Kaido's 2009 Camcorder Guide

[Kaido]

Oh man oh man oh man, I found an AWESOME new Steadycam! It's called the Blackbird from Camera Motion Research:

http://www.camotionllc.com/index.php

Intro price is $645 (list is $745). The Merlin's (Steadicam equivalent) MSRP is $849 and sells for $799+ at most places. The big difference is that the Blackbird has an adjustable gimbal, which is REALLY nice. The Merlin has an option vest & arm (about $1800), so that's a nice upgrade path. So far I've read a TON of positive reviews on the Blackbird.

Added to my wishlist!

 

[Kaido]

Okay after two days of playing with the D90, I've found two glaring drawbacks:

1. You can ONLY focus through the 3" screen, no Live-View from HDMI output. Getting perfect focus is HARD this way, especially since it's all manual (no auto-focus in Movie Mode). It's really evident on people, like you can tell their hair is just a tad bit out of focus.

2. The Motion-JPEG format is pretty blocky, almost like looking through a grid at times. You can fix it somewhat in post, but it's still not a top-notch recording format. This isn't a huge deal because it is, after all, a digital camera and not a camcorder, so I can't complain too much on this point.

Focus and colors are amazing. Sharpness is really great. You have to do some tricks to get things really dialed in for recording, but it's pretty quick for setup. It's limited to 5 minutes per clip, so it's not really something to use for family functions where you just want to run around and shoot for an hour or two. For amateur filmmaking, if you're willing to put up with the limitations of the camera and minor hassles of the import workflow, it's pretty neat. If you're a photographer who wants to dabble in video, it's definitely a cool little gadget to get.

Will report more later...

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Okay after two days of playing with the D90, I've found two glaring drawbacks:

1. You can ONLY focus through the 3" screen, no Live-View from HDMI output. Getting perfect focus is HARD this way, especially since it's all manual (no auto-focus in Movie Mode). It's really evident on people, like you can tell their hair is just a tad bit out of focus.

2. The Motion-JPEG format is pretty blocky, almost like looking through a grid at times. You can fix it somewhat in post, but it's still not a top-notch recording format. This isn't a huge deal because it is, after all, a digital camera and not a camcorder, so I can't complain too much on this point.

Focus and colors are amazing. Sharpness is really great. You have to do some tricks to get things really dialed in for recording, but it's pretty quick for setup. It's limited to 5 minutes per clip, so it's not really something to use for family functions where you just want to run around and shoot for an hour or two. For amateur filmmaking, if you're willing to put up with the limitations of the camera and minor hassles of the import workflow, it's pretty neat. If you're a photographer who wants to dabble in video, it's definitely a cool little gadget to get.

Will report more later...

you know, you really shouldn't be shooting 5 minute clips in the first place. talk about a yawn fest....

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you know, you really shouldn't be shooting 5 minute clips in the first place. talk about a yawn fest....

:laugh:

For movie-style projects, 5 minutes is more than enough - most clips are less than a minute long for continuous shots, most far less than a minute.

 

[leglez]

My Gorillapod should be here Thursday so I can finally start playing with the Vado

 

[theblackbox]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you know, you really shouldn't be shooting 5 minute clips in the first place. talk about a yawn fest....

:laugh:

For movie-style projects, 5 minutes is more than enough - most clips are less than a minute long for continuous shots, most far less than a minute.

now is that 5 minutes total, or 5 minutes at a time?

i say this because 5 minutes raw shots are awful long.

even a minute of continuos footage is long. now i'm not a fan of 2-4 second cuts, but unless there is a ton of dialog (like a page) that kind of shot is awful long. at least to me.

i don't do much family stuff though, actually none.

 

[lupi]

Well looks like I'll be picking up the hf10 from costco. Seems the newer models are more expensive, without any real enhancements, and are equal or worse in previous year performance. Going from a digi8 cam, and was thinking about getting something in the $300 range to get away from using tapes (going right to a HDD saves a good amount of time transferring things). But the little more for a full HD cam seems like it will keep up with tech for some time to come so the little extra spent now isn't that bad.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: theblackbox

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: theblackbox
you know, you really shouldn't be shooting 5 minute clips in the first place. talk about a yawn fest....

:laugh:

For movie-style projects, 5 minutes is more than enough - most clips are less than a minute long for continuous shots, most far less than a minute.

now is that 5 minutes total, or 5 minutes at a time?

i say this because 5 minutes raw shots are awful long.

even a minute of continuos footage is long. now i'm not a fan of 2-4 second cuts, but unless there is a ton of dialog (like a page) that kind of shot is awful long. at least to me.

i don't do much family stuff though, actually none.

5 minutes per clip, as many clips as your card can hold.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: leglez
My Gorillapod should be here Thursday so I can finally start playing with the Vado

Awesome, post some stuff on Vimeo!

 

[leglez]

Do you have any suggestions for settings in VoltaicHD? I downloaded the demo and shot a sample clip and then used voltaic and the new clip seems to be a lot more jumpy than the original and it freezes about 10 seconds into it.

 

[leglez]

Got my gorillapod in today, now just gotta figure out Voltaic

 

[lupi]

For those that have a camcorder without a viewfinder how do you "deal" with it? Even though my previous had a good lcd screen, I did the vast majority of my shooting through the viewfinder. How do you keep the pictured centered on you filmed object without a bunch of added shake with using the lcd screen to frame the shot?

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: lupi
For those that have a camcorder without a viewfinder how do you "deal" with it? Even though my previous had a good lcd screen, I did the vast majority of my shooting through the viewfinder. How do you keep the pictured centered on you filmed object without a bunch of added shake with using the lcd screen to frame the shot?

It's all about stabilization. At the very least, get a monopod to balance the camcorder on. A tripod would be better, but a monopod is much more portable. The human hand just naturally shakes and you can't really do anything to overcome it. Optical image stabilization helps, but doesn't completely solve it. Larger cameras weigh more and counteract the slight hand shake in our bodies, but smaller cameras don't have that luxury. So pretty much get some kind of stabilization tool to help. Here's some instructions for a Poor Man's Steadycam:

http://steadycam.org/

I was on a trip and needed one ASAP, so I ordered the kit from him and it works great. It's ugly, but it REALLY helps smooth out the image without costing $900+ like a "real" steadycam.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Hello. I was recently at Best Buy looking for a camera that shot vid in HD but upon noticing the prices I thought what's the difference between getting a camera or a camcorder for about the same price when they are the same size.

I have an old Canon Optura Xi I bought a couple of Xmas' ago that I just found a pain buying the mini DV tapes and then editing scenes using the 'linear tape technology' and now I want something that produces Extremely high quality video & pics that is relatively small and that uses either Flash memory or a HDD (basically the latest technology) I don't know what is the latest and greatest thing in this field.

I'd like to shoot birthday parties, outside events at night or day etc. Specifically something that is good at low level light situations. And for the sound I'd like it to have an attenuator for shooting local hard-core punk rock DIY shows. Thanks for your time and help,

529th

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Hello. I was recently at Best Buy looking for a camera that shot vid in HD but upon noticing the prices I thought what's the difference between getting a camera or a camcorder for about the same price when they are the same size.

I have an old Canon Optura Xi I bought a couple of Xmas' ago that I just found a pain buying the mini DV tapes and then editing scenes using the 'linear tape technology' and now I want something that produces Extremely high quality video & pics that is relatively small and that uses either Flash memory or a HDD (basically the latest technology) I don't know what is the latest and greatest thing in this field.

I'd like to shoot birthday parties, outside events at night or day etc. Specifically something that is good at low level light situations. And for the sound I'd like it to have an attenuator for shooting local hard-core punk rock DIY shows. Thanks for your time and help,

529th

What's your budget?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

5-600$

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
5-600$

The Canon HF100 should be a good fit for you (or the newer HF200). I'd recommend at least one 8-gig Class 6 SDHC card and some cheap eBay batteries, as well as a $6 UV filter to protect the onboard lens.

As far as low-light situations go, pretty much all consumer camcorders suffer from poor performance in those situations. I've read that MiniDV tapes do better in low-light than digital camcorders do, but I'm not sure exactly what the difference is.

One thing you may want to consider, since you want to take pictures too, is a dSLR camera that has recording capabilities. I just picked up a d90 for around $900 and it does fabulous video. I think the d60 (not sure on that number) has lower-quality video for a less price, so you may want to look into that as well.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
5-600$

The Canon HF100 should be a good fit for you (or the newer HF200). I'd recommend at least one 8-gig Class 6 SDHC card and some cheap eBay batteries, as well as a $6 UV filter to protect the onboard lens.

As far as low-light situations go, pretty much all consumer camcorders suffer from poor performance in those situations. I've read that MiniDV tapes do better in low-light than digital camcorders do, but I'm not sure exactly what the difference is.

One thing you may want to consider, since you want to take pictures too, is a dSLR camera that has recording capabilities. I just picked up a d90 for around $900 and it does fabulous video. I think the d60 (not sure on that number) has lower-quality video for a less price, so you may want to look into that as well.

Thanks for the suggestions!

What about a mic attenuator!? My Optura Xi filters out high db so I don't get noise distortion and its great for filming shows/gigs but I want something that has that with Flash SD so I dont' have to search the linear MiniDV tapes... Thanks again!

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: BTRY B 529th FA BN
Thanks for the suggestions!

What about a mic attenuator!? My Optura Xi filters out high db so I don't get noise distortion and its great for filming shows/gigs but I want something that has that with Flash SD so I dont' have to search the linear MiniDV tapes... Thanks again!

You're welcome!

The HF100 has an onboard attenuator, but a quick google search said it doesn't work so well; personally I'd just go with a separate microphone (onboard camera mics are never very good). I really like the Rode VideoMic: (has a built-in high-pass filter switch)

http://www.videomaker.com/article/12163/

 

[BornStar]

I see you recommending the HF100 and HFS100 but nothing about the HG20 or 21. Do you have something against those two cameras? I'm looking at getting a camcorder soon and I happily stumbled across this thread.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: BornStar
I see you recommending the HF100 and HFS100 but nothing about the HG20 or 21. Do you have something against those two cameras? I'm looking at getting a camcorder soon and I happily stumbled across this thread.

Nothing at all against them as cameras, I just prefer Flash over Hard Drive-based cameras because Flash has no moving parts, you can swap the cards between other devices (dSLR, game system, etc.), and they're less bulky than their HDD-based counterparts. I also prefer the HFS-100 (Flash-only) over the HFS-10 (internal Flash + external Flash card) due to the cheaper cost and because you're not hosed if you break the connector or something happens to the internal drive. Plus you can transfer footage really fast with a good card reader by just popping the cards in, and it's easy to make a full card backup quickly for archiving. In short, it's just simpler for me to deal with

 

[BornStar]

It looks like the HG20 supports SDHC cards so if the drive dies it's not useless as far as I can tell. Does that change your opinion at all? I'm just asking because I had selected the HG20 and I wanted to make sure that it was a decent camera before spending all that money. It's available for $700 at B&H and I just can't justify almost $300 to upgrade to the HFS100 for a smaller size and a larger sensor.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: BornStar
It looks like the HG20 supports SDHC cards so if the drive dies it's not useless as far as I can tell. Does that change your opinion at all? I'm just asking because I had selected the HG20 and I wanted to make sure that it was a decent camera before spending all that money. It's available for $700 at B&H and I just can't justify almost $300 to upgrade to the HFS100 for a smaller size and a larger sensor.

Yeah it's definitely a great cam. As far as my opinion on hard drive-based cameras go, remember that's just my personal preference - in fact fwiw, I've never heard of anyone's camcorder hard drive going bad. For me personally, I mainly just prefer Flash sticks because they work with all of my other devices. On the plus side for the HG20/21, if the Flash slot breaks, you have an internal backup to shoot on! Also, the larger sensors on the newer cameras are nice, but it's really all about how you use the camera - $300 is a lot for something that you're not going to be making amateur films with and will only notice a bit more better visual image quality from.

I'd say go with it and have fun! I looked at the specs for the HG20 and HG21 and it looks like they're the exact same camera, except that the HG21 has twice the hard drive capacity. Not really worth the money if you're regularly dumping footage onto your computer. Also, both record at 24MBps, which is the full AVCHD spec, so that's really good.

 

[BornStar]

Originally posted by: Kaido

Originally posted by: BornStar
It looks like the HG20 supports SDHC cards so if the drive dies it's not useless as far as I can tell. Does that change your opinion at all? I'm just asking because I had selected the HG20 and I wanted to make sure that it was a decent camera before spending all that money. It's available for $700 at B&H and I just can't justify almost $300 to upgrade to the HFS100 for a smaller size and a larger sensor.

Yeah it's definitely a great cam. As far as my opinion on hard drive-based cameras go, remember that's just my personal preference - in fact fwiw, I've never heard of anyone's camcorder hard drive going bad. For me personally, I mainly just prefer Flash sticks because they work with all of my other devices. On the plus side for the HG20/21, if the Flash slot breaks, you have an internal backup to shoot on! Also, the larger sensors on the newer cameras are nice, but it's really all about how you use the camera - $300 is a lot for something that you're not going to be making amateur films with and will only notice a bit more better visual image quality from.

I'd say go with it and have fun! I looked at the specs for the HG20 and HG21 and it looks like they're the exact same camera, except that the HG21 has twice the hard drive capacity. Not really worth the money if you're regularly dumping footage onto your computer. Also, both record at 24MBps, which is the full AVCHD spec, so that's really good.

Thanks for the input. I should be ordering one shortly.

 

[theblackbox]

kaido, i thought you would appreciate this:

http://cosprings.craigslist.org/pho/1187167527.html

one thing i would never expect to see on craigslist. i'd love to have that, especially with the flip module. man oh man.
too bad it's not in the barter category...