Kaido's 2009 Camcorder Guide

[Kaido]

Was in costco the other day and walked by the camera display. For those interested they have replaced their canon model and no have the hf200 as their bundle item. Sign said it was $50 off this month for $550.

Nice! Great camera for a great price

 

[mcveigh]

my parents want to buy me a camcorder for their first grandson due in January.
Any ideas?
I'm thinking I should go for one of the new small ones like the Zi8 or vadoHD or Sanyo VPC-CG10 HD.

That way it's small and easy to grab for a quick few minutes of filming. I don't expect to be using it for hours at a time. I'm not sure how much low light shooting i'll be doing. I kinda think image stabilization would be good. I'll probably be moving a lot to get the prefect angle to document my son's puking. etc

My gut feeling is that something like the HF100 or VPC FH-1 would be overkill.
I'll cut and do simple editing on my computer and then most likely just upload video for the grandparents to view.

another consideration is my wife is left handed.

 

[Kaido]

my parents want to buy me a camcorder for their first grandson due in January.
Any ideas?
I'm thinking I should go for one of the new small ones like the Zi8 or vadoHD or Sanyo VPC-CG10 HD.

That way it's small and easy to grab for a quick few minutes of filming. I don't expect to be using it for hours at a time. I'm not sure how much low light shooting i'll be doing. I kinda think image stabilization would be good. I'll probably be moving a lot to get the prefect angle to document my son's puking. etc

My gut feeling is that something like the HF100 or VPC FH-1 would be overkill.
I'll cut and do simple editing on my computer and then most likely just upload video for the grandparents to view.

another consideration is my wife is left handed.

The pocket cameras currently don't offer Image Stabilization (or at least, not good Image Stabilization). I'd get the Vado HD if I were buying a Pocket Cam today. It's not complicated and is very quick to use, plus it has a wide-angle lens (fits more in the picture) and the best image quality of any pocket camera I've seen.

If you have a bit of a budget, for around $400 - $500 I'd recommend the Sanyo VPC-FH1. It's got great quality for the price, image stablization, and even slow-motion.

 

[Kaido]

I'm still mulling over my upgrade options: (something of a rant post, haha)

1. I currently have a Canon HV20 (1080p MiniDV HDV camcorder) and a Nikon D90 (dSLR with 720p movie-mode). The HV20 is a tad annoying to work with because it uses MiniDV tapes, which require realtime import and then transcoding, so my import workflow is more work than I'd like. I prefer the D90's import workflow, but it actually records at 800p and rescales, which introduces stairstepping, so I have to rescale each clip before transcoding into an editable format, plus it's only 720p and not 1080p so I lose some resolution (which is handy for the Smoothcam filter and for cropping). Also, the D90 goes into more or less "automatic" mode in while recording movies, so I can't control the ISO or anything fun like that. The HV20 has better workarounds for that kind of stuff.

2. For the Canon HV20, I could get a Firewire-based hard drive recorder, so that I could simply drag-and-drop my files to my hard drive to transcode for editing, but those start at $799, so at that price I might as well get a new camcorder. The HFS-100 is looking pretty good, but my two main gripes with it are (1) the low-light performance isn't as good, and (2) I can't use my manual focus ring for those nifty DOF shots. Canon will most likely annouce new cameras in January, which should improve things in the digital realm, so I'd probably be better off waiting a month and seeing what comes out.

I'm also toying with the idea of picking up a 35mm adapter, but since I have a D90 for 35mm-style shots, it's just an idea. Originally I was saving up for a Cinevate Brevis35, the best 35mm adapter on the market currently, but once my wife got the D90 for her photography stuff, I decided to ditch that idea. So, the two options I could go with now are either a low-cost 35mm adapter (the Jag35Pro for $300, which has made a LOT of progress in picture quality since it's debut) or a Canon 7D dSLR, which does 1080p 24p.

I also want to keep a little camcorder handy for (1) long recordings (funerals, weddings, family events, etc.), and (2) for doing crazy stuff that I wouldn't normally use a dSLR for (like strapping the camera to the outside of my car). Plus I really like auto-focus, it's just something that's really handy when you want to just "shoot stuff" and not have to worry about screwing with the focus. I was kind of thinking about a Canon HF200 due to the tiny size, but I like the picture quality from the HFS-100 better, and it would feel like more of a downgrade from my HV20. I was also looking at the Sanyo VPC-FH1BK, which is a $500 camcorder with decent quality (not as good as the HF200), but has some fun stuff like slow-motion mode, 60p, and the new one (VPC-FH1ABK) supports the iFrame format, so I could toss it into iMovie without transcoding if I just want to do a quick edit instead of firing up a whole Final Cut Pro project.

3. For the D90, I can go with either a Canon 5D or 7D. I'm really in love with the 5D's full-frame footage, but it only does 30p, and I shoot almost exclusively in 24p, which is why the D90 is great. The 5D is getting a 24p firmware update next year (in 2010), but I don't know if it will be real 24p (due to the existing sensor) or some crappy software thing. The 7D is also excellent and does 24p today, plus it's cheaper than the 5D by nearly a grand; it doesn't look as good as the 5D, especially for still shots, but it hits pretty much every other requirement.

4. The camera I really want is the RED Scarlet, which doesn't exist yet, and probably won't until at least the end of next year. I already have a savings fund created for that, so it's completely separate from my current cameras, but that will pretty much do everything I want - 35mm, autofocus, fully-digital, etc. So this is a definite upgrade, but I have to wait on it due to the fact that it's not released and won't be for awhile. Also, the Scarlet isn't super compact, not like an HF200 or even a dSLR, so it'd be harder to get shots in sneaky places (like around NYC or other public places).

So to conclude:

1. The RED Scarlet is my dream camera, but is currently vaporware for at least a year or two.

2. I'm considering upgrading to a Canon 7D and a Sanyo VPC-FH1BK or ABK: that'd give me a 1080p 24fps 35mm camcorder, as well as a tiny little camcorder for any kind of recordings.

3. Maybe I'll just ignore it all and keep enjoying what I have

 

[Kaido]

3rd-gen Vado HD out:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/23/creative-rolls-out-third-gen-vado-hd-pocket-camcorder/

Holy cow, didn't they JUST release the 2nd-gen?? Anyway specs:

+ $179.99
+ Available in 4GB only (the heck?)
+ Improved low-light recording
+ Manual exposure adjustment
+ Motion detection mode
+ External stereo mic support
+ Headphone output
+ Ability to take still photos

 

[Kaido]

Some purported samples from the 3rd-gen Vado:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e07nuA_uphY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txh95gniNm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muWNVBOc-bE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDyCFiAUFrI

Lots more quickie samples:

http://www.youtube.com/user/vadobodygroove

 

[Kaido]

Official VadoHD 3rd-gen product page:

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=833&subcategory=834&product=19070

 

[mcveigh]

The pocket cameras currently don't offer Image Stabilization (or at least, not good Image Stabilization). I'd get the Vado HD if I were buying a Pocket Cam today. It's not complicated and is very quick to use, plus it has a wide-angle lens (fits more in the picture) and the best image quality of any pocket camera I've seen.

If you have a bit of a budget, for around $400 - $500 I'd recommend the Sanyo VPC-FH1. It's got great quality for the price, image stablization, and even slow-motion.

Thanks!

The only downside I can see to the Vado HD is that it doesn't take any kind of removable storage. is this a big deal?

 

[mmntech]

4. The camera I really want is the RED Scarlet, which doesn't exist yet, and probably won't until at least the end of next year. I already have a savings fund created for that, so it's completely separate from my current cameras, but that will pretty much do everything I want - 35mm, autofocus, fully-digital, etc. So this is a definite upgrade, but I have to wait on it due to the fact that it's not released and won't be for awhile. Also, the Scarlet isn't super compact, not like an HF200 or even a dSLR, so it'd be harder to get shots in sneaky places (like around NYC or other public places).

lol. They're like a weapon or a force field to keep people away. Maybe that's not such a bad thing. Nothing makes people move out of the way faster then when I point my giant camcorder at them.

What's a good low-cost HD camcorder with manual controls? I'd like one to take around with me to shoot stuff for school. I'm kind of looking for something with some professional features (like manual iris, zebra stripes, manual colour balance). I don't know is something like that exists. I'm still new to this. It can't be expensive since I'm a starving student.

 

[Kaido]

Thanks!

The only downside I can see to the Vado HD is that it doesn't take any kind of removable storage. is this a big deal?

I'd say no, but it depends on your shooting style. Like, my mom never cleans off her card - so we got her a basic Kodak still/video digicam with a big card or two. If you're in the habit of dropping recorded files onto your computer after shooting, then you'll never hit that 2-hour limit (or whichever capacity you get). I shoot in small clips typically, not long recordings, so for me 2 hours is plenty for a pocket cam.

I think I'm going to ask for the new VadoHD 3rd-gen for Christmas :biggrin:

 

[Kaido]

lol. They're like a weapon or a force field to keep people away. Maybe that's not such a bad thing. Nothing makes people move out of the way faster then when I point my giant camcorder at them.

What's a good low-cost HD camcorder with manual controls? I'd like one to take around with me to shoot stuff for school. I'm kind of looking for something with some professional features (like manual iris, zebra stripes, manual colour balance). I don't know is something like that exists. I'm still new to this. It can't be expensive since I'm a starving student.

A lot of times it's actually the opposite - people start acting super stupid in front of the camera and won't get out of the frame :biggrin: It's like when a celebrity walks by - people's brains turn off and they get all star-struck.

The Canon HV-series is really good for what you're looking to do. The current model is the HV40, although if you can find the HV30 for cheaper, it's the same camera - they just don't have you do the 60i wrapper for 24p mode, iirc. You're not going to get 100% of the features you want in a cheap camera, but you can get a pretty good camera nowadays for the money. I have the HV20 (same as the HV30 & HV40, essentially); here's a good resource to read:

http://www.dvxuser.com/jason/hv20/

And some more info here:

http://www.digitalsecrets.net/secrets/HV20.html

The HV20/30/40 is pretty much the best sub-$1,000 camera to get if you're looking to do school projects with some sort of manual control. Plus it has mic input & headphone output, the ability to use aftermarket lenses, a full-sized cold shoe, etc. It uses MiniDV tape, so it's not as convenient as recording to Flash memory or an internal hard drive, but tapes are cheap and the quality is worth it, if you want to be doing short films and stuff like that.

 

[Uppsala9496]

3rd-gen Vado HD out:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/23/creative-rolls-out-third-gen-vado-hd-pocket-camcorder/

Holy cow, didn't they JUST release the 2nd-gen?? Anyway specs:

+ $179.99
+ Available in 4GB only (the heck?)
+ Improved low-light recording
+ Manual exposure adjustment
+ Motion detection mode
+ External stereo mic support
+ Headphone output
+ Ability to take still photos

nvm

 

[Kaido]

Quick recommendations for December 2009:

Pocket Camera: 720p VadoHD 3rd-gen ($180)

HD Camcorder: 1080p Canon HF200 ($550)

Amateur Filmmaker Camcorder: 1080p Canon HV40 ($750)

Video dSLR: 1080p Canon 7D ($1700 body-only)

I'd recommend a point-and-shoot cam that also does video, but so many are doing 720p now that it's really up to you to decide what you want from the stills side of things. And after reviewing the current crop of Pocket Cameras, I like the VadoHD 3rd-gen the best. It will be available in a couple weeks. It's only 720p, not 1080p like the Kodak Zi8, but the quality is outstanding from the samples I've seen so far.

If you're looking to get a real camcorder and want HD, the Canon HF200 is the way to go. It's amazing, it's super tiny (the size of a soda can), and you can jack in a real microphone and lots of aftermarket lenses onto it. If you want to make films and have a bit of a bigger budget, the Canon HV40 is a beast. It has better low-light capabilities than the equivalent digital HFS-100 model, plus a lot of wonderful accessories. It's a real gem; I'm running one of the previous models, the HV20, and absolutely love it.

The Canon HV40 does use MiniDV tapes, which requires 1:1 import + transcoding into an editing format, so if you prefer a fully-digital workflow you'll either need a QuickstreamHDV Firewire HDD recorder ($799+) or switch to a different camera like the Canon HFS-10/HFS-100 (although you'll lose some low-light functionality, if that's a big deal to you, and the accessory scene is just a tad bit different).

Finally, I think the Canon 7D is the most amazing video camera on the market. You get great low-light capabilities (even better with the 5D, but that's way more $$$) and crystal-clear footage, plus 720p60 (yay slow-mo!), at the expensive of a few things (automatic gain control on the audio input, 12-minute max recording time per clip, cheesy autofocus, etc.).

So there's my recommendations for this month, so if you're looking to get something for Christmas, now you have a place to start Feel free to ask questions!

 

[Kaido]

I've got a bit of time off over Christmas, so I'll be finishing the porting of the Camcorder Guide over to the Wiki. The main reasons I'm doing this is for (1) easier access via LINKS instead of a huge list of info to scroll through, and (2) much easier to update & edit. The primary articles will be:

* 2010 Camera Guide (updated every 4-6 months)
* Nikon D90 workflow for Mac
* Canon HV20 workflow for Mac
* Software Resources (overview of the types of software available + links)

I'm also working on setting up a blog in Wordpress, which I'll post links to in here as I write new articles. That way I can throw in pictures & videos a bit more easily, without having to clog up the thread. I've also got some fun projects that I'll be posting, two of which are my Porta-booth (for vocal recording) and my new Predator Rig (a combo fluid-head tripod + gliding track + shoulder-rig mount system, all in one quick & easy setup).

 

[Kaido]

I'm extremely pleased with the VadoHD 3G footage I've seen so far. It made a world debut on HSN for $129 on Black Friday, but it's not being officially released for another week or two (no official release date). Supposedly it will be $179. Definitely planning on picking one up! This sample is super clear: (using an external mic)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_khxbDwjVg

 

[Kaido]

Well, I think I've changed my mind...the Canon SX200 digicam is looking pretty sweet. My old Canon A75 bit the dust awhile back and I still haven't gotten around to picking up a new point & shoot cam, and the SX200 looks like just the ticket. $299, includes 720p h.264 recording. A bit more expensive than the Vado, but the picture quality is a bit nicer (although no mic input). Clincher is that it has a 12x optical zoom (although you can't use it while filming video). Also has image stabilization, which apparently works in video mode! My only gripe is that there's no mic input, but I usually put my own audio in anyway. Here's a good review of the video features:

http://www.osnews.com/story/22106/Review_The_Video_Mode_on_the_Canon_SX200_IS

And some sample clips:

http://vimeo.com/4692255

http://vimeo.com/7132158

http://vimeo.com/4541103

I also played with my friend's Canon SD780 IS, which is a mini version of the SX200. It goes for around $199, but gives you nearly the same quality of video while actually fitting in your pocket. Pretty nice! Hopefully Santa will bring me one or the other this year and I can report back in a couple weeks

 

[JohnnyReynolds]

Amazon had it at that price too.However I heard about SNIP which is a free website that will “watch” items for you on Amazon and let you know when amazon has them in stock at regular retail price..........

 

[mcveigh]

Official VadoHD 3rd-gen product page:

http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=833&subcategory=834&product=19070

the product page has disappeared. Has anyone found a place selling the third gen?

 

[Kaido]

the product page has disappeared. Has anyone found a place selling the third gen?

Not yet. They're supposed to be out before Christmas, but everything's been pulled. The only people who have 'em are the ones who jumped on the HSN deal on BF. I've decided to go with an SX200, although I lose the mic input

 

[mcveigh]

sx200??? the cannon camera?

 

[Kaido]

sx200??? the cannon camera?

Yeah. Although now I've decided on a Canon SD780 IS - the 720p video quality is almost exactly the same as the SX200's, but it fits in my pocket, so I can carry it around all day. The SX200 has 12x optical zoom and manual focus though, which is pretty nice. Neither have the mic input that the VadoHD does, but that's not a dealbreak for me because I have a standalone solid-state mic (Zoom H2) that I can use if I need to record clean audio. Hopefully I'll post back after Christmas with a mini-review

 

[mmntech]

Hey guys. Does anybody have any opinions on the JVC GR-D850 camcorder. I spotted one in today for $250 CAD. Takes MiniDV tapes. I film in DV NTSC 16:9 60i with my XDCAMs, which this does. So it's compatible with my FCP projects. Would work great for school.

Good deal? They only had one left. I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow night so if it's any good, I might pick it up tomorrow morning.

 

[Kaido]

Hey guys. Does anybody have any opinions on the JVC GR-D850 camcorder. I spotted one in today for $250 CAD. Takes MiniDV tapes. I film in DV NTSC 16:9 60i with my XDCAMs, which this does. So it's compatible with my FCP projects. Would work great for school.

Good deal? They only had one left. I'm leaving for holidays tomorrow night so if it's any good, I might pick it up tomorrow morning.

Doesn't look too bad, especially as a cheap MiniDV deck. With shipping & tax, the price is about the same online. I'd say, why not?

 

[Kaido]

The Creative VadoHD 3rd-gen pocket cams are now available for pre-order on Amazon for $179 shipped: (although it looks like if you click the link below the name for third-party sellers, you can buy directly from Creative today)

Black VadoHD

White VadoHD

Spare Battery ($15)

VadoHD Tripod with Ballhead ($19)

These have 120 minute recording time built-in. Includes a stereo mic input jack, which is a big deal for a pocket cam, as well as headphone out, HDMI out, and analog AV out. If I were getting a pocket cam today, this is the one I would go with.

 

[mmntech]

Doesn't look too bad, especially as a cheap MiniDV deck. With shipping & tax, the price is about the same online. I'd say, why not?

I changed my mind and picked up a Cannon FS200. Same price. Uses MPEG2 instead but having no firewire port on my video editing rig was going to be a problem. Didn't want to run to school to use the tape decks either. Not a bad little SD camcorder.