Kaido's 2009 Camcorder Guide

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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<<<<Kaido's 2009 Camcorder Guide

Interested in recording video, but confused about how to approach it? You've come to the right thread!

I created this thread to help answer some of the common questions regarding video cameras floating around this forum. Please feel free to ask any questions in this thread; we have a lot of knowledgable people here! As far as future plans go, I will be making an HV20-specific thread soon and I am working on a Wiki containing more generalized info on all aspects of videography (lighting, stabilization, cameras, etc.) as well as a focused section of the Wiki for video editing on the Mac platform. I will be referring to video cameras as both "cameras" and "camcorders" interchangably through this thread.

Let's begin...

Table of Contents:

I. Types of Camcorders
II. What do you want to do?
III. Editing Software: How to get from Point A to Point B
IV. Camcorder Recommendations
V. Camcorder Accessories
VI. Where to go from here
VII. Fun Projects

I. Types of Camcorders

There are many types of camcorders. For consumers, the 3 most common are:

1. Digital Cameras, with Recording Features
2. Pocket Camcorders (palm-sized)
3. Handheld Camcorders
Most point-and-shoot (P&S) digital cameras sold today come with basic video recording feaures; more and more are adding some type of High Definition (HD) recording (usually 720p). If you only want to capture clips, these are a great option for video recording because you get two devices in one. Carrying around one small device is much more convenient than carrying around both a camera and a camcorder. However, you are typically limited to clips between 15 seconds to a few minutes, instead of multiple hours.

This is a picture of a Digital Point-and-Shoot Camera with Video Recording capabilities

The next step up is pocket camcorders. These are typically the size of an iPhone, or a little smaller than the palm of your hand. They usually include basic camera features as well, but they're primarily made for recording video. The three most popular models are the Flip Mino HD, the Creative Vado HD, and the Kodak Zi6. There are also cheaper HD and non-HD models with less visual quality, such as those from Aiptek.

This is a picture of a flash memory-based Pocket Camcorder

The last kind of camcorder is the one you typically think about, the handheld camcorder. Typically these were either DV (digital tape) or Hard Drive-based, but the newest ones use memory cards for recording digital footage. The advantage to recording digitally is that you don't have to import from tape in real-time, you can simply drag-and-drop your video files over to your computer!

This is a picture of a Handheld Camcorder

There are also all kinds of other niche cameras. You can get cell phones with video features. Some dSLR's now have video recording features. You can use a webcam. There are lots of options. So let's talk about what you want to do with your camcorder next...

II. What do you want to do?

The very first question you should ask yourself is this:

<<<<What do I want to do with my camcorder?

You should consider your needs both now and in the future. For example, if you have a new baby and want to record clips to send to Grandma, a multi-function digital camera with recording features may be the ticket. But if are the type of person who keeps their equipment for a long time, then a few years down the road at T-Ball practice, you may wish you had invested in a handheld camcorder to record full games instead of just clips.

To help you decide on a camera, ask yourself this question:

<<<<What do I envision as the end result of me capturing footage?

A lot of people buy camcorders, take a lot of video, and then all that great footage just sits around for years, collecting dust. Realistically, most people don't like watching boring recorded footage of family outings or events. It's like watching your uncle's boring old slide presentations. We all grew up on television and want interesting videos (preferably short) to watch. I'll talk more about this in the editing section later, but be aware of this trap - you may have this great idea in mind of recording your son or daugther's childhood, but without some kind of plan to follow through and turn it into something you're really going to watch later, then you've just wasted a lot of money.

Recognizing this can help you decide on what you want. In this situation, perhaps a digital camera that records short video clips is the best option, because then you can make 30-second clips available on your family blog for everyone to see. So "needs assessment" is a big factor in choosing a camcorder. Here are some teaser questions to help you define your needs:

1. I want to record my children growing up and send clips to family members via email
2. I like to goof off with my friends and want to upload short videos to Youtube
3. I want to make short films and give DVD copies to my friends
4. I enjoy computer hardware and want to record gadget reviews to upload to my website
5. I like to record my dog doing funny things and showing my friends HD clips on my PS3
So, not only ask yourself what you want to record, but also ask yourself what you want your end result to be. Are you going to put your videos on Youtube? Burn them to DVD? Stream them to your Xbox 360? This is where editing comes in...

III. Editing Software: How to get from Point A to Point B

The biggest stumbling block in the world of camcorders is editing software. I know a lot of people with video cameras, but I hardly know anyone who puts out content (videos of their families, movies of their pets, etc.) on a regular basis. This is because they aren't clear on how to get from Point A (recording video) to Point B (getting an edited movie to their final destination, such as Blu-ray).

Video editing isn't like falling off a log; it requires some effort to learn how to do. Even programs as simple as Windows Movie Maker or Apple iMovie requires some effort. For most people, it's not so much the effort of learning as it is simply not knowing what to do - how to import footage, how to put together video clips with music, and how to export that to Youtube or a DVD. You should do some research to find out the procedures on operating your camera, getting the footage into your computer, and outputting it to the medium of your choice. Here are some questions you can research:

1. What camcorder do I have?
2. How do I import footage into my computer?
3. How do I edit footage on my computer?
4. How do I export footage to the medium of my choice? (DVD, YouTube, Wii, Blu-ray, etc.)
Workflow procedures can be vastly different from camera to camera. For example, I currently have a MiniDV handheld camcorder (the Canon HV20), which records footage to a small digital tape. Because it is tape, I have to hook up my camcorder with a Firewire cable and record the footage to my hard drive in realtime (1:1). So if I recorded a 2-hour wedding, then I would have to record the tape to my computer for 2 hours to get all of the footage. Once it's on my hard drive, I then have to convert it to a usable format that my video editing program can understand. By contrast, the Kodak Zi6 pocket cam is a flash-based camcorder. To import footage, you simply plug the SD memory card into your computer, import the files into say Apple's iMovie editing software, and start editing. No conversion or real-time capture required.

This goes back to what your goals are with your camcorder. Importing footage with my MiniDV camcorder is a real pain in the neck, but I want the excellent quality that my camcorder gives, so I'm willing to put up with it. If you're not into amateur filmmaking, then the Kodak Zi6 might be right up your alley - great quality with 720p High Definition, but with "instant editing" capabilities.

So what is video editing?

The basic idea is to mix video and audio into a movie. Editing can be as simple as importing a clip from your camera, formatting it to work on Youtube, and then uploading it to Youtube, or as complex as adding voiceovers, re-arranging video clips, adding transitions, and adding a soundtrack. In order to do this, you will need at least one video editing program. The more complex the program, the harder it is to learn and the more expensive the software will be.

The two primary platforms for video editing are Mac and PC. You can also edit on Linux (and other operating systems), but since this is a general guide you're on your own for that! Apple has 4 primary editing programs:

1. Apple iMovie HD '09
2. Apple Final Cut Express
3. Apple Final Cut Pro
4. Adobe Premiere
iMovie is the "beginner's" video editing package and comes free with every new Mac (it's also available for under $100 separately, along with a great music editor). The new version of iMovie (2009) is very easy to use and extremely powerful. The next step up is Final Cut Express. Final Cut is part of Apple's professional suite of software for high-end video editing. Final Cut Express is a lightweight version - more features than iMovie, but not as many as Final Cut Pro. Final Cut Pro is professional video editing software and is even used in Hollywood on movies and TV shows. The Final Cut Studio 2 suite comes with a variety of other apps such as LiveType for titles, Motion for motion graphics, and Soundtrack Pro for audio editing. Adobe Premeire is Adobe's cross-platform video editing software and is equivalent to Final Cut Pro.

For Windows, there is a HUGE variety of software available. Here is a small list:

1. Windows Movie Maker
2. Sony Vegas
3. Pinnacle Studio
4. Ulead VideoStudio
5. Adobe Premiere
For a more complete list of video editing software available, check out this Wikipedia list:

Link for Wikipedia list of Video Editing Software

What software you choose depends on what you want to do. You should definitely do some research - read up on the differences between the packages, the costs, the functions and features, and the usability and stability. Make sure your camera is supported. Download demos and try them out. If you need a recommendation, here is what I suggest:

Apple Software:

1. Mac Newbie: iMovie 09
2. Mac Amateur: Final Cut Express
3. Mac Pro: Final Cut Pro
Windows Software:

1. Windows Newbie: Windows Movie Maker
2. Windows Amateur: Sony Vegas
3. Windows Pro: Adobe Premiere
Now, here's another trap to fall into: being in the "newbie" category may be offensive to you and you may want to try a more advanced piece of software. First, keep in mind that just because I put it in the "newbie" category doesn't mean it's JUST for newbs - I use iMovie 09 all the time! It's quick and easy - I can pump out clips really fast with it, instead of delving into Final Cut Pro. Second, software isn't just about "oh I'm not a newb", it's about time. By that I mean your time investment. Complex software requires lots of time to learn and master, plugins to purchase and learn how to use, workflows to define, and so on. A complex piece of software can really suck up your time, whereas a simplier piece of software can get the job done more quickly and easily. I'd definitely recommend picking up one of the "newbie" programs if you're new to editing to at least learn the ropes and to let yourself run into roadblocks where there's something you want to do and can't - this will help you appreciate the more advanced software and understand how to use it better.

If you're new to video editing and want to get into amateur filmmaking, then by all means go ahead and pick up an advanced package! Just be aware that the more advanced the software, the more time you're going to be spending using it, and time is like money - you only have so much to spend in a day - and what's your goal for output? If you want a cinematic movie then yes, learn the software, but if you just want fun clips to show your family, then don't spend hours and hours learning the arcane intricacies of video editing software, just use the easier programs to put something fun together and show it off!

As far as learning the software goes: read the manual! If you don't like the manual, check out Lynda.com, VTC.com, Youtube, Internet forums, and tutorial websites. There are a LOT of resources available, and the principles usually apply to other editing packages as well. Okay, so we've talked about the basics of editing, now it's time for the meat of this thread: the cameras!

IV. Camcorder Recommendations

<<<<1. Digital P&S Cameras:

There are so many cameras in this category that it's very difficult to make a recommendation. Many digital cameras on the market have basic video recording capabilities (either 320x240 or 640x480 VGA) and some of the newer ones have 720p, such as the Panasonic FX35 and TZ5. Here are a couple of review websites where you can look at samples from lots of different cameras:

http://www.digicamreview.com/

http://www.steves-digicams.com/hardware_reviews.html

<<<<2. Pocket Cams:

There are 3 primary contenders right now:

1. Flip Mino HD
2. Creative Vado HD
3. Kodak Zi6
If you are looking for top quality, I'd go with the Vado HD (this great picture quality & a wide-angle lens). If you are looking for best price and standard accessories (removable AA batteries and SD card), the I would recommend the Kodak Zi6. There are a lot of other "cheapo" cameras in this category, such as Aiptek models, but at minimum I would recommend the Kodak Zi6, which sells for about $150. You can go cheaper, but you can't get as good quality! Between the Vado HD and the Kodak Zi6, the image quality is very similar, but to my eyes the Vado has an edge, as well as the advantage of having a wide-angle lens. However, the Kodak Zi6 wins in terms of price (about $80 cheaper than the Vado) and upgradability (uses separate memory cards, unlike the Vado's integrated 2-hour memory, as well as standard batteries).

Quality Recommendation: Creative Vado HD ($230)

Budget Recommendation: Kodak Zi6 ($150)

<<<<3. Handheld Camcorders:

In my book, Canon is the best for handheld camcorders. Sony offers similar quality as well as extra features like slow-motion and night vision, so if those are important to you, definitely check them out. Here are my recommendations: (all are HD cams)

Canon HF-100: This is Canon's "budget" HD camcorder. It shoots in full 1080p and looks beautiful! It records to an SD memory card, so there are no tapes involved. If you are looking for a quality handheld camera at a budget price, this is the one to get. It runs about $530 online, which is a STEAL for what you get. This records at 17mbps AVCHD. A new version is due out in the next month or two, called the HF-200. The HF-100 should be available at good prices ($530 right now is an excellent price).

Canon HV30: This is Canon's "prosumer" amateur HD camcorder. It records to MiniDV tape (digital tape) and has a lot of great filmmaking features, as well as a huge community behind it and lots of fabulous upgrades. If you want to make short movies, this is the camera to get! The first model in the series is the HV20, which is what I have, followed by the HV30 (which added 30p recording), and now replaced by the HV40 (which adds native 24p recording). Pretty much they're all the same camera - all have the 24p feature, but you have to run a software filter to convert it from 60i to 24p on the HV20 and HV30 (no big deal since you have to convert the files to an editable format anyway). I recommend the HV30 over the HV40 because they're essentially the same camera and the HV30 can be had for much less ($600 vs. $1000).

Canon HFS-100: This is Canon's latest HD digital camcorder. It records at full 24mbps, the max AVCHD spec. It has an 8.59mp sensor that downscales to 1080p, so you get lots of image quality. This replaces the Canon HF-10 and HF-11. There is also a Canon HFS-10 available, which has 32gb of memory onboard PLUS an SD memory slot, but it costs $200 more than the HFS-100 model. You can get a LOT more memory in SD card form for $200, so I recommend picking up the HFS-100 instead (same model, just without the onboard memory). There aren't very manual reviews yet, but this camera may replace the Canon HV30 series as "top dog" for amateur filmmakers. If you want the best quality and want a pure digital workflow, this is the camera to get.

V. Camcorder Accessories

The first 3 accessories I recommend for any camera system are:

1. Spare batteries
2. Spare memory or tapes
3. Padded carrying case
First, these don't apply to all cameras - some cameras have built-in memory and others have built-in batteries. Some don't need a carrying case and use a pouch instead. But for general use, I recommend getting at least one extra set of batteries. My favorite place to get batteries is eBay - you can get Chinese knockoffs for really cheap. I picked up a spare battery for my Canon HV20, along with an extra wall charger and a car charger, for only $20 shipped. I keep 3 or 4 batteries per camera at all times since I shoot a lot. I would recommend at least one set of spares.

I also keep a set of spare memory cards or tapes. This allows you more recording time, which is great if you're on vacation and don't have a computer handy to dump video to. Some spare MiniDV tapes or spare memory cards is a great thing to have, especially if one breaks or you lose one or just need that extra 5 minutes but you're current tape or card is full.

The final thing I recommend for a starter system is a padded carrying case. This mostly applies to handheld camcorders - a standard MiniDV bag works great and holds spare batteries and tapes or memory cards as well. If you have a digital camera or a pocket camcorder, you can get a small carrying pouch to put them in or a silicon skin to keep on them 24/7.

Miscellaneous Accessories:

If your camera has a preview screen, I would recommend getting a screen protector for it. This keeps the screen protected and also keeps it looking new if you ever want to upgrade to something else and sell what you have now. You can get universal screen protectors and cut them down to size if you can't find one made specifically for your camera model.

Also, if you get a handheld camcorder, get a UV lens. These are cheap lenses (usually around $10) that protect the camera's lens from damage. It is MUCH better to damage a $10 lens and have to replace it than to damage the built-in lens on your $600 camcorder! Just make sure you get the right thread size for your camera. For example, my Canon HV20 cam uses 43mm filters, so I would get a 43mm UV protective glass filter.

$7 Tiffen 43mm UV lens filter

To clean your lens, I recommend lens paper. It's a special type of tissue paper designed to work specifically with camera and camcorder lenses. In a pinch you can use a microfiber cleaning cloth, but don't ever use Kleenex, paper towels, or your T-shirt - they can damage your lens! Lenses have special coatings and need special cleaning materials, so be careful about what you allow to touch your lens! This is another reason why you should use a UV lens filter on your handheld camcorder.

Stabilization:

The hallmark of an amateur videographer is shaky footage. Nothing says "newbie!" like a video image that is shaking around more than the Bourne Identity. All you need here is some sort of tripod system. The most basic model is a plastic camera tripod, available from Best Buy, Walmart, or eBay. These cost $10 - $30 and do a good job of keeping the camera in place.

The next step up is a fluid-head tripod. This has a special thick liquid that slows down the movements and prevents the jerky movement of a regular camera tripod head. This is how you get smooth movements with your camera (panning and tilting). These start at about $110. My #1 recommendation is the Velbon DV-7000 tripod:

$110 Velbon DV-7000 Fluid-Head Camcorder Tripod (with quick-release plate)

You may also want to get a carrying case for your tripod if you travel with it a lot. A carrying case both protects the tripod and makes it easier to carry thanks to a should strap. I would definitely recommend investing in a padded carrying case (these go through airports better without breaking anything). They start at about $20 (eBay is a good place to look for cheap padded tripod bags). Here's a cheap one that will fit the Velbon DV-7000 I recommended:

$20 padded Tripod Bag (for tripods up to 35")

Now, I have to tell you about my absolute favoritist tripod ever: the Gorillapod. This is a mini flexible tripod that goes anywhere! It has 3 bendable legs and can attach to poles, beams, chairs, etc., or just act as a small, portable tripod. They have a variety of sizes available depending on the size and weight of your camera. I have nearly all of them and they're great! Here's a link:

Gorillapod Mini Flexible Tripods

Other Accessories:

There are a lot of other accessories to go with your camcorder, but it really depends on the model you get. Aside from a stabilization system (i.e. a tripod), the next big step you can take is lighting. A good 3-piece lighting kit will go a long way to making your indoor shots look better. A dedicated microphone, either one that connects to your camcorder or a separate model, can really improve recording quality as well.

VI. Where to go from here

1. Forums:

Forums are a great place to learn about camcorders, discuss problems and solutions, and make friends. Here are a variety of forums: (there are many more than this too!)

The Digital Video Information Network forums (aka "DV Info")
HV20/30/40 Forum
Steadicam Forum
AVS Camcorder Forum
CNET Camcorder Forums
The Camcorder Forum
Videomaker Forums
Red User Forums
Scarlet User Forums

2. Resources:

Youtube (free video hosting)
Viddler (Youtube alternative)
Vimeo (basically Youtube HD for filmmakers)

3. Tutorial Websites:

Video Copilot
Virtual Training Company (VTC)
Lynda.com
Emeek77's Apple Video Training (caution - language)

VII. Fun Projects

Here are some fun projects you can pursue:

Build your own lightbox
Build a cheap tripod using a plastic bottle
Trick to get crane-style shots using your tripod
Build a Steadycam for $14
Remove camera shake using iMovie 09

Stickified!

- Moderator fuzzybabybunny
 
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HendrixFan

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With the new line of Canon camcorders about to come out, will there be a price drop on the HF-100? Is it worth waiting to buy?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: HendrixFan
With the new line of Canon camcorders about to come out, will there be a price drop on the HF-100? Is it worth waiting to buy?

I want to say yes, because that would make sense, but I doubt it. They didn't drop the prices on the other models right away, they actually dropped them months and months beforehand. For example, both the HV30 and HF-100 were/are going for $529 (an incredible price all around). The new HF-200 is coming out at $749:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...F200_Flash_Memory.html

So...no, probably not. I doubt we'll see the older models drop below $500. The HF-100 is still an excellent buy, especially at $529:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/...F_100_AVCHD_Flash.html
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life
Kaido = Superman for video editing!

Keep your eyes and ears open with what he has to say!

Haha thanks

I'll be posting videos later this month to compare footage from a P&S camera, a Kodak Zi6 Pocket Cam, and a Canon HV20 handheld cam. I may also narrate this guide a bit since it's a lot of reading and could probably be explained with video in 10 minutes or less.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
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I picked up the HF-100 today, should be shipped out to me next week. Any recommendation on inexpensive suitable lighting for indoor shooting?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: HendrixFan
I picked up the HF-100 today, should be shipped out to me next week. Any recommendation on inexpensive suitable lighting for indoor shooting?

I'd recommend a basic 3-piece lighting kit from eBay. The general suggestion is to make sure each light is 500 watts at minimum (good video = lots of light). A good starter kit will run about $300. Here's one recommendation I saw posted:

http://www.canogacamera.com/detail.aspx?ID=9523

Lighting is both easy and hard. It's one of the most important elements when shooting video. Stepping away from the romance of recording movies for a moment, at the core, a camera is simply an image sensor that records the environment. Lighting plays a key role in the image because without light, we would have no image. So the better kit you purchase or assemble, the more control you can have over your lighting. And you can always reduce lighting in post (editing) to achieve the look you want, but you can't really "add" light later. Here are some good resources to read up on:

http://nextwaveg.blogspot.com/...hting-kit-for-122.html

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html

And if you're on a budget, even a crappy lighting kit is better than NO lighting kit :thumbsup:
 

francisA

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Dec 2, 2008
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Kaido, great post. The time and effort you put into writing this post is much appreciated.

I picked up a HF100 a month ago based on your advice and responses to forum questions. Along with that, I also picked up the Velbon DV-7000, GorillaPod and other bits {guess from who's recommendation }

One thing I bought extra was a Manfrotto 560B monopod. Just got it less than 1 week ago. Lots of reviews on the web but it has tiny legs/feet that make it more stable but the best part is a fluid base for good pans. I didn't say excellent as nothing can replace the fluidness of a true fluid-head tripod like the DV-7000 but for run-and-gun situations and tight spaces, it does help amazingly.

Also, I know you're a fan {and so am I} of Brevis DOF adapter but I've also seen Twoneil on the web. Any thoughts on those? Looks like a good deal along with the Achromat, only downside is the upside-down picture.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: francisA
Kaido, great post. The time and effort you put into writing this post is much appreciated.

I picked up a HF100 a month ago based on your advice and responses to forum questions. Along with that, I also picked up the Velbon DV-7000, GorillaPod and other bits {guess from who's recommendation }

One thing I bought extra was a Manfrotto 560B monopod. Just got it less than 1 week ago. Lots of reviews on the web but it has tiny legs/feet that make it more stable but the best part is a fluid base for good pans. I didn't say excellent as nothing can replace the fluidness of a true fluid-head tripod like the DV-7000 but for run-and-gun situations and tight spaces, it does help amazingly.

Also, I know you're a fan {and so am I} of Brevis DOF adapter but I've also seen Twoneil on the web. Any thoughts on those? Looks like a good deal along with the Achromat, only downside is the upside-down picture.

Wow neat, how's that 560B working out for you? It doesn't look like it'd be stable, but the reviews are excellent!

Yes, I love the footage from the Brevis, but once you add up everything else you need (rails, lenses, etc.), it easily crosses the $2k mark...and I'd rather invest in a Scarlet at that point! The Twoneil adapter is pretty decent for the price range...the best one I've seen is the Brevis, followed by Letus and Redrock (all three are "commercial" solutions), then the more-or-less homemade models for sale. The nice thing about the Twoneil adapter is that it's very run-and-gun - you don't have a huge monster of an adapter sticking out - plus it's super cheap compared to the 'commercial' solutions. The disadvantage is that the footage isn't as good as the Brevis (not as sharp, wobbly, less light, etc.), but then it really depends on what your end goals are - it still looks really good from a DOF standpoint.

I'm working on another tutorial called "PODZILLA" that you may enjoy, it's about the "Ultimate" tripod collection and includes a crazy adapter mashup of a Gorillapod Focus, a 3D tripod head, and a Velbon fluid-head - basically you can attach it anywhere, angle it any way you want, and then get nice, smooth pans and tilts!
 

santuitman

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Mar 6, 2001
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Wow thanks for the guide, it's helpful. any thoughts on the new kodak Zx1 coming out next month? Looks to be quite similar to their other model...
 

francisA

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Dec 2, 2008
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The 560B works out better than I expected. I actually got 2 monopods to begin with, one just the plain ole monopod and the 560B. The stability the 560B provides is much much better than a regular monopod as you don't have to exert extra effort to balance out the rig. The 560B's base has a ball so it can practically rotate with ease. The 3 feet helps out by eliminating the need to balance the rig and since it has a ball-end, which has the right tension btw, i can even leave the HF100 on it without holding on to it {but ....... I wouldn't trust the 560B to stay up without tilting over for a long period of time as well as in windy situations}.

The fluid base is very smooth. I wouldn't be able to take relatively smooth shots and pans from midway of an auditorium at almost full tele without it.

I even tried the 560B on a slope and if positioned correctly, it will stand unsupported with the HF100 atop.

The Twoneil caught my eye, but more of a hobby than serious filming really. I just like the DOF at a low price. Your comments as to "less light" is right on based on what I've read as it requires a fast lens. The upside down image is something I can take care of at post but it's the upside down image on the lcd that will probably annoy me

Can't wait on PODZILLA, that would be very interesting. I might be working on a freebie project for my son's school for their Jazz Band, which is sort of a Video Montage so I'm collecting the essentials. Wish I could just rent a Steadicam Merlin for a few days {and not fork out $800} so I can take moving shots, makes it a lot more interesting for the viewers.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
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Originally posted by: santuitman
Wow thanks for the guide, it's helpful. any thoughts on the new kodak Zx1 coming out next month? Looks to be quite similar to their other model...

If you can wait, then buy it. It will be the same price ($149), but with a weather-resistant case and an HDMI jack (currently model has Composite/Component only).
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: francisA
The 560B works out better than I expected. I actually got 2 monopods to begin with, one just the plain ole monopod and the 560B. The stability the 560B provides is much much better than a regular monopod as you don't have to exert extra effort to balance out the rig. The 560B's base has a ball so it can practically rotate with ease. The 3 feet helps out by eliminating the need to balance the rig and since it has a ball-end, which has the right tension btw, i can even leave the HF100 on it without holding on to it {but ....... I wouldn't trust the 560B to stay up without tilting over for a long period of time as well as in windy situations}.

The fluid base is very smooth. I wouldn't be able to take relatively smooth shots and pans from midway of an auditorium at almost full tele without it.

I even tried the 560B on a slope and if positioned correctly, it will stand unsupported with the HF100 atop.

The Twoneil caught my eye, but more of a hobby than serious filming really. I just like the DOF at a low price. Your comments as to "less light" is right on based on what I've read as it requires a fast lens. The upside down image is something I can take care of at post but it's the upside down image on the lcd that will probably annoy me

Can't wait on PODZILLA, that would be very interesting. I might be working on a freebie project for my son's school for their Jazz Band, which is sort of a Video Montage so I'm collecting the essentials. Wish I could just rent a Steadicam Merlin for a few days {and not fork out $800} so I can take moving shots, makes it a lot more interesting for the viewers.

Cool, I'll have to add that monopod to my wishlist!

Yeah, a fast lens is key to getting usuable results. The Brevis has the lowest light-loss out of all the 35mm adapters, which is a big reason it has the best picture. But as you can see from the Vimeo footage, the Twoneil adapter is still VERY usuable. With the HV20, there is a flip-hack for the LCD, but I don't know if anyone has done the same thing to the HF100. One alternative is to get an external preview screen (like a cheap portable DVD player with input or a fancy mini-HD Monitor with HDMI input), then you can flip it around really easily since it's just a physical location thing.

Steadicam stuff is great, I've had my eye on the Pilot, but at 4x the cost of my camera I'm not quite ready for it yet My dream setup would be a Scarlet + Pilot (or whatever the equivalent model is for the weight setup)...that's just be insane
 

santuitman

Platinum Member
Mar 6, 2001
2,355
0
0
Originally posted by: Kaido
If you can wait, then buy it. It will be the same price ($149), but with a weather-resistant case and an HDMI jack (currently model has Composite/Component only).

Hey
Thanks for the input. I am intrigued by the weather resistant claim but they don't really seem to say what that means. We would be very occasional users so this style would be good for us. Until I found your thread I didn't even know Kodak was making these! We have had good luck with their point and shoot cameras but the video lacks good balance control. I would not be surprised to see the price drop on the Zi6 when the newer model hits the shelf next month.
Thanks !!!!!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: santuitman
Originally posted by: Kaido
If you can wait, then buy it. It will be the same price ($149), but with a weather-resistant case and an HDMI jack (currently model has Composite/Component only).

Hey
Thanks for the input. I am intrigued by the weather resistant claim but they don't really seem to say what that means. We would be very occasional users so this style would be good for us. Until I found your thread I didn't even know Kodak was making these! We have had good luck with their point and shoot cameras but the video lacks good balance control. I would not be surprised to see the price drop on the Zi6 when the newer model hits the shelf next month.
Thanks !!!!!

np! Keep in mind there isn't much in the way of controls on the Zi6...it's pretty much a point-and-shoot without the camera part It has a very, very basic zoom and a "macro" mode and that's about it. It's basically designed to be a 720p HD pocket camera without the camera, just with the camcorder. Very useful though - because it works so easily with iMovie, it's very handy to use!
 

degeester

Senior member
Nov 5, 2000
330
0
0
Wow, thanks Kaido, i've been looking for a new camcorder for my daughter's violin recitals and our vacations. Look like for the price Canon HF-100 is the one for my needs.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: degeester
Wow, thanks Kaido, i've been looking for a new camcorder for my daughter's violin recitals and our vacations. Look like for the price Canon HF-100 is the one for my needs.

The HF-100 is great :thumbsup:

Are you familiar with the accessories and associated software for editing?
 

StarsFan4Life

Golden Member
May 28, 2008
1,199
0
0
Kaido has been a big help for me.

I purchased the HF100 with 3 x 16gb flash drives and could NOT be happier. Although I am still trying to figure out how to properly edit HD video, the quality of the camera is a steal at the price!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: StarsFan4Life
Kaido has been a big help for me.

I purchased the HF100 with 3 x 16gb flash drives and could NOT be happier. Although I am still trying to figure out how to properly edit HD video, the quality of the camera is a steal at the price!

Glad to be of help!

Any luck with getting a working Vegas workflow?
 

santuitman

Platinum Member
Mar 6, 2001
2,355
0
0
Downloading video clip right now...
Thanks, I don't know how you find the time!
edit:after seeing video
I does seem choppy but the camera was panning quite fast. Too bad ther e wasn't a slower sample!
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: santuitman
Downloading video clip right now...
Thanks, I don't know how you find the time!
edit:after seeing video
I does seem choppy but the camera was panning quite fast. Too bad ther e wasn't a slower sample!

These HD "pocket cams" are still in their infancy, technology-wise...the main feature that is missing is optical stabilization (or heck, ANY kind of stabilization). I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually, but for a camcorder that beats a point-and-shoot's camera video recording capabilities for only $149, there's not much to complain about. I got my sister a Zi6 for her birthday and it's pretty nice. The low-light stinks and there's no stabilization, so just use a tripod and turn on more lights. No biggie.
 

santuitman

Platinum Member
Mar 6, 2001
2,355
0
0
I agree that for what it is the camera is a good deal. I don't think the video clip does it justice though. It seems like the camera work be better suited to slower subjects/motions for filming. I do like the weather proof idea too. One of the things we are thinking of doing is taking this to Disney World. I know this is VERY subjective but due to the low light do you think it would be useless to try to film a night time parade?
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
48,517
5,340
136
Originally posted by: santuitman
I agree that for what it is the camera is a good deal. I don't think the video clip does it justice though. It seems like the camera work be better suited to slower subjects/motions for filming. I do like the weather proof idea too. One of the things we are thinking of doing is taking this to Disney World. I know this is VERY subjective but due to the low light do you think it would be useless to try to film a night time parade?

I'd say yeah, pretty useless. I mean it will work, but it won't look that great. We filmed my sister's birthday indoors with the Zi6 and it was pretty grainy (just one overhead light with the cake and candles and whatnot). But then, that's any camera - you're not going to get good low-light performance unless you spend $$$ on a camera.
 

degeester

Senior member
Nov 5, 2000
330
0
0
Thanks Kaido, I just bought the HF10 bundle @ Costco for 549. Comes with carrying case, and a Dane-Elec 4gb card. Now to start looking for a good 16 or 32GB card.
 
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