Kamala vs the Orange Felon - Presidential Race 2024 - Polls, News, Etc...

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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
Well, what immediately comes to mind is hives:

Yes, stress can cause hives, also known as urticaria or a stress rash. When you're stressed, your body releases chemicals that can cause inflammation and make your skin more sensitive, which can trigger hives. Hives can appear anywhere on the body, but are often found on the face, neck, chest, or arms. They can vary in size and shape, and may be itchy or cause a burning or tingling sensation. Hives usually only last less than 24 hours and go away on their own, but they can come and go in waves and flare up for weeks. If hives last longer than a few days, you should see a doctor. You should also seek immediate medical attention if you have symptoms like fever or swelling of the mouth, tongue, or lips.

Had further thoughts on that. The argument about 'stress' is about something objectively testable and verifiable, and within the domain of science - they can measure cortisol levels in the blood (actually had that test done at one point - they were normal) and detect infections and even directly detect a suppressed immune system that can make infections more virulent.

It's still an incomplete theory, mind you, as it still leaves unanswered, the question of what's the physical mechanism by which your thoughts or mood raises those cortisol levels - but that's the big one, the relation between consciousness and the physical world, mind and matter, and maybe it's unfair to ask for an answer about that, possibly it's something that will never have a scientific explanation.

That's very different, however, from saying, after failing to find any such raised cortisol or infection, that your symptoms are somehow caused by your 'subconcious' and constructing some sub-literary theory of how those subconcious motivations relate to your symptoms, as if there's somebody else in your body with you making it do those things. Which is what the Freudians and those influenced by them seem to go in for.

Or just declaring it's all your fault for not reassessing and challenging your 'irrational negative beliefs', which seems to be the underlying assumption behind CBT.

The change in psychiatric fashion from the former to the latter seemed to follow, in lockstep, changes in the political climate - something that further makes me suspicious as to the fundamentally-political nature of 'psychiatry'.
 
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Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,212
9,007
136
He increased his votes from 2016 to 2020 by 11,000,000+ new voters after 4 years of making a fool of himself, the country, and a pandemic. 74,000,000+ Americans witnessed 2017-2020 and thought that another 4 years of Trump would be great.

You don't think he can pick up 6,000,000 votes after 4 years of inflation, tens of millions of children changing gender, the installation of litter boxes in elementary schools due to teachers encouraging children to identify as cats, and "losing" Afghanistan?

I think you're wearing some pretty rosy glasses. If Trump can't increase his vote count by a few million votes, Harris is going to be getting 350+ EC votes easy. Are you predicting FL, OH and NC going Harris, cause that's a really optimistic take.

A few things:

First, 2020 turnout was fucking historic. Highest % in recorded history for a US presidential election. You can't count on that to occur again, because of ...

Second, his party enthusiasm is now lagging behind that of the Democrats.

Third, as has already been mentioned, a much higher % of "his" voters are now dead from COVID and demographics.

Fourth, the newly registered voters (any possible offset/increase to point #1) are overwhelmingly Democrats. You can probably attribute this to ...

Fifth, Dobbs. It's still a huge thing. It hasn't gone away, and will cause a non-trivial amount of "his" previous voters to either not vote for him or switch columns.

As for your strawman ... yeah, I think NC is definitely realistic. So does Cook Political Report as they just moved it into the tossup category earlier this week. The demographics suck for Trump and the GQP Governor candidate is a gonna be a huge fucking drag up ballot.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,095
30,041
146
Hogan is exceptionally popular in Maryland from his time as governor. I would not read that as an overall (national) republican win by any means.

The concern is that it's a dependable Dem senate seat switch to the GOP. losing 1 MD seat would be...really bad.

I've only seen one Alsobrooks ad so far, like 3+ dozen for Hogan.
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
12,212
9,007
136
The concern is that it's a dependable Dem senate seat switch to the GOP. losing 1 MD seat would be...really bad.

I've only seen one Alsobrooks ad so far, like 3+ dozen for Hogan.

It's looking like MD is the 2nd most likely senate seat to flip. WV being the first, and a stone cold lock.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,206
13,461
146
Had further thoughts on that. The argument about 'stress' is about something objectively testable and verifiable, and within the domain of science - they can measure cortisol levels in the blood (actually had that test done at one point - they were normal) and detect infections and even directly detect a suppressed immune system that can make infections more virulent.

It's still an incomplete theory, mind you, as it still leaves unanswered, the question of what's the physical mechanism by which your thoughts or mood raises those cortisol levels - but that's the big one, the relation between consciousness and the physical world, mind and matter, and maybe it's unfair to ask for an answer about that, possibly it's something that will never have a scientific explanation.

That's very different, however, from saying, after failing to find any such raised cortisol or infection, that your symptoms are somehow caused by your 'subconcious' and constructing some sub-literary theory of how those subconcious motivations relate to your symptoms, as if there's somebody else in your body with you making it do those things. Which is what the Freudians and those influenced by them seem to go in for.

Or just declaring it's all your fault for not reassessing and challenging your 'irrational negative beliefs', which seems to be the underlying assumption behind CBT.

The change in psychiatric fashion from the former to the latter seemed to follow, in lockstep, changes in the political climate - something that further makes me suspicious as to the fundamentally-political nature of 'psychiatry'.
Given that everything we ever feel about our body is just nerve impulses interpreted by our brain, is it really such a stretch to imagine the brain can 'interpret' incorrectly, or even without the nerve impulses to begin with?

Have you really never just felt icky without actually suffering from a major infection from a viral or bacterial load?
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
Given that everything we ever feel about our body is just nerve impulses interpreted by our brain, is it really such a stretch to imagine the brain can 'interpret' incorrectly, or even without the nerve impulses to begin with?

Have you really never just felt icky without actually suffering from a major infection from a viral or bacterial load?


This is going well off-topic, of the nominal topic of the thread, so I apologise for that. Though I consider it a failing of the way the forum works, topics will inevitably spawn sub-topics, and it ought to automatically create sub-threads or something.

But you mention "the brain", not "the mind", which seems to me to be the whole point.

it seems (from my direct experience), they don't really know much about the relation between physical conditions affecting the brain and the subjective experiences of the, er, "owner", of said brain. Given that lack of knowledge I really don't understand the basis of all the wild theorising psychiatrists go in for. The whole discipline seems to be built with its foundations floating in mid-air, it seems to me.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,206
13,461
146
This is going well off-topic, of the nominal topic of the thread, so I apologise for that. Though I consider it a failing of the way the forum works, topics will inevitably spawn sub-topics, and it ought to automatically create sub-threads or something.

But you mention "the brain", not "the mind", which seems to me to be the whole point.

it seems (from my direct experience), they don't really know much about the relation between physical conditions affecting the brain and the subjective experiences of the, er, "owner", of said brain. Given that lack of knowledge I really don't understand the basis of all the wild theorising psychiatrists go in for. The whole discipline seems to be built with its foundations floating in mid-air, it seems to me.
Given that the subjective experience can be changed (which is like, the whole point of the field of psychiatry), I think you're not giving enough credit where it's due.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
Given that the subjective experience can be changed (which is like, the whole point of the field of psychiatry), I think you're not giving enough credit where it's due.

But the capacity to change that 'subjective experience' is going to be strictly-limited by the constraints of physical reality. The problem with the field of psychiatry is the degree to which it ignores those constraints and pretends they don't exist.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
15,206
13,461
146
But the capacity to change that 'subjective experience' is going to be strictly-limited by the constraints of physical reality. The problem with the field of psychiatry is the degree to which it ignores those constraints and pretends they don't exist.
Constraints defined by who? Yourself, based on what you expect? Your brain processes 100% of the information you believe to be your reality, if that information is capable of being manipulated (it is) or processed incorrectly (it is) then literally anything the mind can process can be wrong (and often is). Ergo any symptom without a physical cause can in fact be caused by the mind, pending alternate explanation.
 
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dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,476
3,974
126
The only thing that determines who wins a state's electoral college votes is votes cast and tallied. Full stop.
You are ignoring what determines the votes that are cast. That determination is controllable and that control is influenced drastically by early polls.

Otherwise you have to prove to us that ads don't matter, campaign promises don't matter, policies don't matter, local enthusiasm doesn't matter, etc.
 
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pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
Constraints defined by who? Yourself, based on what you expect? Your brain processes 100% of the information you believe to be your reality, if that information is capable of being manipulated (it is) or processed incorrectly (it is) then literally anything the mind can process can be wrong (and often is). Ergo any symptom without a physical cause can in fact be caused by the mind, pending alternate explanation.


So if you are shot in the head you can avoid catastrophic effects by thinking about it in the 'right' way?

Also you say "any symptom without a physical cause". That's the whole damn point. You are _presuming_ there is no 'physical cause', hence your argument is circular.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,313
8,640
136
Given that lack of knowledge I really don't understand the basis of all the wild theorising psychiatrists go in for. The whole discipline seems to be built with its foundations floating in mid-air, it seems to me.
Psychiatry didn't dream up that stuff without evidence. Psychiatry is part of the scientific community. Psychoanalysts had patients with inexplicable physical symptoms and the process of psychoanalysis eventually revealed (brought into consciousness) repressed memories and associated feelings by virtue of past, often very long past, traumatic events and situations, eliminating the current physical symptoms. That was a big part of Freud's contributions to the field.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
Psychiatry didn't dream up that stuff without evidence. Psychiatry is part of the scientific community. Psychoanalysts had patients with inexplicable physical symptoms and the process of psychoanalysis eventually revealed (brought into consciousness) repressed memories and associated feelings by virtue of past, often very long past, traumatic events and situations, eliminating the current physical symptoms. That was a big part of Freud's contributions to the field.

Nah. There's evidence that a lot of those 'inexplicable physical symptoms' were due to conditions that had not yet been discovered/understood, particularly neurological conditions. Freudianism is largely nonsense, mostly an upper-class cargo-cult. The question is whether the rest of the field is just as bad - many will claim otherwise, happily dismissing Freud, but insisting _now_ the field is scientific. I'm not convinced. I suspect its like economics - largely ideology.

Its track record is just dismal. From lobotomies to prescribing damaging or addictive psychiatric meds, to the patronising bollocks that is CBT.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,572
8,471
136
You should probably rethink this argument, because it is a complete non sequitur.

In what way?

I was responding to:

Constraints defined by who? Yourself, based on what you expect? Your brain processes 100% of the information you believe to be your reality, if that information is capable of being manipulated (it is) or processed incorrectly (it is) then literally anything the mind can process can be wrong (and often is). Ergo any symptom without a physical cause can in fact be caused by the mind, pending alternate explanation.

The key point there being that "without a physical cause", which, of course, smuggles in the presumption of omniscience and perfect knowledge. How do you KNOW it's "without a physical cause"? Again, that's akin to the arguments for the existence of Gods and demons.
 
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NWRMidnight

Diamond Member
Jun 18, 2001
3,017
2,634
136
Harris has certainly given herself a better chance than Biden would have had, but she's not polling ahead in large enough margins to really secure the EC. Still lagging with indies too.

All that's changed is a Biden blow out loss is looking more like a narrow Harris loss.


She's polling betterr than Obama did against McCain in 2008 in the same time period. I think we are going to see Harris have simular election results as Obama had in 2008. Trump is going to be slaughtered by Harris.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
59,132
13,703
136
Let me tell you, I am being optimistic, but cautiously optimistic. I know all too well how close the election was in the real world in 2020. Your reminder about how actually close 2020 was resonates a lot. I have countered a number of Democrats who have crowed repeatedly how historic Joe Biden's win was in 2020 while totally implying that's the only context, but only taking into account the non-consequential popular vote, and completely ignoring the context of how close the EC was, even when countered with that fact , which is really the only thing of consequence.

Biden did not really inspire in 2020, it was more like a a let's just find a safe moderate person to unite against Trump because we can't stray too far from that narrative and rush losing. And I think there's a decent chance that is correct. But it doesn't change the fact that his candidacy still was a practical candidacy rather than a a monumentous one, like Obama.

But that's very different this election. The seismic shift happening right now is of similar consequence, I feel, to what it was like in 2008. I'm sure part of it is myself being on threads often, which is a nice, mostly maga free social media place. It's more like a spectrum of Democrats, often seen arguing among themselves. Which is a much bigger tent than anything the Republicans have but still. That's what it is.

But the fundraising numbers and the polling changes can't be ignored. The volunteer numbers, the ways the campaign is being run, the attitude, by the campaign itself- these are tangible changes, not just palpable, and I think the widespread energy is quite real. Kamala is a far better candidate then she was in 2020, but on top of that people just needed somebody to believe in. And she's a legitimate accomplished, successful, and strong career woman and politician. And feels like a human fucking being. And inspires unlike probably the most hated two candidates that Biden and Trump were in decades. To top that off Democratic policies are actually more popular, it's just we have lacked the right messenger and message since Barack. Walz was an absolutely perfect choice. Okay we couldn't get Al Franken because we ate our own, but Tim 's not a bad second stringer to him for what we need right now.

Trump is a historically bad candidate. As I said earlier in the campaign, I do believe Biden was one of the biggest reasons Trump was still in this race, and quite competitively so.

I think this campaign team is smarter, in how to deal with the media, More nimble and more in tune to the actual political landscape beneath the Biden Trump paradigm. That are using newer media to get their ideas and message across. We've seen the media go down the tubes, and how pretentious they are while misframing so many political stories.

As someone's tweet I posted earlier from threads said today, with the media's obsession about the first interview, It seems the media is so full of themselves and could be at a similar point as to where they were poo pooing podcasts a decade ago, as a potential form of real information and news and with all the smart takes.

We don't have long to find out, just over 2 months, but I think it's looking solidly good, And the only thing that can stop this is some crazy shenanigans. Kamala will stumble, but I don't think it can be that bad. I think people are going to put in the work.
Even some of the Kopmala/Genocide Joe leftists I know are planning to begrudgingly vote Harris because of the threat posed by Project 2025.
 

JujuFish

Lifer
Feb 3, 2005
11,101
812
136
In what way?

I was responding to:



The key point there being that "without a physical cause", which, of course, smuggles in the presumption of omniscience and perfect knowledge. How do you KNOW it's "without a physical cause"? Again, that's akin to the arguments for the existence of Gods and demons.
Because it's irrelevant to the point at hand. Depression medicine won't save you from a gunshot to the head either.
 
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