Kalifornia City To Use Eminent Domain To Seize Houses - Redistribute Them To The Poor

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ciba

Senior member
Apr 27, 2004
812
0
71
As we've seen elsewhere, servicers are often very, very slow to foreclose & sell empty delinquent properties, which can be extensively vandalized, blighting communities. Value can deteriorate to zero before communities are forced to demolish what have become nuisances. That's because servicers can line their pockets with fees in the process, double-fucking investors.

You've got a great point. Also, trustees refuse to modify mortgages so they aren't caught in the middle of investors in different tranches. Foreclosing keeps their hands clean with investors, even if the value achieved is less!

I think it's terrible policy with long-term implications. Richmond is driving the cost of borrowing up for all its residents.
 

Texashiker

Lifer
Dec 18, 2010
18,811
197
106
Locked interest rates and property value depreciation, that's how.

Has nothing to do with the interest rate, has everything to do with buying into a bloated housing market.

People were buying homes as if they were a commodity, rather than buying a home to raise a family.

Just because someone tells you something is worth a certain amount of money does not make it so. So what if the people are underwater, deal with it. They were stupid enough to fall for the scam, too bad for them. Those of us who bought something we can afford should not be punished due to stupid people.

As for the OP, it is the government, oh well. That is why california is going broke.
 
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Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Weren't there a lot of people throwing a fit a few years back because the mortgage companies didn't take enough time to cross all the T's and dot all the I's? Something about robosigning?

And now you are complaining they are taking too long?

That was wrt actual foreclosure & eviction, which are legal proceedings. Abandonment is another issue entirely. People can mail in the keys, notify the servicer that they will no longer pay, (if they can figure out who that is today) move out, but the servicer can just keep sending delinquency notices & avoid the expense of foreclosure, thus milking investors. Meanwhile, the property goes to Hell in a handbasket, becoming a liability to the community.

http://www.regionalhopi.org/content...d-vacant-homes-may-be-costing-chicago-much-36

When the mortgage is one that the bank never got to offload to investors, banks are loathe to sell at a loss, preferring to hold the properties on their books at FMV, which allows them to maintain the facade of having proper fractional reserve asset to loan values so that they can... lend more money, of course, take a cut off the top of that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/28/u...-abandoned-buildings.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It's not just Chicago, but all over the country in varying degrees.

What Richmond proposes just makes banks & investors eat their losses now while maintaining the health of the community. I'm not sure I like the idea, but that's their reasoning, obviously.

In some instances, I suspect that investors would actually come out ahead, avoiding the legal fees of foreclosure & the piling on of fees by servicers in the meanwhile.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,048
29,968
146
Richmond is North Oakland. Not too much difference in the two cities...and they're only separated by a few miles at the most...BOTH cities suffer from the same infestation of hood rats...gangs, drugs, hooliganism, high crime, etc.

The best solution for both cities is to turn the bulldozers loose and flatten them...then rebuild.


Hey hey hey! there's quite a few towns in between those two!

 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
This is slightly misleading if I'm reading the article correctly. They are planning on seizing the mortgages themselves from the MBS holders and cutting the price for the homes' current owners. It's a way to get some equity in the homes for the homeowners while forcing the losses upon the investors. Right or wrong, that looks to be what they are trying to do. A better idea might just be to help those homeowners strategically default so they can begin to start over.

That's how I read it too. I'm not aware that eminent domain can be used to seize financial instruments. I question if this is even possible.

Fern
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
That's how I read it too. I'm not aware that eminent domain can be used to seize financial instruments. I question if this is even possible.

Fern

ED is not limited to real property. It can be used to seize any asset.
 

Smoblikat

Diamond Member
Nov 19, 2011
5,184
107
106
I would very much enjoy any government official attempt to seize my property........
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
For the record, these people in "Kalifornia" are only following the ideas of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York(Big Daddy Fed had a report on this issue not to long ago) and an ambitious mortgage company Mortgage Resolution Partners.

The idea is simple and kind of novel. The govt uses its eminent domain power and pays fair market value for the underwater mortgages, to lower the amount owed. The problem comes when the mortgages are all going to be refinanced by Mortgage Resolution Partners. Its basically taking from X investors to give to Y investors, while tax payers foot the bill for fair market value. Has nothing to do with the underwater home owners other than they might get some benefit(how much is TBD).

There are 5 cities already planning on doing this(including Richmond). North Las Vegas could be the sixth(and first outside of CA) later this month. The first attempt of actually using eminent domain(instead of merely talking/planning) is going to happen in ~2 months in El Monte, CA.

My bet is it all gets bogged down by litigation and all the cities that signed on just stop trying.
 
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DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
For the record, these people in "Kalifornia" are only following the ideas of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York(Big Daddy Fed had a report on this issue not to long ago) and an ambitious mortgage company Mortgage Resolution Partners.

The idea is simple and kind of novel. The govt uses its eminent domain power and pays fair market value for the underwater mortgages, to lower the amount owed. The problem comes when the mortgages are all going to be refinanced by Mortgage Resolution Partners. Its basically taking from X investors to give to Y investors, while tax payers foot the bill for fair market value. Has nothing to do with the underwater home owners other than they might get some benefit(how much is TBD).

There are 5 cities already planning on doing this(including Richmond). North Las Vegas could be the sixth(and first outside of CA) later this month. The first attempt of actually using eminent domain(instead of merely talking/planning) is going to happen in ~2 months in El Monte, CA.

My bet is it all gets bogged down by litigation and all the cities that signed on just stop trying.

Actually the biggest problem is 80% of all Mortgages is held by the Government, which means they can't actually use this for those mortgages.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Around 80% of all mortgages are held by some kind of Government Entity, this plan will NOT work for these as they cannot use Eminent Domain against, the county, state, or federal government.

Actually the biggest problem is 80% of all Mortgages is held by the Government, which means they can't actually use this for those mortgages.

Saying the same thing twice doesn't make it true.

You have links, right?
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Actually the biggest problem is 80% of all Mortgages is held by the Government, which means they can't actually use this for those mortgages.

This is being applied to private mortgages. There are still trillions in non-agency RMBS out there.

As far as this idea, I have a few problems with it.

1. How far can this be applied? What about an underwater car, boat, plane, building? Should the government be seizing private assets to do what they want?

2. The investors get no upside while the homeowner takes it all.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
This is being applied to private mortgages. There are still trillions in non-agency RMBS out there.

As far as this idea, I have a few problems with it.

1. How far can this be applied? What about an underwater car, boat, plane, building? Should the government be seizing private assets to do what they want?

2. The investors get no upside while the homeowner takes it all.

I would agree there are still many it can help, just not the majority of people. The percentage of people in an area who faces foreclosure who 1 has a loan from an investor that they use ED, and two will be able to even make the new payments, is probably less than 10% of loans in default.
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,461
996
126
This is being applied to private mortgages. There are still trillions in non-agency RMBS out there.

As far as this idea, I have a few problems with it.

1. How far can this be applied? What about an underwater car, boat, plane, building? Should the government be seizing private assets to do what they want?

2. The investors get no upside while the homeowner takes it all.

The original investors get nothing(except maybe more than if they foreclosed), the new investors of the company refinancing the properties after eminent domain definitely gain something, at the tax payer and original owners expense.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
Around 80% of all mortgages are held by some kind of Government Entity, this plan will NOT work for these as they cannot use Eminent Domain against, the county, state, or federal government.
I think you are referring to the insurance that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provide to most mortgages. And they don't even insure that many. The government most definitely does NOT hold 80% of mortgages.
 

DCal430

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2011
6,020
9
81
I think you are referring to the insurance that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac provide to most mortgages. And they don't even insure that many. The government most definitely does NOT hold 80% of mortgages.

You have no idea how an MBS works.

The fact you call it insurance shows your ignorance. FNMA, FHLMC, GNMA actually own the mortgages that back RMBS securities they sell. It isn't insurance at all.
 
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BigDH01

Golden Member
Jul 8, 2005
1,630
82
91
This is being applied to private mortgages. There are still trillions in non-agency RMBS out there.

As far as this idea, I have a few problems with it.

1. How far can this be applied? What about an underwater car, boat, plane, building? Should the government be seizing private assets to do what they want?

2. The investors get no upside while the homeowner takes it all.

This basically sums up my feelings. The homeowner should take some sort of hit, which is why I think programs to help these owners strategically default is the more fair option. At least the owner will take some hit to credit.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This is being applied to private mortgages. There are still trillions in non-agency RMBS out there.

As far as this idea, I have a few problems with it.

1. How far can this be applied? What about an underwater car, boat, plane, building? Should the government be seizing private assets to do what they want?

2. The investors get no upside while the homeowner takes it all.
After Kelo v. New London, it's pretty apparent that government cannot be limited and can take whatever it wants as long as it benefits. Government DOES have to pay "fair market value" - but then, government also gets to set fair market value.

As far as the investors, they had ample opportunity to purchase some protection from the DNC. If they couldn't afford that protection or failed to recognize this brave new world in which we live, sucks to be them. Perhaps they'll wise up and invest whatever money they have left over outside our nation where it's more difficult to seize.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,347
8,434
126
Richmond, CA -

http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2013/06/16/6285/

City is seizing legally owned private property to redistribute it to someone else.
This is exactly what happened during the communist revolution in Russia.
What a joke.

Welcome to the People's Republic of Kalifornia.

Steven M. Gluckstern
In addition to serving as Mortgage Resolution Partner's Chairman, Gluckstern currently serves as Chairman of Ivivi Health Sciences LLC, a privately financed San Francisco based medical technology firm.

Previously, Gluckstern was a general partner of Azimuth Trust Company LLC, an alternative asset management firm that Gluckstern co-founded in 2002 and served as its CEO until 2005.

From 1993 to 1998 and from 2001 to 2002, Gluckstern held a range of executive and financial positions within the Swiss-based Zurich Financial Services Group. In 1998, he co-founded Capital Z Partners. This alternative asset/private equity management firm managed over $4 billion in two global funds. In 1988, Gluckstern also co-founded Centre Reinsurance, the first specialty financial reinsurer, with $250 million of venture capital, making it one of the largest start-ups of its kind.

Prior to Centre Reinsurance, Gluckstern worked for investor Warren Buffett and served as General Manager of reinsurance operations of the Berkshire Hathaway Insurance Group, President of Columbia Insurance Company, and Senior Vice President of National Indemnity Company. Earlier he was Chief Financial Officer of Healthco Inc., the then largest distributor of dental products in the world. He started working in the business world as an investment banker at Lehman Brothers.

Prior to his time in business, Gluckstern spent seven years as a teacher and school administrator.

Gluckstern holds a BA in Psychology and Natural Sciences from Amherst College, an Ed.D in Administration and Organizational Change from The University of Massachusetts at Amherst, and an MBA from Stanford University Graduate School of Business where he was an Arjay Miller Scholar.


sounds like a commie to me
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
So how does this work for the people that owe the money? Why should other people make up the difference just because some idiot bought a house he could not afford expecting it to keep increasing in value? Make them pay! So if someone buys stock and the price goes down, you gonna help those guys too? This is welfare for rich people.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
http://theweek.com/article/index/204563/fannie-and-freddie-by-the-numbers

This is just for FNMA and FHLMC which together hold 53% of mortgages, it doesn't include GNMA which it self is another 20 to 30%.

That article is out of date, and you misrepresent what it says-

The amount in mortgages either owned or guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie — equivalent to 53 percent of the entire U.S. mortgage market

Owned or *guaranteed* back then. There is a difference. If Richmond exercises eminent domain against a mortgage guaranteed by either, they only pay the difference between that and the loan balance.

They're in the process of obtaining settlements from the Banks who misrepresented the debt instruments purchased by the GSE's , as well-

http://beta.fool.com/kcolona/2013/03/21/fannie-mae-and-freddie-mac-suddenly-back-in-play/27784/
 

shortylickens

No Lifer
Jul 15, 2003
80,287
17,078
136
Has nothing to do with the interest rate, has everything to do with buying into a bloated housing market.

People were buying homes as if they were a commodity, rather than buying a home to raise a family.

Just because someone tells you something is worth a certain amount of money does not make it so. So what if the people are underwater, deal with it. They were stupid enough to fall for the scam, too bad for them. Those of us who bought something we can afford should not be punished due to stupid people.

As for the OP, it is the government, oh well. That is why california is going broke.

Normally I dont agree with you but on this you are correct.

That whole house-flipping nonsense is the reason they cost way too damn much and idiots are losing assloads of money and smart hard-working people cant get a place to live. The bullshit with the mortgage rates and poor loan procedures was the effect of people wanting too many houses. Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac did not cause the catastrophe, they simply responded to a demand. Basic economics.

Sure the demand was based on stupidity, greed, ignorance, and laziness, but its still a legit demand.
 
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