Kamper starts running in VFFs

[kamper]

3 1km runs this week, as planned. I felt a little bit of ToFP around the end of Thursday's job, but 2 days of rest seemed to help that. I'm trying hard to go as slow as possible, to minimize the stress on my feet, but it feels weird. I managed to keep my pace today to 7:09/km.

I got a pretty scandalized look from one woman I passed today. It is just 11C out and wet, so I guess barefoot looks pretty crazy

 

[silverpig]

Is the distance limit in vffs something you feel you could push farther out if you worked on it? I wouldn't be too disappointed with that myself, although I'd probably take the pain on race day for a half marathon.

Yep definitely. My feet don't hurt unless I step on small sharp rocks on the road, and actually prefer the feel of a very hard flat surface under my feet. I think I'd be most comfortable and fastest on a huge pool table.

The limit is definitely on my calves as those muscles cushion a lot of the impact. When they fatigue and get tired, my heel starts hitting the ground pretty hard, even when I land forward on my foot just because my calf provides no resistance. Once that happens it's a few short km until my heels and knees get really sore.

Also, I'm almost completely silent when I run in VFFs... no slapping on the ground at all. It's like, all ninja.

 

[PricklyPete]

3 1km runs this week, as planned. I felt a little bit of ToFP around the end of Thursday's job, but 2 days of rest seemed to help that. I'm trying hard to go as slow as possible, to minimize the stress on my feet, but it feels weird. I managed to keep my pace today to 7:09/km.

I got a pretty scandalized look from one woman I passed today. It is just 11C out and wet, so I guess barefoot looks pretty crazy

Good luck kamper. The mention of ToFP makes me cringe based on my experience with VFF's last summer. I have a marathon in less than a month and then I am thinking about bringing barefoot/VFF training back into the mix. We'll see. I might try something more like the Nike Free's first and work my way down that way. It is just too hard for me to go cold turkey again...my body wants more mileage....it is too much a part of my weekly stress relief.

 

[kamper]

Good luck kamper. The mention of ToFP makes me cringe based on my experience with VFF's last summer. I have a marathon in less than a month and then I am thinking about bringing barefoot/VFF training back into the mix. We'll see. I might try something more like the Nike Free's first and work my way down that way. It is just too hard for me to go cold turkey again...my body wants more mileage....it is too much a part of my weekly stress relief.

My concern with working from the top down in terms of shoe transition is that I'm not sure what its affects are on what seems to be the major bottleneck: foot strength. As long as the shoe is padded, how much are you really strengthening the bones and tendons? For me, coming from a heel strike, doing this would actually be counter-productive I think, because switching to a fore foot strike would certainly strengthen my calves and achilles. That removes the other bottleneck, which would just make it that much easier for me to hurt myself each time I went to a more minimalist shoe.

But you weren't a heel striker to begin with right? So maybe that doesn't even apply.

Well, I will go about it this way, and you go about it that way and we'll compare notes I might still get a pair of in-between shoes for the occasional longer run.

 

[kamper]

3 more 1k runs barefoot this week. I still have a tiny bit of lingering ToFP and plantar tightness, but it's slowly lessening, so I think next week I will start adding 1-200m per run.

It's generally been only a few degrees above freezing lately and it seems like the colder concrete makes the skin on the bottom of my feet more sensitive. I might need to switch back to vffs at some point soon.

I also ran 24k with my dad this morning in my regular trainers and I think I might be doing that more throughout the winter to help pace him in his marathon training (he got a sponsor's exemption for Boston next spring!). So I'm thinking more seriously about picking up a transition shoe like a Kinvara.

 

[rocadelpunk]

Took 6+ months to adjust fully to vff.

I now run 4-5x week with them for 45min + with no negative effects

 

[abaez]

I'm on week 3 now and I absolutely love them. No issues at all whatsoever.

 

[kamper]

I'm on week 3 now and I absolutely love them. No issues at all whatsoever.

Cool. How much are you running in them and how much did you run before? What sort of climate are you in?

 

[kamper]

About 4km this week, in slightly longer runs. Only the first two were barefoot. It was around 7°C and by the end, the bottoms of my feet were very sensitive.

Today it was around 4° so I wussed out and ran in my vffs for the first time since I started barefooting. It's quite interesting how much they forgive. I could scuff my feet on the ground, step on stuff... basically anything but land on my heels. Next week is supposed to be much warmer, so I'll still get some barefooting in before the season is over.

I had two people stop and talk to me this week (one while running, one while walking to the mailbox in my vffs) and tell me they'd seen me running barefoot and wanting to know what's up with that. I guess I'm getting a bit of a reputation around the neighbourhood, and it doesn't help that I basically run around the same little block every time because my runs are so short.

 

[abaez]

I am just doing crossfit with them. Some minor running but nothing big. We actually haven't timed our 5k recently so I would be interested to see what I get.

I'm in socal. Where it was 98 degrees about 5 days ago and now it's raining.

 

[kamper]

Oh that's right, you mentioned the crossfit before. One word of caution, a 5k is probably not safe to do in vffs if you've only been wearing them a few weeks. I'd continue to build up gradually while falling back on trainers if you need to do high impact stuff for longer periods of time (even sprinting and jump rope I'd be careful with for a while yet).

 

[RagingBITCH]

Hate to say it, but I'm back in the VFF boat. I did a 2 miler at a 11 min pace on Tuesday, and an easy 1 miler today after 4 in my normal shoes. Am going to actually transition or add mileage like I'm supposed to. All in all I'm going to be transitioning and training for tri's but would like to run full time in the VFF's by summer/fall of next year.

I forgot what a beating it is on the calves/achilles...they've been pretty tight/sore since Tuesday, but it's a good kind of sore

 

[kamper]

Hate to say it, but I'm back in the VFF boat. I did a 2 miler at a 11 min pace on Tuesday, and an easy 1 miler today after 4 in my normal shoes. Am going to actually transition or add mileage like I'm supposed to. All in all I'm going to be transitioning and training for tri's but would like to run full time in the VFF's by summer/fall of next year.

I forgot what a beating it is on the calves/achilles...they've been pretty tight/sore since Tuesday, but it's a good kind of sore

Good luck! Hope it goes a little better for you this time How long ago did you last try? I looked around for posts where you described you experience and just found a short summary in PrickleyPete's thread. Sounds like you didn't have a whole lot of fun

Oddly enough, I have not experienced any tight calves the entire time I've been doing this. Granted, right now I'm running fairly short distances (hit a mile barefoot for the first time this week), but even back when I began and got above 2 miles, there was nothing.

I do make sure I let my heels touch down and as my legs get tired, I let them hit a bit harder. If that hurts, it's probably a sign to slow down and/or stop for the day.

 

[RagingBITCH]

Good luck! Hope it goes a little better for you this time How long ago did you last try? I looked around for posts where you described you experience and just found a short summary in PrickleyPete's thread. Sounds like you didn't have a whole lot of fun

Oddly enough, I have not experienced any tight calves the entire time I've been doing this. Granted, right now I'm running fairly short distances (hit a mile barefoot for the first time this week), but even back when I began and got above 2 miles, there was nothing.

I do make sure I let my heels touch down and as my legs get tired, I let them hit a bit harder. If that hurts, it's probably a sign to slow down and/or stop for the day.

Man it was probably January of this year, so it had been a while. It wasn't fun because I ignored all common/sane/recommended advice of *slowly transitioning or adding mileage*. I went full bore from Brooks Adrenalines to VFF's for 40+ MPW. No wonder I got injured...it was my own fault. With the way my body has felt during/since Chicago training...it's time for something new.

Well good, sounds like your calves are built/ready to handle it. And agreed on the heels touching down...I actually wonder just how much of an angle I should be touching down at - more forefoot-midfoot, or solely forefoot with a slight heel-down and lift-off? Look forward to more of your postings Keep up the good work!

 

[kamper]

5.4k this week bare foot.

It's not the little stones you have to look out for, it's the really little ones. Ones around 1 or 2mm, smaller than you can see from 6' above. They stick to your feet and eventually get pressed into the skin. If they stick for more than a minute, it's probably worth stopping and rubbing them off. Although I'm sure this happens less as the skin on the bottom of the foot hardens up.

 

[RagingBITCH]

5.4k this week bare foot.

It's not the little stones you have to look out for, it's the really little ones. Ones around 1 or 2mm, smaller than you can see from 6' above. They stick to your feet and eventually get pressed into the skin. If they stick for more than a minute, it's probably worth stopping and rubbing them off. Although I'm sure this happens less as the skin on the bottom of the foot hardens up.

That's the one thing I think I'll never do - totally barefoot. There's way too much crap on the ground here (broken glass, rusty nails, random/loose metal) on the road and in the grass. I just don't trust the surface I'm running on.

 

[kamper]

Just 4.33km this week, all in vffs as it's getting a bit too cold for bare feet now. I only got two runs in. I didn't manage to get out until Wednesday and after that run my feet were stiff for a couple of days so I held off a little. My feet didn't really get all that sore after running barefoot. It's probably just a co-incidence that they did after vff running, but it's had me pondering if maybe it's not.

Also I had to go out and do some hill training in regular shoes because I'm getting too out of shape with all this reduction in distance. I'm thinking more seriously about a pair of kinvaras now, although they'd probably be a terrible shoe in the show.

 

[kamper]

When my feet get stiff after a run (whether barefoot, in vffs or normal shoes), the time I often feel it the most is the next morning, immediately after I get up. It's generally gone by the time I'm done taking a leak.

On a somewhat-related note, yesterday was somewhat warm so I decided to take advantage and do a barefoot run even though my feet were still slightly sore from last week. Not only did my feet not hurt during the run, but they felt better after and there was no stiffness this morning. So, running barefoot -> going well, 2 days with vffs -> stiff, back to barefoot -> feel better. It's hardly conclusive evidence, but it makes me think maybe I'm doing something wrong in vffs that barefoot isn't letting me get away with. Sigh, I'm kind of hoping not to have to start micro-analyzing my gait...

The bad part about yesterday's jog was that I did create a nice little blister on the inside of the ball of my left foot. That could also be a technique issue, but I'm thinking it's more likely due to the fact that the sidewalks were all wet and it softened up the skin on my feets too much.

 

[Kniteman77]

Love my VFF KSO's and the whole minimalist footwear thing in general.

Just a tip I've heard from friends, but the barefoot running tends to spread your foot out to it's more natural non shoe bound position. (both length and width wise) It may not feel like a lot, or seem like a lot, but it could be just enough that your mind is feeling resistance with the VFF's on and subconsciously adjusting by tightening up muscles when they shouldn't be tense.

Try going up a size and seeing if it helps. Not a cheap solution, but worth a shot.

Don't worry about analyzing your gait, just take as much stuff out of your way as possible. Also, I've found with my KSO's that I used to always tighten the strap too much.

Keep us up to date, and good luck sorting it all out.

 

[kamper]

Love my VFF KSO's and the whole minimalist footwear thing in general.

Just a tip I've heard from friends, but the barefoot running tends to spread your foot out to it's more natural non shoe bound position. (both length and width wise) It may not feel like a lot, or seem like a lot, but it could be just enough that your mind is feeling resistance with the VFF's on and subconsciously adjusting by tightening up muscles when they shouldn't be tense.

Try going up a size and seeing if it helps. Not a cheap solution, but worth a shot.

Don't worry about analyzing your gait, just take as much stuff out of your way as possible. Also, I've found with my KSO's that I used to always tighten the strap too much.

Keep us up to date, and good luck sorting it all out.

Nice timing On Wednesday and again today, I loosened the strap to the point that it was just sitting slack. I would have taken it off if it wasn't sewn in at the heel. That definitely seemed to help a bit.

As for the size up, don't think I'll be going that route (read the OP section on sizing). I'll be getting some kind of minimalist non-toe shoe before that. I actually got a pair of Terra Plana Aquas this week for casual wear and they might be the most comfortable shoes I've ever worn. That has me seriously considering the Evos for running, particularly for the winter.

Anyway, about 7.5k this week bf/vff. Still a pathetically small amount of running, but it's slowly getting better. I think I'm going to do either some hill intervals or a 10k tomorrow in regular shoes though.

 

[rocadelpunk]

spoke too soon.

itbs has taken me out for a couple weeks now. Been stretching and got a roller, but I'm still pretty shaky about it.

 

[kamper]

14k in vffs this week. That's almost double last week, which isn't particularly smart, but it's largely because I got 4 runs in this week M-Sun, still two days apart. Next week I should probably be doing a bit less.

My right foot still tends to get a bit sore (both ToFP and plantar fascia) but it's fairly minor and is always gone before the next run.

It was hovering around the freezing point today and my toes got pretty chilly. If I don't toughen up I'm going to have to start looking at minimalist mitten shoes.

 

[kamper]

Just two runs at 3.5k each this week. For the first, I had a chance to go to an indoor track so I could do it barefoot. The track was a weird sort of berber-woven rubber but wasn't too abrasive and the slight bit of cushioning was nice.

 

[kamper]

8k this week in two runs. I'm now going farther than my longest run back when I originally hurt my feet, which is a nice psychological barrier to pass. Now I know that I am making progress.

Some notes on running in the cold:

Yesterday it was -5C (23F) and I ran in my KSOs with no socks. It hadn't snowed in a while so the sidewalks were pretty much clear and dry. I found that my feet actually stayed quite comfortable. My right-foot toes got a bit cold (seems to be a pattern that they get colder than the left) but they weren't bad.

Contrast that with Wednesday, when it was -6C and there was a couple cm of new snow. Most of it was packed down, but some of it was still fresh and some of it was full of salt and all slushy. I was in KSOs with socks and I was very cold because my toes were wet. Huge difference. I'm not surprised that this was uncomfortable but it is interesting that it's only really the wetness that's the problem. I wonder how cold I could go in dry conditions.

It also might have had something to do with the socks squishing my toes and separating them further, but I doubt that had a big effect. I'll have to experiment a bit more...

 

[kamper]

13k last week in three runs. I got some wool Injinjis as a stocking stuffer and they do quite a nice job at keeping the toes warm. I also have a pair of Terra Plana Evo IIs on the way.


I have been running fairly slowly while transitioning, assuming that regaining speed would just be a matter of getting my conditioning back once my feet were tough enough. It occurred to me though, that it might take more work than that. The form I run with now isn't necessarily very efficient for running fast (which for me would be about 5min/km or 8min/mile) and I may have to make a concerted effort to practice running faster over shorter distances. Of course, I'd rather just have fun than focusing on form, so more likely it will just take a long time as I naturally push myself in preparation for races.