Kamala vs the Orange Felon - Presidential Race 2024 - Polls, News, Etc...

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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,094
14,411
146
5 presidents out of 46 have been elected but lost the popular vote.

That’s ~90% of the time the popular voter predicted the EC winner

If I limit it to elections in my lifetime it’s about 71%.

So overall a decent correlation.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,079
709
126
That vid of Swift is the first time I’ve knowingly listened to a song of hers, much less a music video. (My pop influences these days are more like Disturbed and Royal Blood.)

First, it was “cute,” second…she’s kinda skinny.

Just another ear worm.
Pointy elbows, am I right?

Seriously, though, why do you feel the need to comment on her body? What relevance does it have to the discussion?
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,678
8,055
136
While I agree, correlations aren't always 100%. They can be probabilistic.
Probably doesn't mean a whole lot to me. Harris will probably win the popular vote means absolutely nothing to me. Who cares if she wins the popular vote, it doesn't mean she wins the Electoral College. Statistics are a parcel of data that have been analyzed. It provides useful data, it does not determine who wins an Electoral College victory given the actual rules within the Constitution.
Most people don't, or can't, think probabilistically. It should be taught in high school math, perhaps in algebra?
If Harris win 60% of the popular vote, she'll probably win the Electoral College. That's great and all, but it's also possible that she wins 60% and also loses the Electoral College. I guess it's some kind of coping mechanism to look at the popular vote polling, but it sure as shit shouldn't be.
5 presidents out of 46 have been elected but lost the popular vote.

That’s ~90% of the time the popular voter predicted the EC winner

If I limit it to elections in my lifetime it’s about 71%.

So overall a decent correlation.
90%...71%...

And what about the last 20 years of "modern" elections?

Now it's down to 66%.

Do we want to start talking about trends too?

Polls don't matter. The popular vote doesn't matter. It's down to hundredths of a percent in swing states. I've actually done the math on that one right here on these forums. I believe it got the whistle-past-the-graveyard treatment if I remember correctly.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,634
3,506
136
My handle here Indus is actually short for "Industrial Music Lover": Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppy, Ministry, KMFDM, Front242, Nitzer Ebb, Funker Vogt, Wumpscut, Killing Joke etc.

But while I was overseas.. I'd often hear Lady Gaga, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Jon Bonjovi and Katy Perry on full blast.. so I got familiar with their songs. The haters gonna hate hate hate sorta stuck with me as in don't be afraid to be who you are.

However the song I most listen to when I'm down/ depressed is Smothered Hope by Skinny Puppy ! Better than a visit to a shrink!


Oh man, I listened to so much SP in the early 90s!
 
Reactions: Indus

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,794
2,747
136
IF Harris wins 60% of the "national popular vote," she steamrolls to an EC win. Although there is always polling error, these forums would be pretty quiet if we were looking at 60/40 right now.

Anybody who spouts "probably" doesn't mean much simply doesn't understand probability. I DGAF what math you think you've done on this.

Yes, MANY of us here agree this is still a very close election and the outcome is far from determined. That should motivate the Harris campaign, even if it scares us until the days AFTER the election. I truly don't think it's hyperbole to say this is the most important election of my lifetime.
 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,690
3,702
136
Anybody who spouts "probably" doesn't mean much simply doesn't understand probability. I DGAF what math you think you've done on this.
My exact thought but decided to leave it alone because I didn’t feel like teaching a probability class.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,678
8,055
136
IF Harris wins 60% of the "national popular vote," she steamrolls to an EC win. Although there is always polling error, these forums would be pretty quiet if we were looking at 60/40 right now.

Anybody who spouts "probably" doesn't mean much simply doesn't understand probability. I DGAF what math you think you've done on this.

Yes, MANY of us here agree this is still a very close election and the outcome is far from determined. That should motivate the Harris campaign, even if it scares us until the days AFTER the election. I truly don't think it's hyperbole to say this is the most important election of my lifetime.
Harris isn't going to win 60% of the national popular vote. Although she could and could still lose the Electoral College. That's how "probability" works when applied to reality. Unless Harris wins literally every single popular vote, her chance of victory can approach 100% and never get there. I know how probability and statistics work. I know what an asymptote is. If you really believe that probability and the word probably aren't intimately related, you should look into it.

The math I know that I did on the 2020 election and posted on here shows the reality on the ground. Biden won millions more than Trump. In the swing states where it actually matters, he won hundredths of a percentage more than Trump. If Harris can win hundredths of a percentage more than Trump in enough swing states, then she'll win the Electoral College. But not one vote has been counted yet, and the national popular vote doesn't apply to votes cast in swing states.

Looking at the national popular vote polling and deriving comfort from it is a coping mechanism given the reality on the ground per the US Constitution and the Electoral College. It is, again, 100% irrelevant to actual votes cast, and tallied.

Harris winning the popular vote by 4% or 7% doesn't mean she wins the Electoral College. You can run the probability algorithm 10,000,000 or 200,000,000 times and find comfort that her chance of winning the Electoral College has a higher probability the more you run it, but it doesn't mean she wins the Electoral College.
My exact thought but decided to leave it alone because I didn’t feel like teaching a probability class.
I'm good on the math, thanks.
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,794
2,747
136
Telling everyone that you understand probability by not understanding probability.
You do you.

Rest of us know how the Electoral College works, thank you.
 

nickqt

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2015
7,678
8,055
136
Telling everyone that you understand probability by not understanding probability.
You do you.

Rest of us know how the Electoral College works, thank you.
Care to point to where I showed that I don't understand probability?
 

Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
32,066
10,855
136
Harris isn't going to win 60% of the national popular vote. Although she could and could still lose the Electoral College. That's how "probability" works when applied to reality. Unless Harris wins literally every single popular vote, her chance of victory can approach 100% and never get there. I know how probability and statistics work. I know what an asymptote is. If you really believe that probability and the word probably aren't intimately related, you should look into it.

The math I know that I did on the 2020 election and posted on here shows the reality on the ground. Biden won millions more than Trump. In the swing states where it actually matters, he won hundredths of a percentage more than Trump. If Harris can win hundredths of a percentage more than Trump in enough swing states, then she'll win the Electoral College. But not one vote has been counted yet, and the national popular vote doesn't apply to votes cast in swing states.

Looking at the national popular vote polling and deriving comfort from it is a coping mechanism given the reality on the ground per the US Constitution and the Electoral College. It is, again, 100% irrelevant to actual votes cast, and tallied.

Harris winning the popular vote by 4% or 7% doesn't mean she wins the Electoral College. You can run the probability algorithm 10,000,000 or 200,000,000 times and find comfort that her chance of winning the Electoral College has a higher probability the more you run it, but it doesn't mean she wins the Electoral College.

I'm good on the math, thanks.
IIRC the absolute threshold is >>80% PV mathematically guarantees electoral victory. But that's how ridiculous the electoral system is. You can theoretically have as little as 20% of the PV in the exact right places and come away with the presidency.

So to your point, barring an absolute blowout of colossal and ahistoric levels, the PV is basically meaningless because it serves as an *indicator* of a *chance* at winning the presidency
 
Reactions: nickqt

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,094
14,411
146
Yes we all realize the EC sucks. Yes under the worst case scenario it would be possible to win with 11 votes vs 100M+ for the other guy. Or a 538 pt blowout in the EC with 50 more votes than the other guy.

Even under semi-realistic voting scenarios a candidate could win with 23% of the popular vote.
Saying “POLLS DONT MATTER!1!1 THE POPULAR VOTE DOESNT MATTER ONEONE||” isn’t remotely helpful.

Everyone on this board understands the EC determines the president.

However WE WILL NOT FUNDAMENTALLY KNOW WHAT THE EC SAYS UNTIL SOMETIME AFTER THE ELECTION.

Polls are the only thing that provides insight into the race TODAY. They are the ONLY thing that matters if a candidate wants to know how to spend their time and resources TODAY to improve their chances of winning.

Scientific polls are well correlated with the EC. That doesn’t mean they’ll predict the eventual EC outcome it does mean it can predict who has the best chance of an EC win or if a race is close enough that the winner is uncertain. Both cases are useful to a candidate to know now.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,079
709
126
Dude, who shit in your corn flakes this morning?
It's not just today. I see it often in this particular forum. Very rarely is a woman mentioned where her hotness (or lack thereof) isn't mentioned. It feels increasingly gross, especially because objectifying women and (essentially) reducing their worth to how attractive they are is directly out of the Right's playbook. We're supposed to be better than that.

Look, I respect you and your posts, and I understand that this forum is basically a sausage-fest, but I feel that this needs to be called out for the betterment of our particular community.
 

MrPickins

Diamond Member
May 24, 2003
9,079
709
126
You only accidentally drop that word if you are routinely using it when you speak to your in-group or are using it in your head.
This was my exact thought. He's said the two words together so many times and cemented those neural pathways that it's the default ending for "Haitian" in his brain.
 
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