store workers are doing. "

You should take your own advice. Why do you begrudge these peoples' wages? I am amazed at the amount of jealousy on this forum.

Sorry, I don't have a menial job, I was 'role playing' as if I was a grocery store bag boy. I'm not jealous of their wages at all - it really isn't a lot in my eyes. However, I still think that they are overvaluing themselves. If these people win this strike, then good for them. If they lose, then that's sad, but I would support the company in this case. It would be great if everyone could work an 'easy' job and earn a decent living, but life isn't fair.

It all ends up as an opinion anyways. I personally think that they are already more than plenty compensated for their work and that's why I am against their strike.

 

[MrColin]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: MrColin
jjyiz28:
You are a creep for crossing the picket line

Why?

When you accept a job (read: agree to sell your labor) for a stated wage and stated benefits, you are forgoing other opportunities to do so elsewhere. When businesses decide to renig on thier end of the bargain it is unfair to the employees who agreed to the previous terms. Regardless of whether you think that $17.50/hr + paid benefits is too much for someone to make at a grocery store, they shouldn't have promised that to thier employees if they couldn't come through on the deal. Do you think that the employees could get away with deciding that they are going to do less work? Of course not, and the bisuness shouldn't get away with these shenanigans either.

As for my "creep" comment, when we see people sticking up for themselves agianst unfair treatment we should take our business elswhere to show solidarity for them. To walk right past them and patronize the business shows that you are an apathetic and don't care for your fellow man.

 

[rmrf]

<rant>I worked for a union (read: mob) once doing construction. I was pulling $17.50/hour out of it, while the union took another $11.50/hour from my boss. Anyone who believes that the union is a good thing, must not know what exactly goes on. The union is for a person that does everthing half-assed, wants a good paying job that they can't get fired from, and is a slacker at best. Everyone that I worked with that summer had no work ethic, wouldn't do things because it wasn't in their technical job description, and basically did sh!tty work the entire time. A friend of the family is a foreman for a well known construction company in the state, he makes $50/hour and doesn't have to show up at work half the time because he says he has a sore back (read: out hunting or fishing).</rant>

I think this whole thing with the cashiers being part of a union, is just another way for the mob to get their hands on a little more cash.