K7S5A - getting desperate

[AxemanFU]

I had a nice reliable pIII 815E mobo comination, but got wooed by the ECS K7S5A and athlon XP combo at FRY's and did the upgrade. New HDD , new install of win98SE, reinstalled all patches and updates, got the system to boot into win98, ect. I built this machine to run UT and Unreal 2, but I am having a definitel problem: In UT, my usb mouse stops working within about 30 seconds of starting the game. When I try a PS2 mouse, it works for a few minutes, then starts this wonderful intermittent 3 second freeze and go thing..and then crashes after about 30 secs. After having many a nice stable intel system, my first AMD system is starting to piss me off. I love the power and proce of this XP 1700+, but the damn board is driving me nuts. I found 1 post on SIS's BBS about the same problem, with no solution posted. I am using the win98 provided HID usb drivers for the mouse, as the logitech drivers for my mouse have never worked properly with UT. I am giving this board 2 more days, and then it is return for a KT266A. If someone can help me, I might just keep it.

 

[Informant X]

Did ya try getting the latest UT patch?

 

[AxemanFU]

heh. I think i saw that clan. I am Axeman[FU] of forge united , www.thefuclan.com. I was also in our BOM, |S| and KiA subclans.

I am running UT 4.36, and never had this problem with my msi 815e pro and pIII 933, with the same mouse...

 

[Informant X]

Yea my clan is the ish...Were or are number one in a buncha ladders over on ogl. We're pure/harsh/complete ownage. Anywho that's a weird problem. The whole system freezes? I assume your running D3D. Do you have the latest version of DX? If so try other versions...I think one of them created this problem among some people. Good luck!

 

[Endless]

What BIOS level is your K7S5A at? I have heard that the latest BIOS has fixed a few issues for a few people....but I haven't heard of this particular one.

Have you tried disabling any onboard devices that you are not using(ie. onboard serial ports and onboard sound)? I had to disable the onboard sound (onboard midi port) to get my Promise Ultra100 TX2 controller to work. Also, you may want to ensure that ACPI is enabled in the BIOS.

 

[joe4324]

I'm having quite a bit of trouble here understanding exactly how you "know" its the motherboard...

Did you disable everything in the bios that you arent using?
Did you get the latest mobo drivers?
Did you get the latest drivers for the mouse?
Did you get the latest Win98se updates Specifically checking for mouse updates?
Did you Check to make sure you have an adequate power supply? (this is a completely different beast then your old PIII)
Did you try running in failsafe in the bios?
Did you try to go into safe mode to see if there are more then mice installed that could be fighting for resources?
Did you try to use a different usb mouse all together?
Did you try the OTHER usb port?

This is just the start....

Have you even considered that this is UT giving you a fit? it sounds as if this problem ONLY occurs when your playing UT. you know if I had a complete system that seemed to work perfectly but started screwing up when I play game. and only that game I'd look at that first. I bet theres NOTHING wrong with your hardware.... Try a different game based on the UT engine and see what happens. then try somthing based on the Q3 engine. if you can play quake flawlessly then your looking in the wrong place for your problem.

"I am giving this board 2 more days, and then it is return for a KT266A. "
Patience is a virtue....

 

[AxemanFU]

I disabled everything but the serial and parallel ports in the BIOS.
The bios page at ECS listing the fixes does not mention anything about fixing USB or PS2 mouse issues, and they do work most of the time.
I need to check for mouse or usb specific updates for 98SE at the microsoft site, but have the latest win98SE general updates and SP
I am only using 1 SDRAM dimm, 256mb Micron PC133.
I have an AMD recommended enlight 340 watt PS.
Epic has not released any specific UT patches beyond V 4.36, and I built this system to run UT, so I won't base solutions off of not using UT.
I can't use the Logitech drivers because of a well known issue with UT and Logitech's center button loosing it's multifunction capability, though I can try them once to see what happens
I have 2 other USB mice I can try , but this is not likely to change things since I am using the default MS USB drivers. I have a USB hub, but do need to try the ports on the PC itself. Win98 is reporting no USB conflicts or powering problems. My PS2 mouse does not work in UT properly either, making me suspicious it is not a usb problem. I also had some minor sound problems in UT.
The machine appears to work flawlessly outside of directX apps. (I have 8.1 loaded) When I was running 3Dmark2001 and UT before I removed my second micron DIMM (identical to the first), and upgraded the PS, the thing would always crash in both apps. With the second stick removed and the PS upgraded, 3Dmark ran fine, and UT worked mostly, but I am still having this mouse problem, and the sound seems kind of messed up too. I'll look for IRQ conflicts next, but none are apparent with my first cursory check. I will install RTCW using OpenGL to see if there may be similar problems with OpenGL apps.

I have heard that XP may fix a number of problems with this board, amking me suspect that a combination of old drivers and the way win98SE configures the system is responsible for the bug, but I am going broke trying to work out this bug, and buying the XP upgrade just to have it fail to solve my problem would just about break the bank. Maybe Microsoft has a usb or mouse driver fix, as SIS and ECS have nothing to help.

I have about 10 days to return the thing or I am stuck with it, so I am having to rush to find a fix. THanks for any advice.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

what are your CPU and system temps? also, what HS/F combo do you have? Did you use ASII? I'm just trying to determine if it's heat related since it sounds like the lock ups happen when you stress the system.

 

[joe4324]

Good info axemanfu, Post your results here after you try all these things. I am very curious to see what happens when you unplug all usb devices except for the mouse and put that into the back of the pc, and if that doesnt help UT, just see what an OpenGL game does.

keep us informed.

 

[ChiefWiggum]

The K7S5A can be a problematic board. Either you love it or hate it.

I built a friend a new system (1.4GHz Athlon, ECS K7S5A and 512 DDR). His runs absolutely perfect. I built the same system for myself. I have had weird problems since I've built it in September. We ordered at the same time from the same vendor.

My first geuss would be to check the grounding of your motherboard. Make sure there aren't any shorts or contacts to the metal computer case. Look especially at the faceplate for all the ports. Make sure it's properly inserted and flat. Not bent or bowed and in contact with the mobo. Put an anti-stat pad under the mobo when you remount it.

That should help.

I could not use one of my 2 USB ports. One would work fine. But if I plugged a joystick or a camera into the second the computer would crash.

Finally last week, I lost my 2nd IDE channel (DVD and CD/RW) for the umpteenth time. (It always comes back after a few leaving the computer be overnight.) I got so disgusted, I ordered an MSI K7T266A Pro2-RU motherboard. Sure it was more expensive and it does not have a built in NIC; but- it's stable and a lot faster than my other board.

I do have a feeling though that the board would not give anyone else any problems. You know, just my PARTICULAR components it hated!

Anyways, good luck. Keep plugging away, but don't be upset if you have to admit defeat and get a different motherboard!

ps. If anyone would like to purchase a used (with box) K7S5A, drop me an email @ radio1_mike@yahoo.com.

 

[AxemanFU]

I haven't gotten back home from work yet, so I don't have any results to report yet, but here is more info:

I am using a Thermaltake volcano 6cu+ with a 7000 rpm fan, which is an athlon XP recommended heatsink, with a very small amount of paste shipped with the heatsink. My worst PROC temps I have seen are around 45C, kinda high, but not abnormally so. My system temp is usually between 32 and 38F, depending on how cool my computer room is. Right now I have the side panel off so i can work on it, so it should be relatively cool. I might try running Unreal (the original version) to see if that will work.

I also tried searching the microsoft website for possible solutions, and found some info on fixing MS mouse bugs, but not mice from other companies. I did not find updated USB drivers for win98SE. Also, the logitech website offered some limited information about general bug fixes, but nothing that would help. The only specific patches it references are for ViA chipsets. I'm going to try again tonight, but that $99 Epox 8KHA+ at Fry's is looking better and better.

 

[Tummy]

The k7s5a requires > 3.3v vio (for the sdram) for it to work properly. Your 2 sdram dimm problem is I bet related to that, although with 1 dimm in it's hard to say. Check your readings on this line and if it's < 3.3V, you need to raise it somehow.

 

[AxemanFU]

I am getting 3.33v for the 3.3v lead.
I have now tried all mouse settings in UT..no luck
I have removed my USB hub, and tried a logitech optical mouse and a microsoft optical usb mouse in the usb ports of the mobo itself...the mouse (and even the keyboard sometimes now!) stop responding after 30 secs to 2 minutes into the game.
I have disabled all the devices and ports on the mobo I am not using...no luck
I have tried a Ps2 mouse again..which worked for about 5 minutes...and then UT started freezing up and the keyboard stopped working, and once, the screen went black.
All my voltages are dead on. This enlight 340 watt PS is a pretty reliable model with good power for each voltage level when I check the volt readings...
The highest I have seen the temps go is about 47C....and it was running about 45C after runnning UT for a few minutes...

Next: I am going to remove my SBlive card and test, then I will try unreal1 or half life under D3D to see what goes down.... I am running out of things in my experience that can cause instability.....

 

[AxemanFU]

OK, now my machine jsut shut itself down in the middle of posting to another BBS...just blip......"it is now ok for you to shut down your computer" ARGH!!!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

what vid card are you using? Perhaps there is a driver conflict or USB driver issue. Are you using MS or SiS USB drivers?

 

[AxemanFU]

I am using the SIS usb drivers that load with win98SE. I checked the SIS and ECS sites for specific hardware drivers, but it appears that ECS and SIS have not felt the need to provide updates for the drivers after they shipped with win98SE. The CD rom that comes with the board only has video, sound, and LAN drivers specific to the board, and I did install the SIS AGP VxD as recommended. It was still flaking out, and appeared to be getting worse, even after all the work I did that should have added to the stability. I ended up not trying to flash the BIOS, as the listed fixes for each BIOS version above the one I had did not appear to affect any hardware or setting that would cause the type of problems I am having. I didnt' want to risk killing the board right before I have to return it. I would have liked to try longer, but I need to get back up and running with a more reliable system that can take more abuse. (My celeron "550" backup machine is annoyingly slow and my PIII 933 and mobo are homeless for the moment....).I don't like to have to work so hard to tweak a system and know I am not getting the board's best performance because I had to make so many compromises and do so many workarounds. I was tempted to try a P4 and 845 or SIS DDR board, but the cost is more than I can afford. Thanks for the advice. I'll post a followup when I install the new board.

 

[AxemanFU]

Oh yeah, i am using a pretty generic MSI 822? Geforce2 GTS 32MB vid card. The latest directX 8.1, and the lastest general release of the detonator XP drivers. The vid card does not seem to be having memory address or interrupt conflicts with any other devices. Yanking out the sound card did not help either...

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Have you scouted the video forum for help yet? I've been seeing many reports of instability issues with the 23.11 drivers,especially using 9X and ME O.S., and I also read that switching back to 12.XX or 14.XX series offers better stability for older G2 cards when using an older O.S. I had an Xtasy G2 GTS in my K7S5A with a 1.4 T-Bird and an Logitech optical USB wheelmouse and had no issues using the 12.41 drivers so Perhaps you should seriously consider older detonators. I'm still waiting to see how others make out with the 23.12 WHQL certified drivers so I can't comment on those.

 

[Amber]

I also went from a very nice 815E MOB to an AMD,BUT I want for the MSI K7T266 Pro2,and this is the BEST thing I ever DID for U/T (I play that 5 hours a day) the EPOX 266A MOB is also a good way to go
if I were you I would send that MOB back (RUN DON'T WALK TO THE MAIL),you NEED a 266A mob!!
have you play Unreal Gold

 

[KurtD]

Forgive if I'm missing something, but I don't see where you mentioned having problems outside of UT. If your other apps are running ok, then I doubt the MB or bios settings (except maybe AGP & memory) are the problem. What happens in UT when you run it in UT's safe mode? Did you disable directinput for the mouse in UT? Maybe check some of the advanced settings and fiddle with them? BTW, I had all kinds of problems with the detonator xp drivers, inculding instability in UT (GF Pro, A7V, 750 tbird). You might want to go to an earlier, safer, version. Did you check for conflicts in Win98? Sorry you're having so much trouble...

 

[BADONE]

Did you install the Microsoft USB VIA Patch?

 

[Duvie]

< Did you install the Microsoft USB VIA Patch? >

Why would he the ECS K7S5a runs the sis chipset not the via chipset...different company altogether...



I also agree blaming the board when it has problems in one game is a new one for me...There are tons of usb issues out there as well as video card driver issues, etc...

List all drivers you are running and list entire irq settings of your setup....

 

[AxemanFU]

I'm not blaming the hardware motherboard itself as much as the drivers that go with it and win98SE's support for the board. The board and it's drivers are, however, the only significant "new" part of my system that are likely to be conflicting with my existing hardware.

It is very likely the microsoft provided SIS hardware drivers and having conflicts with UT and my SBLive soundcard and pherhaps the mouse drivers or DirectX8.1 or Detonator XP drivers. I was having 3 main problems in the end:

1. Both ps2 and USB mice locking up in UT
2. Sound from SBLive cutting in and out in UT
3. PC shut itself off at random once (and it was not likely a cooling or power issue, I checked)

There is no upgrade to UT beyond 4.36 , though I did look for known issues at several UT sites and BBS. I did not end up trying another D3D title, mostly because I determined that I could afford a KT266A board and DDR ram stick and I was running out of time where I could exchange the board. I tried all the mouse settings in UT that were available, and even checked my ut.ini and user.ini files for errors. SIS (and ECS) still use the default win98SE drivers that microsoft provides as drivers for the motherboard, and I checked for Microsoft updates. There were none that I could find, which left me to have to upgrade to win2000 or winXP to get more recent drivers, something I did not want to do, but which might have worked. So I had pretty much eliminated the option of upgrading motherboard drivers under win98SE. I also looked for mouse drivers and mouse bug fixes related to the problem I was having and found neither at both Logitech and MS websites. I also had thought about trying older Geforce drivers or going back to directx*, but decided that I was having to go through more trouble to get this board to run UT than the savings and down time I was having were worth to me. If i did upgrades or changes in the future, I did not want to worry about fixing all the same bugs and stuff. I don't want to pay good money to spend a week or two working out bugs..my hobby is gaming, not troubleshooting hardware and driver issues. The primary reason for this upgrade for me was to give my machine more life running UT and upcoming Unreal2 and such, and a PC that can't run UT is no good to me.

It is likely I could have gotten the mouse working in UT eventually, but not certain. I did, however, see 5 more opened K7S5A in a stack at the returns desk of the store I got it from, which makes me wonder if it was a lot of bad boards or something.

I ended up biting the bullet, admitted defeat (or lack of patience), and found a lovely EPox 8KHA+ for $99, and am now installing it in my system. Im not finished installing drivers and software, but will post followup tonight. I expect that this board, which has gotten excellent reviews, will work just fine.

As a side note, I have a UT Clan mate that has a system built with a K7S5A that works just fine, but we have fairly different hardware and he is using win2000 Pro.

 

[KurtD]

 

[KurtD]

Sounds like you've covered all the bases. I have been considering the K7S5A as an upgrade path to an XP processor and DDR. I currently have an A7V with a Tbird 750 and 512mb of CAS2 ram. The K7S5A is appealing since I can upgrade the MB and keep my current CPU and ram (I don't OC). I can then add the XP CPU and DDR later, when I have the cash. I also plan to upgrade from Win98SE to 2000pro. Sounds like I will be safe with Win2000 and this MB...My machine is used for both business and gaming, with the gaming spent mainly in UT, so I sure don't want to be in the same boat.