Just wondering (american friends)

[DodgyDoug]

I dont want to start a full political debate but i wonder (and forgive me if this has been discussed in full already).

What do our american friends think about the kyoto treaty. Everyone else seems to have joined it but yourselves. Do you guys agree with this??

 

[Nevo]

I do not know enough to make a considered opinion. However, from what little I've heard about it, the economic impact of the treaty on America would be a tremendous disadvantage.

Having said that, I do think there are any number of things America and Americans can and should do to reduce pollution. Gas guzzling SUV's oughta be taxed to high heaven, for one. Americans probably need some more government incentives to conserve and recycle.

I've always wondered why those 18 wheelers seem to be exempt from any emissions regulations. I see that black cloud of smoke belching into the atmosphere each time the driver shifts gears, and can't help but wonder how much pollution those rigs throw into the air.

Of course, money talks, and much of our economy is dependent upon goods being shipped over the roads.

 

[DodgyDoug]

Of course it's going to be hard work for any economy.. I think the idea for the forseeable future is simply to get the ball rolling and show intent.

There will be no penaltys for not making the targets, so i cant really see a reason why Mr Bush would be against it.. I should be humble too and say that perhaps i am not fully informed of the situation either. It just appears strange that america is the biggest polluter in the world but doesnt seem willing to even try to make a difference..

I'm sure there are a lot of people over there that are against Mr Bush on this. I'm also pretty sure that the treaty has had no where near as much publicity over there as it has in Europe.

 

[kamiam]

<< It just appears strange that america is the biggest polluter in the world >>

I've heard that places in europe and the far east(China comes to mind) are far worse...but then again I'm no expert

 

[DodgyDoug]

From the figures thats been reported on European Tv america generates 25% of the worlds pollution. When you consider how many countries there are it does seem rather high.

I agree there are other big polluters and china is probally one of them.. But they've signed up for the treaty. Britain too has got a bad rep but being a small country we would not be classed as a major polluter. I think Britain has just been slow to implement cleaner methods of working, but at least we are movingin the right direction now.

 

[IamDavid]

I for one am glad to see Bush turn down the Kyoto Treaty. I could list a bunch of reasons myself but Neil Cavulto said everything here. Link

 

[Tominator]

Nevo
I do not mean to pick on you, but you said it!

Those 18 wheelers are by no means exempt! They are burning low sulfur fuel now and proposed regs would clean up their exhaust even more....and put many small businesses out of business because of higher cost!

Most of the black smoke you see is carbon that falls harmlessly to the ground and is washed away by rain.

Clean air and a plan based on sound scientific and economic reasoning is good......this excludes kyoto as it meets neither qualification.

 

[kamiam]

pollution, in most part is a &quot;local&quot; thing...maybe w/ the exception of air...and then it is usually filtered by rain and then it becomes local again...however thats just my opinion..might not mean much...so if you compare &quot;localities&quot; there are far worse polluters out there

 

[Jejunum]

Heres what I think (im an american) WE ARE STUIPD STUIPD STUIPD

im not some crazy eco freak but i know that we consume 50% of the energy in the world even though our population is a piddling. We think that just because we control the money we dont need to worry about the environment (it doesnt matter what happens to the earth in 100 years; ill be dead)

WAKE UP PEOPLE
we need to stop being STUIPD!!!

(me thinks ill get flamed)

 

[BartManInNZ]

I am not an American but I think old George 'W' has been reading this :
linky

And is resisting efforts to globalise 'his' piece of prime real estate

 

[DodgyDoug]

???

Item 1....Ooooh Romania.. Is that it..

Item 2....China an India 'get a pass'.. America could do the same.. At least they are trying.

Item 3....From what i understand each country will be responsible for implementing there own policies with agreed targets.

Item 4....Fuel standards best on earth... No way.. America has more MPV, Trucks etc.. All your cars have massive engines that guzzle more fuel.

Item 5....See 3.. Developing countries might get some sort of grant to help them along the right lines.

Please beleive me. I'm not knocking america but a country of that size and with the knowledege and technology could really make a differance.

 

[kamiam]

<< but i know that we consume 50% >>

your close... I believe the figure is more like 25 percent

 

[PistachioByAzul]

we need to stop being STUIPD!!!

I'll stop as soon as you do.

 

[PistachioByAzul]

The Kyoto treaty is a joke, just more feel good policy. We still don't know whether or not human pollution contributes to global warming or not. The Kyoto treaty is just a subversive way to undermine American industrial dominance.

 

[DodgyDoug]

Besides i think that article was designed to provoke a reesponse from it's readers.

 

[BartManInNZ]

Global warming is the whole basis for this policy/protocol/Political BS - but if global warming does not exist then why all the fuss?

 

[gopunk]

<< The Kyoto treaty is a joke, just more feel good policy. We still don't know whether or not human pollution contributes to global warming or not. The Kyoto treaty is just a subversive way to undermine American industrial dominance. >>


don't flame me, i'm just not up to date in current economics, but does america have industrial dominance? i mean, i can't think of many things america manufactures that other countries don't manufacture more of.

 

[kamiam]

actually scientists studying the antarctic glaciers have come to realize that this global warming/ice age thing has been going on for thousands of years and seems to be a &quot;pattern&quot; climate thing...just part of nature...or so it was told in the documentary I watched on the discovery channel

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

95% of all greenhouse gasses are produced by nature, aka Volcanos. Each time a volcano errupts it releases more pollution(Carbon Dioxide specifically)than humans produce in 50 years. US reducing emmissions by less than .5%(and ONLY the US) in ten years wont change anything, unless youre a logic-handicapped liberal. And ONLY Romania has ratafied Kyoto, so dont sit there and claim the US is the only not supporting it.

Use your brain people, use youre brain...

 

[kamiam]

HelloDeli
I believe you as it strenghtens my previous post, however for the naysayers here can you post a link for this???

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

I dont have an article on the web at my fingertips, its in a book I have on Vulcanology.
Volcano Cowboys

Here are a few interesting links though about Volcanic Pollution.
CO2 Killing trees in California
SO2 Dangers in Hawaii and Acid Rain

 

[Moonbender]

I'm just doing some reading to prove/disprove my current opinions on this topic, and while reading, I found the following article:

<quote>
Anything else that could shield us from global warming?
Yes, volcanoes. When Mount Pinatubo erupted in June 1991, it threw a huge amount of debris into the stratosphere that partially shielded the surface of the Earth from incoming solar energy. Sulphate particles ejected from the volcano were particularly effective at scattering the sunlight. Computer models successfully predicted that in the short term, the debris would temporarily cool the Earth's atmosphere. The models also predicted that as the volcanic debris cleared in 1992 and 1993, average temperatures would swiftly return first to the level of the 1980s, and then, by the middle of the 1990s, to the slightly higher levels that would be expected with the ongoing build-up of greenhouse gases.
</quote>

 

[CrazyHelloDeli]

Bah double post...

 

[Moonbender]

For some reason HelloDeli removed a third link which was originally included in his post: http://hvo.wr.usgs.gov/volcanowatch/1998/98_10_22.html

On the site there's the following statement:
On the Big Island, we have a significant natural source of greenhouse gas. Kilauea volcano emits more than 700,000 tons of CO2 each year, less than 0.01% of the yearly global contribution by human sources.
For some local perspective, this is about the same amount of CO2 as is emitted by 132,000 sport utility vehicles (there are 118,000 registered vehicles on the island).

The way I interpret this, the volcano emits only a relatively small amount of CO2 each year. I'm still curious if there's any scientific source that backs up the earlier statement: &quot;95% of all greenhouse gasses are produced by nature, aka Volcanos.&quot;

(edit: added a forgotten &quot;small&quot; )

 

[Czar]

When the temperture on earth rises the poles start to melt, fresh water goes to the sea and hot water from the mexico bay does not go north and even earths heat. After that the poles start to build up again faster than ever. Thats why more heat brings ice age.
This takes... quite some time.... longer than we will notice in one life time.