Where there is darkness, there is also light. But, how would light be described to someone that has never seen it?This is something of an impossible question, so all that really offends me when discussing it is people trying to tell one another that they know better than anyone else whether God exists or not. We're all in the dark here.
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
SuperFungus,
Where there is darkness, there is also light. But, how would light be described to someone that has never seen it?This is something of an impossible question, so all that really offends me when discussing it is people trying to tell one another that they know better than anyone else whether God exists or not. We're all in the dark here.
Originally posted by: SirStev0
anyone know where i could watch it?
Originally posted by: SuperFungus
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
That would be all fine and well if you could actually point to any evidence that God exists. Surely, given your statement above, you should be able to provide some solid evidence that everyone in this discussion can then examine.
I won't hold my breath.
As others have pointed out not all evidence can be replicated in a petri dish or examined under a microscope. You seem to have found evidence that leads you to conclude that God does not exist or, at the very least, that God's existence is unprovable. For myself, I have found evidence of God's existence in every aspect of our lives, from the complexity of our nature to man's need for purpose and meaning in life (I'll bet that even those who claim that need for meaning is a crutch, deep down, have the same need themselves).
You give the impression that you have accumulated so much evidence that God does not exist that there is really no question in the debate and that there is no way anyone will be able to give you the evidence you ask for. I feel the same way about the amount of evidence proving God's existence.
I won't begrudge you your free agency and your right to make whatever decision you choose based off the evidence you have, even though I don't see it. Maybe you should do the same for others.
Thanks, someone gets what I was tripping over myself trying to say. My goal was to defend everyone?s right to have their beliefs treated with the dignity they deserve, one I didn't accomplish very well apparently. I can't prove one way or another on the God issue any more than anyone else, and I don't even care to try. This is something of an impossible question, so all that really offends me when discussing it is people trying to tell one another that they know better than anyone else whether God exists or not. We're all in the dark here.
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: piasabird
What exactly is wrong with Chirstianity?
Lets see. . .
People that profess to Love their neighbor as themselves, turn the other cheek, Feed the Poor, give aid the the widow and the fatherless. Sounds like a nice bunch of folks to me. After Katrina, it was the churches that provided the most help to those who needed it.
Believing in Evolution is irrelevent. What good can come from believing in evolution, which is an unprovable theory?
How did life begin? What is your theory on that?
"People that profess to Love their neighbor as themselves, turn the other cheek, Feed the Poor, give aid the the widow and the fatherless. Sounds like a nice bunch of folks to me."
If that were the actual case, it would be great!
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: shadow9d9
Originally posted by: piasabird
What exactly is wrong with Chirstianity?
Lets see. . .
People that profess to Love their neighbor as themselves, turn the other cheek, Feed the Poor, give aid the the widow and the fatherless. Sounds like a nice bunch of folks to me. After Katrina, it was the churches that provided the most help to those who needed it.
Believing in Evolution is irrelevent. What good can come from believing in evolution, which is an unprovable theory?
How did life begin? What is your theory on that?
"People that profess to Love their neighbor as themselves, turn the other cheek, Feed the Poor, give aid the the widow and the fatherless. Sounds like a nice bunch of folks to me."
If that were the actual case, it would be great!
Are you saying that there are no Christians who act in this way?
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Jesus tapdancing Christ, you both are about as obtuse as Seekermeister is.
1.) Elfear: If you actually read and comprehended what I've said, you'd realize that NOWHERE did I state that God didn't exist. It's like talking to a fscking wall trying to get through to you. Now stop misrepresenting my words and listen up for once in your life: We do not have sufficient evidence to prove God's existence one way or another. The "evidence" you offer up is not evidence at all -- it's merely your personal annecdote.
2.) SuperFungus: No one has taken your dignity away ... are you really that thin-skinned? All I asked for was EVIDENCE that God existed. So far, all I've seen out of you is the same sort of anecdotal religious experience that means nothing in the context of proving God exists.
When you say we're all in the dark here - you don't know how right you are.
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Jesus tapdancing Christ, you both are about as obtuse as Seekermeister is.
1.) Elfear: If you actually read and comprehended what I've said, you'd realize that NOWHERE did I state that God didn't exist. It's like talking to a fscking wall trying to get through to you. Now stop misrepresenting my words and listen up for once in your life: We do not have sufficient evidence to prove God's existence one way or another. The "evidence" you offer up is not evidence at all -- it's merely your personal annecdote.
2.) SuperFungus: No one has taken your dignity away ... are you really that thin-skinned? All I asked for was EVIDENCE that God existed. So far, all I've seen out of you is the same sort of anecdotal religious experience that means nothing in the context of proving God exists.
When you say we're all in the dark here - you don't know how right you are.
You seriously need to calm down. This is not a tirade against your mom or anything, it is (or was) a calm debate about evolution.
I comprehend what you're saying, that's why I stated "You seem to have found evidence that leads you to conclude that God does not exist or, at the very least, that God's existence is unprovable." You come off like you believe that there will never be sufficient evidence to prove that God exists. If I am wrong in that assumption than I apologize.
What kind of evidence are you expecting us to come up with anyway? Pictures of God? A mathematical proof that God does in fact exist? God's signature verifying that he did indeed inspire men to write the Bible (or other religious books)?
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What do you think the word "evidence" means?
Originally posted by: Crono
The question is, what evidence would it take for you to believe? Jesus said, "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.?? (Luke 16:31) If God had stamped His name on your when He made you, you still would not believe. If He signed His name in the "programming" language that makes up this universe, you still would not believe. Many of you will only believe when you see Him (if you are alive then) when you see Him returning in clouds of glory - but by then it will be too late.
"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened." - Romans 1:20-21
The fact is, you could spend your entire life - as many do - denying your sinful nature, denying that you need Christ, and arguing against His existence and deity. But in the end, all that really matters is if you truly believe on His name and accepted His gift of salvation. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.
You may consider it a joke now, but not for long. Whether you believe or not has no effect on what the truth is. Your "lack" of evidence is no excuse, nor shall you attempt to use it, because you shall learn the truth. The only question is when.You're joking, right?
Originally posted by: Elfear
As others have pointed out not all evidence can be replicated in a petri dish or examined under a microscope. You seem to have found evidence that leads you to conclude that God does not exist or, at the very least, that God's existence is unprovable. For myself, I have found evidence of God's existence in every aspect of our lives, from the complexity of our nature to man's need for purpose and meaning in life.
Originally posted by: Elfear
What kind of evidence are you expecting us to come up with anyway? Pictures of God? A mathematical proof that God does in fact exist? God's signature verifying that he did indeed inspire men to write the Bible (or other religious books)?
The truth is that those inner revelations are the only forms of proof that really matters. Yes, there is no end to the manners in which you might attempt to explain them away, but the only people that might impress, are you and those like you.Yes. There are no valid, indirect ways of detecting the existence of a god. For example some people make the ridiculous claim that they "feel" god within themselves. This claim is ridiculous, not because it is impossible, but because there are many possible natural explanations for experiencing such feelings.
Originally posted by: Elfear
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
What do you think the word "evidence" means?
I guess therein lies the point of this debate. The evidence I have that leads me to believe that God exists would be unacceptable to you. The lack of evidence as to His existence that you state is unacceptable to me. We have different ideas of what evidence means and I don't believe that evidence can only be gathered one way (i.e. using microscopes, computer analysis, etc.).
I'm fine with agreeing to disagree. What I take issue with is you stating that only agnostics are being "intellectually honest" with themselves. Just because the evidence you have gathered, as to the question of God's existence, is insufficient for you doesn't mean that others have also found the evidence lacking.
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Juddog,
You may consider it a joke now, but not for long. Whether you believe or not has no effect on what the truth is. Your "lack" of evidence is no excuse, nor shall you attempt to use it, because you shall learn the truth. The only question is when.You're joking, right?
Instead of asking for explanations, you should check a dictionary. The etomology of the word "evidence" predates that of any scientific form. If anyone is attempting to dictate linguistics, it is you.Where do you get off re-defining the word "evidence" to mean whatever the hell you think it should mean? And see? This is precisely the point Vic was making earlier, that there's no talking with you guys because there's no shared/common point of reference.
You seem to think that your feelings should count as evidence, whereas that's clearly just not the case. In other words, reality doesn't change simply because you happen to believe something.
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
blackllotus,
The truth is that those inner revelations are the only forms of proof that really matters. Yes, there is no end to the manners in which you might attempt to explain them away, but the only people that might impress, are you and those like you.Yes. There are no valid, indirect ways of detecting the existence of a god. For example some people make the ridiculous claim that they "feel" god within themselves. This claim is ridiculous, not because it is impossible, but because there are many possible natural explanations for experiencing such feelings.
As I said, you will find any number of explanations, regardless of what I say. So what is the use of trying to explain? Hallucinations may exist, but when God touches a person, it is no hallucination. Only by personal experience would you ever be able to understand.What if these "inner revelations" were just minor hallucinations? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
blackllotus,
As I said, you will find any number of explanations, regardless of what I say. So what is the use of trying to explain? Hallucinations may exist, but when God touches a person, it is no hallucination. Only by personal experience would you ever be able to understand.What if these "inner revelations" were just minor hallucinations? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
Juddog,
You may consider it a joke now, but not for long. Whether you believe or not has no effect on what the truth is. Your "lack" of evidence is no excuse, nor shall you attempt to use it, because you shall learn the truth. The only question is when.You're joking, right?
Who am I to judge? I can judge where a person is, but not where they will end up. Yes, there are many roads to heaven, but ALL of them go thru Jesus Christ.Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: Seekermeister
blackllotus,
As I said, you will find any number of explanations, regardless of what I say. So what is the use of trying to explain? Hallucinations may exist, but when God touches a person, it is no hallucination. Only by personal experience would you ever be able to understand.What if these "inner revelations" were just minor hallucinations? You wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
What about those who feel they aren't touched by a Christian God? What if it's more than one? Are they wrong? Or are there many roads to heaven?