Kabini Rumors

[dbcoopernz]

Details of an Acer touchscreen notebook with a temash APU:

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...lla:en-GB:official&biw=1489&bih=754&tbs=qdr:d

 

[CTho9305]

Ok I would have a question, even thread related:

Can you please explain what "core macro" means here? I totally have no clue, what that could be. I mean I know what a "macro" in general is, but in that context of chip design? I searched the thread for "macro" and there were no hits, so I hope the question was not answered before.

thanks a lot

SF

Macro is AMD-speak; other companies use different names; this slide just considers macros inside the core (or L2). In general, "macro" means a block built from things other than ordinary standard cells, then packaged up in a way that hides the internals. In particular, they can be things like SRAMs, ROMs, clock logic, PLLs, or PHYs - structures which depend on detailed analog behavior of transitors. Most of the logic in a core is built from standard cells that can be treated as purely digital, so you build e.g. a CPU core in tools that live in the pure-digital world, and package up any more complex circuitry into black boxes that present a digital external interface and hide the analog complexity inside. The two images in the slide you posted show the CPU core the way the digital world sees it - note how the caches are just empty boxes, whereas die photos show structure inside of them.

The only reason anyone would care how many unique macros there are is manpower: it might take 2 engineers to do the standard cell design for a block like the core, but each macro might take another 1-2 engineers.

 

[NTMBK]

The only reason anyone would care how many unique macros there are is manpower: it might take 2 engineers to do the standard cell design for a block like the core, but each macro might take another 1-2 engineers.

I think AMD was considering it from the point of view of portability. Each macro needs to be redone for every new process, so the fewer macros there are the more expensive it is to port the design to a new process. Jaguar has fewer macros, so it is easier to port to new processes.

 

[Homeles]

I think AMD was considering it from the point of view of portability. Each macro needs to be redone for every new process, so the fewer macros there are the more expensive it is to port the design to a new process. Jaguar has fewer macros, so it is easier to port to new processes.

This is correct. I believe they stated this at Hot Chips 2012.

 

[AtenRa]

Macro is AMD-speak; other companies use different names; this slide just considers macros inside the core (or L2). In general, "macro" means a block built from things other than ordinary standard cells, then packaged up in a way that hides the internals. In particular, they can be things like SRAMs, ROMs, clock logic, PLLs, or PHYs - structures which depend on detailed analog behavior of transitors. Most of the logic in a core is built from standard cells that can be treated as purely digital, so you build e.g. a CPU core in tools that live in the pure-digital world, and package up any more complex circuitry into black boxes that present a digital external interface and hide the analog complexity inside. The two images in the slide you posted show the CPU core the way the digital world sees it - note how the caches are just empty boxes, whereas die photos show structure inside of them.

The only reason anyone would care how many unique macros there are is manpower: it might take 2 engineers to do the standard cell design for a block like the core, but each macro might take another 1-2 engineers.

We could say that Macro-blocks are like "Lego Brisks", when you needed 7 different Lego Bricks to make Bobcat, you can make Jaguar using only three. And as you have correctly said, you need less manpower, resources and money spend to create each block thus you spend less/faster to make the jaguar core.

 

[sequoia464]

Details of an Acer touchscreen notebook with a temash APU:

http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...lla:en-GB:official&biw=1489&bih=754&tbs=qdr:d

Thanks for the link, information on anything Temash is as elusive as, well, DBCooper himself.

 

[bgt]

Details of an Acer touchscreen notebook with a temash APU:http://translate.google.co.uk/trans...lla:en-GB:official&biw=1489&bih=754&tbs=qdr:d

Nice, waiting for a Temash tablet:thumbsup:

 

[Vesku]

"Separately, AMD demonstrated AMD A6 “Kabini”-based reference design (developed by Wistron) of a convertible notebook-tablet. Even though A6 “Kabini” (four Jaguar x86 cores, Radeon HD 7000-class graphics engine) will belong to low-power/entry-level family of solutions, the convertible with the APU inside could easily run Torchlight II video game in 1920*1080 resolution at around 25fps in DirectX 11 mode. "

I think it's actually A6 (Quad) "Temash" they are talking about.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile...esigns_Demos_Temash_and_Kabini_in_Action.html

 

[Enigmoid]

"Separately, AMD demonstrated AMD A6 “Kabini”-based reference design (developed by Wistron) of a convertible notebook-tablet. Even though A6 “Kabini” (four Jaguar x86 cores, Radeon HD 7000-class graphics engine) will belong to low-power/entry-level family of solutions, the convertible with the APU inside could easily run Torchlight II video game in 1920*1080 resolution at around 25fps in DirectX 11 mode. "

I think it's actually A6 (Quad) "Temash" they are talking about.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/mobile...esigns_Demos_Temash_and_Kabini_in_Action.html

I think that torchlight 2 runs very well (substantially better the 25 fps 1080p low) on the hd 4000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ98GkyUmcE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieJiJKkAwvo

This game look playable on Arrandale graphics

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY3hX8ei9nA

(720p highish fps 51).

AMD really pulled a scam running a much more powerful apu (was it 25 watts?) against a mobile atom class tablet (2-5 watts) with subpar graphics.

Better comparison would be against a ULV ivy (though that would obviously more expensive).

 

[Vesku]

A6 Temash, so somewhere in the 5W neighborhood although they don't say whether the test was run in a docked tablet mode where it turbos highest.

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/...convertible_tablets_with_unreleased_APUs.html

 

[Enigmoid]

A6 Temash, so somewhere in the 5W neighborhood although they don't say whether the test was run in a docked tablet mode where it turbos highest.

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/...convertible_tablets_with_unreleased_APUs.html

Was it? Thanks didn't know. I thought it was one of the higher clocked quad core chips. Definitely very nice.

 

[erunion]

hmm..pretty sure that dockable temash ran at 9w, 15w when docked.

You can't blame AMD for comparing against a current intel product. But that's not the landscape Temash is going to have to compete against when it launches.

 

[Vesku]

I don't think undocked mode would be 9Watts:

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2013/...convertible_tablets_with_unreleased_APUs.html

http://translate.google.com/transla...6597-amd-temash-specifikationer-och-prestanda

 

[Abwx]

hmm..pretty sure that dockable temash ran at 9w, 15w when docked.

You can't blame AMD for comparing against a current intel product. But that's not the landscape Temash is going to have to compete against when it launches.

I wonder why people keep insisting inflating the numbers even
they were posted ad nauseam by there and repeated to death..

Quadcore dockable Temash is 5.9W for the SoC and 8W for the
whole plateform including the screen at 100nits , dual core SoC
TDP is 3.6W.

http://technewspedia.com/amd-confirms-the-launch-of-its-apu-temash-and-kabini-in-early-2013/

 

[Blitzvogel]

I don’t know if this has been shown before,

It does confirm 128 Radeon Cores and most probable 64bit memory

AMD Kabini(Jaguar Quad Core) die picture

AMD Ontario(BobCat Dual Core) Die Picture

I'm all sticky now.

Thanks for that :sneaky:

Is it 128 Radeon Cores for dual core parts? And are the dual cores gonna be binned?

 

[erunion]

I wonder why people keep insisting inflating the numbers even
they were posted ad nauseam by there and repeated to death..

Quadcore dockable Temash is 5.9W for the SoC and 8W for the
whole plateform including the screen at 100nits , dual core SoC
TDP is 3.6W.

http://technewspedia.com/amd-confirms-the-launch-of-its-apu-temash-and-kabini-in-early-2013/

And that relates to the tablet AMD demo'ed in what way?

You seriously had time to locate an unrelated slide, but couldn't bother verifying what I said?

The differences are clear: docked, the Temash ramps up from 8W to 15W, and that’s enough to see a 40- to 50-percent hike in the Fish Bowl score.

http://www.slashgear.com/amd-turbo-dock-temash-tablet-reference-design-hands-on-24271087/

 

[monstercameron]

amd temash in asus...temash was shipping
link

 

[AtenRa]

hmm..pretty sure that dockable temash ran at 9w, 15w when docked.

There is no 9W Temash, only 3,6 to 5,9W(turbo raise couple of Watts up)

Kanini start at 9W and goes up to 15 and 25W

You can't blame AMD for comparing against a current intel product. But that's not the landscape Temash is going to have to compete against when it launches.

Temash is going to compete in the Tablet space against ATOMs both in price and performance.

 

[monstercameron]

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182086

Maybe the soc is 8w after all

 

[Abwx]

And that relates to the tablet AMD demo'ed in what way?

You seriously had time to locate an unrelated slide, but couldn't bother verifying what I said?

The differences are clear: docked, the Temash ramps up from 8W to 15W, and that’s enough to see a 40- to 50-percent hike in the Fish Bowl score.

http://www.slashgear.com/amd-turbo-dock-temash-tablet-reference-design-hands-on-24271087/

8W is for the whole tablet when undocked and 15W when docked.
Contrary to your viral marketing motivated claim , this is not Temash that is docked or undocked but a whole tablet....

 

[Gideon]

8W is for the whole tablet when undocked and 15W when docked.
Contrary to your viral marketing motivated claim , this is not Temash that is docked or undocked but a whole tablet....

Among forementioned sources Tech-report also mentioned long ago:

http://techreport.com/news/24186/new-details-early-benchmark-data-revealed-for-15w-
kabini-apu

Temash, the sub-5W system-on-a-chip AMD showed in its roadmap earlier this week, appears to be based on the same silicon as Kabini—although it might use different process technology optimizations to achieve its lower power envelope. AMD plans to offer Temash in both sub-5W and 8-9W variants.

Let's not forget that Kabini is the exact same chip (with power-hungry parts, i.e. PCI-Express controller,not being fused off). An embedded 4-core Kabini has a 9W TDP @ 1Ghz and 15W @ 1,5Ghz.

Considering that Temash in turbo dock also goes up to 1.4Ghz, i find the claim of 8W (and 15W in turbo) for the entire tablet a bit too optimistic. I hope AMD proves me wrong though

 

[Abwx]

Embeded SoCs have higher TDP than tablet/notebook dedicated APUs.

8W/15W for the whole undocked/docked tablet is perfectly in line
with the possible thermal dissipation of such a device , there s no
way to dissipate more than 8W with no fan at all.

 

[Gideon]

Embeded SoCs have higher TDP than tablet/notebook dedicated APUs.

I'm sorry if this sound smartass-ish but that's just plain wrong. "Embedded SoC" is a much broader term than say, a PC. They come in all shapes and sizes including those in your microwave or car engine ... many have a MUCH lower TDP than any tablet processor.

8W/15W for the whole undocked/docked tablet is perfectly in line
with the possible thermal dissipation of such a device , there s no
way to dissipate more than 8W with no fan at all.'

Hmm interesting... I also seem to remember them quoting that only the dock has a fan ...

However I find it hard to believe that higher-end 4-core Temash is going to run without a fan. AFAIK the only fanless design AMD showed off was a 2-core design (probably the 3.6 W TDP version).

The only Bobcat based Z-60 tablet with a 4.5W + 1W (for FCH) TDP has a fan that's constantly on:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Fujitsu-Stylistic-Q572-Tablet.91078.0.html

... this is not the case though, since the APU requires active cooling. As a result, users will have to put up with an audible cooling fan and air vent, which is active at all times, ...

 

[mikk]

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182086

Maybe the soc is 8w after all

3.9W for two cores Temash and 8W for the Quadcore (and maybe a faster clocked GPU). This number makes sense to me.

 

[Ventanni]

Isn't the Nexus 10 an 8w TDP device?