K8L?

[GDaddy]

With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

 

[Lonyo]

I'll take a stab at no, especially if Intel manage quad core before the year is up.

 

[DeathReborn]

Not much is known about K8L but I don't think it will be enough based on what we do know.

 

[broly8877]

I'm also gonna go with no.

Surpass Intel's current offerings? I'm gonna give AMD the credit they deserve and say yes, easily.

But in 2008 (when desktop offerings are planned/rumored to be available), Intel will have 45nm/Octo-Core chips, and a brand new architecture (Nehalem).

 

[GDaddy]

And i dont think they can stand a price war with Intel with slower processors. Do you think with thier recnt expansion they will end up imploding?

 

[Aluvus]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

It's going to be rough sailing for AMD, even assuming the K8L microarch. is substantially better than expected. I don't see K8L helping them out enormously.

K9 was supposedly skipped, such that K10 will be next.

 

[Maximilian]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

Ill also take a stab and say no, and if i see your lost dog ill give you a call

Seriously though, the K9 was either scrapped or renamed K10, likely due to the confusion with canine.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

If they can pull K8L into '07 and if Intel stumbles then they could be OK.

However I don't see Intel stumbling after the beating they've taken. (especially with Otellini at the helm.)

However AMD worries me. They're prancing around and flirting with ATI, talking about new Fab sites, etc. It's like they're loosing focus and focus is what they need right now.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: Henny
However I don't see Intel stumbling after the beating they've taken. (especially with Otellini at the helm.)

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Intel has a tendency to get cocky and they might forget about AMD while basking in the Conroe glory. There's no telling what's going to happen, though.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: Henny
However I don't see Intel stumbling after the beating they've taken. (especially with Otellini at the helm.)

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Intel has a tendency to get cocky and they might forget about AMD while basking in the Conroe glory. There's no telling what's going to happen, though.

I don't see them doing any of that, not the way they are going. Pushing up Kentsfield? Launching Merom along with Conroe? Intel has a good thing going here and I think Otellini easily sees that. Pat Geslinger just about vowed that Intel would strive for a new architecture every two years. Believe me, after these last few years, Intel certainly is NOT going to just forget about AMD.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: Henny
However I don't see Intel stumbling after the beating they've taken. (especially with Otellini at the helm.)

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Intel has a tendency to get cocky and they might forget about AMD while basking in the Conroe glory. There's no telling what's going to happen, though.

When it comes to Intel, that's always a distinct possibility. Survival is embedded into AMD's culture. Complacency is always part of Intel's culture. It goes from dormant to active depending on the stock price.

 

[sonoran]

Originally posted by: Aflac
Intel has a tendency to get cocky and they might forget about AMD while basking in the Conroe glory. There's no telling what's going to happen, though.

Of course I can't divulge what Otellini said in his webcast to employees yesterday - but I can assure you I did NOT hear him say we can now kick back and rest on our laurels with Conroe.

* Not speaking for Intel Corp *

 

[Stoneburner]

of course he didnt say that but he meant it

in all seriousness, who knows? AMD's not as open with their plans as intel. Nobody seems to have any idea when k8l is coming yet anyway even thought the last i heard was first half 2007. As for intel's new architecture, I dont buy it nehalem will probably be to conroe what prescott was to the northwoods. Somebody on this board with inside knowledge seems to think k8l will be rather powerful but he can't divulge what he's basing it on. Personally I think transmeta is gonna catch amd and intel both napping...

 

[Hard Ball]

Originally posted by: Henny

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

If they can pull K8L into '07 and if Intel stumbles then they could be OK.

K8L has always been scheduled to launch in 07, at the end of Q2; and it may be pulled earlier, if the fabrication transitions go well.

AM3 processors, however, are scheduled to launch in Q1 08; but could be pulled up in schedule. AMD is readying the successor to 4x4, with a platform named 8x8, which will be out in 07, with two quad core chips. That however, will only be available with ultra-highend pricing.

However I don't see Intel stumbling after the beating they've taken. (especially with Otellini at the helm.)

However AMD worries me. They're prancing around and flirting with ATI, talking about new Fab sites, etc. It's like they're loosing focus and focus is what they need right now.

I don't really see that happening.

Any K8L that will come out in the first, the first 1-2 Quarters will probably be limted to Server/Workstation, and possibly high end enthusiast (i.e. FX successor) CPUs, and given that Fab36 will only be substantially converted into 65nm by the middle of 07. The volumes just aren't there for K8L to be available for general desktop purchase until later in the year. They will be volume constrained on K8L throughout 07, so the most logical choice would be to sell these in the highest margin segments.

Fab 38 won't be able to pump out 45nm chips at a minimum 3 years from now. And Luther Forest is even further down the road (likely to start at 32nm). So for the time being of 65nm, they will largely be supported by the output of Fab36, and Fab7 of Chartered. That's probably not going to threaten Intel's market position on consumer volume chips any time soon.

 

[Regs]

I believe there was an interview with one of the AMD executives a month back talking about an architecture built new from the ground up. People have labeled this the K10 as everybody agreed that the K9 would sound...funny. Rumor has its release in 2008 but who knows. For the time being K8L in 07 will be the short term gap plugger. Though we know relatively little about the upcoming processors for AMD and what they will offer. The "K10"s release will likely be based on K8L's success and the maturity of the 65nm manufacturing process.

 

[Blazin Trav]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
And i dont think they can stand a price war with Intel with slower processors. Do you think with thier recnt expansion they will end up imploding?

I think you are an Intel fanboy.

 

[Pederv]

I think Intel is basically laying out its processor lineup for each platform. When conroe gets released there will probally be enough available to satisfy the initial rush, then it will be waiting for backorders to get filled. As production increases, the cream will be scimmed and used to launch the laptop platform, while the desktop market can't keep up with demand. As production continues to increase, the best of the cream is taken and used to make the quad cores. So unless Intel is considerably ahead of schedule, 25% total production (by the end of the year) isn't going to satisfy the demand for the most sought after CPU for all platforms. If Intel wasn't pricing thier CPU's to push AMD out of the market, they should have marked down thier current available products and charged more for Conroe. Then as Conroe production increased, reduce it's price. That would probably reduce Conroe shortages and clean out old inventory quicker. At the same time Intel would make more money.

What may affect AMD's actual price drops is Intels ability to maintain supply. The same aplies for AMD's need of K8L. If a dual Cloverton? can beat a 4 processor-dual core Opteron, AMD will push a little harder to get the quad core Opterons out.

 

[meksta]

the K8L is the K9...their next generation chip and not merely an enhancement to K8. Then the one after K8L will be K10.

 

[GDaddy]

Originally posted by: Blazin Trav

Originally posted by: GDaddy
And i dont think they can stand a price war with Intel with slower processors. Do you think with thier recnt expansion they will end up imploding?

I think you are an Intel fanboy.

Running an AMD X2 4400, i will buy what i believe is the best bang for the buck, intel/amd it does not matter to me.

But you must be an AMD fanboy, because only one who is will decide everyone is one.

 

[Henny]

Originally posted by: Pederv
I think Intel is basically laying out its processor lineup for each platform. When conroe gets released there will probally be enough available to satisfy the initial rush, then it will be waiting for backorders to get filled. As production increases, the cream will be scimmed and used to launch the laptop platform, while the desktop market can't keep up with demand. As production continues to increase, the best of the cream is taken and used to make the quad cores. So unless Intel is considerably ahead of schedule, 25% total production (by the end of the year) isn't going to satisfy the demand for the most sought after CPU for all platforms. If Intel wasn't pricing thier CPU's to push AMD out of the market, they should have marked down thier current available products and charged more for Conroe. Then as Conroe production increased, reduce it's price. That would probably reduce Conroe shortages and clean out old inventory quicker. At the same time Intel would make more money.

What may affect AMD's actual price drops is Intels ability to maintain supply. The same aplies for AMD's need of K8L. If a dual Cloverton? can beat a 4 processor-dual core Opteron, AMD will push a little harder to get the quad core Opterons out.

We're not talking cream. We're talking about silicon based CPU's with specific designs.
Conroe = DT, Merom = Mobile, Woodcrest = Server.

What people on these forums tend to ignore is that the masses buy value based PC's that will be based on Celerons, older Pentium's etc.

I'm sure Intel salivates at the thought of a high end only market consisting of C2D's, but it won't happen.

Intel has publiclly stated that it has three 300mm/65nm factories producing C2D's. I don't think supply is an issue.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

With the improvements we've seen talked about so far (double the FP, faster HT, large L3, etc...), it should perform significantly better (meaning 5-10%) than Conroe, and at lower power.
The AMD motherboards will be less expensive as well when the Intel dual FSB chipsets come out, because the DFSB boards require many more layers to accomodate the traces.
The native quad core (as opposed to the MCM packaged QC) from AMD will be shipping by mid 2007 according to AMD's CC, and they also were very cryptic about not "making comments on what architectual changes will occur at the end of the year".

As Hard Ball indicates, K8L has always been an H1 07 chip...the question is which part of H1.

 

[zsdersw]

Performing better than Conroe would be a relatively easy thing to conclude if Conroe's clock speeds at launch are all there is to be. They're not. At this point, it's not reasonable to come to any conclusions about K8L's performance against Conroe.

 

[Viditor]

Originally posted by: zsdersw
Performing better than Conroe would be a relatively easy thing to conclude if Conroe's clock speeds at launch are all there is to be. They're not. At this point, it's not reasonable to come to any conclusions about K8L's performance against Conroe.

Agreed...both AMD and Intel are planning big clockspeed increases. And I agree that we can't draw conclusions based on rumours and partial information.

 

[Hard Ball]

Originally posted by: Regs
I believe there was an interview with one of the AMD executives a month back talking about an architecture built new from the ground up. People have labeled this the K10 as everybody agreed that the K9 would sound...funny. Rumor has its release in 2008 but who knows. For the time being K8L in 07 will be the short term gap plugger. Though we know relatively little about the upcoming processors for AMD and what they will offer. The "K10"s release will likely be based on K8L's success and the maturity of the 65nm manufacturing process.

If I remember correctly, the question posed from the Digitimes interview was about processor roadmap "3-4 years down the road", which would likely mean 2009 for the new uarchitecture from ground up, more likely towards the end of the year, or early 2010. It will still be a while, and will probably be released about 1 year to 18 months after Nehalem. This early, schedule for both Nehalem and AMD's NGMA could change quite a bit; so it's kind of early to count on anything yet.

Originally posted by: Viditor

Originally posted by: zsdersw
Performing better than Conroe would be a relatively easy thing to conclude if Conroe's clock speeds at launch are all there is to be. They're not. At this point, it's not reasonable to come to any conclusions about K8L's performance against Conroe.

Agreed...both AMD and Intel are planning big clockspeed increases. And I agree that we can't draw conclusions based on rumours and partial information.

No, you cannot, because we really have no idea about either company's clock speed releases at the middle of next year; and I suspect Intel and AMD themselves don't really know that yet either. But we can reasonably predict the probable IPC of each uarchitecture, based on the feature set in the released information. Of course, there is still a lot of room for deviation from the current predictions based on current information; and a lot more may still be yet to come. Some of it, actually maybe coming on Aug 1st, when Socket F is officially christened; we will wait and see if we can glean a lot of useful info from there.

 

[sonoma1993]

Originally posted by: Soviet

Originally posted by: GDaddy
With all of what Intel is coming out with now, and also thier future plans are moving up, will the K8L be enough? And anyone hear anything on a K9?

Ill also take a stab and say no, and if i see your lost dog ill give you a call

Seriously though, the K9 was either scrapped or renamed K10, likely due to the confusion with canine.

I read awhile back, k9 was refer to the athlon 64 x2 dual core processors. I could be wrong though.