Karl Rove possibly tried for perjury?

[bamacre]

Oops

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
White House: Bush Has Confidence in Rove

Good grief. The man should be fired, and put on trial.

Oh, today's Press Briefing was another onslaught of Liar Boy. Liar Boy had to call on some "go-to" reporters to redirect questioning so he could go into his propaganda mode about the war on terror.

More like an onslaught of the NY Times.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kr.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MON JULY 11, 2005 17:21:08 ET XXXXX

NY TIMES FIGHTS BACK: PLANS FRONT SPLASH ON ROVE; REPORTER SITS IN JAIL

Top editors of the NY TIMES made the decision Monday afternoon to turn up the heat on White House adviser Karl Rove.

The TIMES is planning to lead Tuesday editions with growing calls for Rove's resignation, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT, a powerplay in this summer's DC all-star game of high stakes finger pointing and intrigue.

While TIMES reporter Judith Miller remains jailed for refusing to testify about sourcing before a grand jury investigating the outing of a CIA "operative," the paper's editors are splashing Rove's own lack of detailed explanation detailing his press contacts.

"Scott McClellan, Bush's spokesman, repeatedly declined to say whether he stood behind his previous assertions that Rove played no role in the matter or whether the president would follow through on his pledge to fire anyone in his administration found to be involved," reports the NYT's David Johnston, Adam Liptak and Richard Stevenson in their front page lead.

"Democrats demanded the White House provide a full public explanation of any role played by Karl Rove in disclosing the identity two years ago of a CIA operative, turning up the political heat on a long-simmering case just as President Bush heads into a critical period in his second term. But the White House declined to answer any questions about Rove's involvement."

MORE...

OMG. The NY Times - the paper of record - acting in a biased, partisan manner much like the rest of the bitter, unrequited left?

NOOOOOOOOOO. Say it ain't so. Puhleeze tell me it's not twoo!

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Crimson
What point is that exactly? That anyone who disagrees with you spouts "contradictions, distractions, diversions and generalized bullsh8. "?

Wow.. very insightful.. Thanks for contributing to the forum.

You're welcome. Thanks for checking the rest of this thread, especially the earliest pages, to find out how many real links and points I posted before posting that.

Is that a foot in your mouth, or are you just glad to see me? :laugh:

In your 2nd post in the thread, the 3rd page.. you posted:

If you don't have facts to disprove any of the above, and the best you can come up with is petty name calling, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you should STFU until you have something to contribute to the planet better than TasetslikeChickensh8.

This was after TLC made _2_ posts, NONE of them directed at you. Yet you ATTACK him, telling him he doesn't know his ass from a whole in the ground, tell him to STFU, and change his name to "TasetslikeChickensh8.".. I guess thats the contribution you are referring to.

So, instead of asking me if my foot is in my mouth.. maybe you should pull your head out of your ASS. You are a bitter angry troll Harvey... Re-read the first 3 pages of this thread and you will see that YOU were the one who started the attacks.. you routinely cross the line and nothing is ever done.. why is that? I think you need a break from P&N. You are going delusional.

Don't waste your time on Harvey, Crimson. Like I already said, he's his own worst enema.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
White House: Bush Has Confidence in Rove

Good grief. The man should be fired, and put on trial.

Oh, today's Press Briefing was another onslaught of Liar Boy. Liar Boy had to call on some "go-to" reporters to redirect questioning so he could go into his propaganda mode about the war on terror.

More like an onslaught of the NY Times.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kr.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MON JULY 11, 2005 17:21:08 ET XXXXX

NY TIMES FIGHTS BACK: PLANS FRONT SPLASH ON ROVE; REPORTER SITS IN JAIL

Top editors of the NY TIMES made the decision Monday afternoon to turn up the heat on White House adviser Karl Rove.

The TIMES is planning to lead Tuesday editions with growing calls for Rove's resignation, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT, a powerplay in this summer's DC all-star game of high stakes finger pointing and intrigue.

While TIMES reporter Judith Miller remains jailed for refusing to testify about sourcing before a grand jury investigating the outing of a CIA "operative," the paper's editors are splashing Rove's own lack of detailed explanation detailing his press contacts.

"Scott McClellan, Bush's spokesman, repeatedly declined to say whether he stood behind his previous assertions that Rove played no role in the matter or whether the president would follow through on his pledge to fire anyone in his administration found to be involved," reports the NYT's David Johnston, Adam Liptak and Richard Stevenson in their front page lead.

"Democrats demanded the White House provide a full public explanation of any role played by Karl Rove in disclosing the identity two years ago of a CIA operative, turning up the political heat on a long-simmering case just as President Bush heads into a critical period in his second term. But the White House declined to answer any questions about Rove's involvement."

MORE...

OMG. The NY Times - the paper of record - acting in a biased, partisan manner much like the rest of the bitter, unrequited left?

NOOOOOOOOOO. Say it ain't so. Puhleeze tell me it's not twoo!

Hmm...going after a slimey piece of sh*t is now partisan? :roll:

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: bamacre
White House: Bush Has Confidence in Rove

Good grief. The man should be fired, and put on trial.

Oh, today's Press Briefing was another onslaught of Liar Boy. Liar Boy had to call on some "go-to" reporters to redirect questioning so he could go into his propaganda mode about the war on terror.

More like an onslaught of the NY Times.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash3kr.htm

XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX MON JULY 11, 2005 17:21:08 ET XXXXX

NY TIMES FIGHTS BACK: PLANS FRONT SPLASH ON ROVE; REPORTER SITS IN JAIL

Top editors of the NY TIMES made the decision Monday afternoon to turn up the heat on White House adviser Karl Rove.

The TIMES is planning to lead Tuesday editions with growing calls for Rove's resignation, newsroom sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT, a powerplay in this summer's DC all-star game of high stakes finger pointing and intrigue.

While TIMES reporter Judith Miller remains jailed for refusing to testify about sourcing before a grand jury investigating the outing of a CIA "operative," the paper's editors are splashing Rove's own lack of detailed explanation detailing his press contacts.

"Scott McClellan, Bush's spokesman, repeatedly declined to say whether he stood behind his previous assertions that Rove played no role in the matter or whether the president would follow through on his pledge to fire anyone in his administration found to be involved," reports the NYT's David Johnston, Adam Liptak and Richard Stevenson in their front page lead.

"Democrats demanded the White House provide a full public explanation of any role played by Karl Rove in disclosing the identity two years ago of a CIA operative, turning up the political heat on a long-simmering case just as President Bush heads into a critical period in his second term. But the White House declined to answer any questions about Rove's involvement."

MORE...

OMG. The NY Times - the paper of record - acting in a biased, partisan manner much like the rest of the bitter, unrequited left?

NOOOOOOOOOO. Say it ain't so. Puhleeze tell me it's not twoo!

Hmm...going after a slimey piece of sh*t is now partisan? :roll:

They're going after Michael Moore?

 

[conjur]

 

[BBond]

For those of you who still can't seem to figure this one out...

Rove Unfit for Public Office

Whether the courts can and will punish Karl Rove for telling Time Magazine's Matthew Cooper that Joe Wilson's wife was a CIA operative should be beside the point. That's for the courts to decide.

The real question is whether we want a person to occupy a high office in the White House when that person has cynically endangered US national security to take a petty sort of revenge on a whistleblower.

Ambassador Joe Wilson, who once dared Saddam to hang him while wearing a rope around his neck while acting ambassador in Baghdad in fall of 1990, was the first to let the American people know that the Bush administration lied about Iraq's alleged attempt to purchase uranium yellowcake from Niger. Wilson went to that country, investigated the structure of the uranium industry (which is mainly in French hands anyway), and concluded it was impossible. Bush and Cheney had believed a set of forged documents manufactured by a former employee of Italian military intelligence. (In the US, the only major public intellectual with close ties to Italian military intelligence is pro-war gadfly Michael Ledeen of the American Enterprise Institute).

In revenge, Rove tried to discredit Wilson and perhaps also punish him and his family. The purpose of such punishment is always to bully and terrorize other employees, as well as to shut up the whistleblower. Since the Bush administration has done so many illegal things, if Washington insiders started blowing the whistle, there could be a hundred Watergates. Rove let everyone in Washington know that he would destroy anyone who dared step forward. The White House also dealt with former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neil when he blew the whistle on the Bush planning for and Iraq War in January of 2001 (look at the date). They threatened O'Neill with jail time for revealing classified information, even though O'Neill had never been given any. He subsequently fell quiet. It is also said that the Bushies tried to prevent Anthony Zinni, a retired Marine Corps general, from getting any consulting gigs in Washington because he opposed the Iraq war.

But Rove's revenge on Wilson was the ultimate. Plame was undercover as an employee of a phony energy company. She was actually investigating illegal proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. When Rove blew her cover to the US press, everyone who had ever been seen with her in Africa or Asia was put in extreme danger. It is said that some of her contacts may have been killed. Imagine the setback to the US struggle against weapons of mass destruction proliferation that this represents. Rove marched us off to Iraq, where there weren't any. But he disrupted a major effort by the CIA to fight WMD that really did exist.

Moreover, the whole thing only makes sense if Rove is a wild-eyed conspiracy theorist to begin with. Why would it matter that Valerie Plame suggested to the CIA that they send her husband Joe Wilson to Niger? Wilson had excellent credentials for the mission, which the CIA immediately recognized.

Rove can only have thought it would discredit Wilson to associate his mission with the CIA if he viewed the CIA as the enemy. This is the Richard Perle line. If Wilson was sent to Niger on the recommendation of a CIA operative, then he was not an objective ex-ambassador but a CIA plant of some sort, attempting to undermine the Bush administration and the military occupation of Iraq.

This theory is that of a crackpot. The actions are those of a traitor. What is the difference between Robert Hanssen revealing key secret information for money to the Soviets and Karl Rove revealing it to the proliferators for political gain for the Republican Party and the Bush White House? Both are traitors who traded secrets for gain.

A man who would do what Rove did should not be in the White House in any capacity. And no person who tolerates a man like Rove in the White House should be commander in chief of American security.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Wow, what a surprise. Juan Cole, Commondreams, Talkingpointsmemo, and DailyKOS all think Rove should go.

I am shocked to the core they'd even suggest such a thing. What next? Will they suggest Bush be impeached?

:laugh:

 

[BBond]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Wow, what a surprise. Juan Cole, Commondreams, Talkingpointsmemo, and DailyKOS all think Rove should go.

I am shocked to the core they'd even suggest such a thing. What next? Will they suggest Bush be impeached?

:laugh:

Aren't their opinions valid, chicken? Did they offer any information that you can dispute?

 

[Darkhawk28]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Wow, what a surprise. Juan Cole, Commondreams, Talkingpointsmemo, and DailyKOS all think Rove should go.

I am shocked to the core they'd even suggest such a thing. What next? Will they suggest Bush be impeached?

:laugh:

If the witnesses that testified before the grand jury were being truthful about Bush having PRIOR knowledge of the plan to "out" Valerie Plame and did nothing to stop it, then YES, he should be impeached.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Crimson
In your 2nd post in the thread, the 3rd page.. you posted:

If you don't have facts to disprove any of the above, and the best you can come up with is petty name calling, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you should STFU until you have something to contribute to the planet better than TasetslikeChickensh8.

This was after TLC made _2_ posts, NONE of them directed at you. Yet you ATTACK him, telling him he doesn't know his ass from a whole in the ground, tell him to STFU, and change his name to "TasetslikeChickensh8.".. I guess thats the contribution you are referring to.

So, instead of asking me if my foot is in my mouth.. maybe you should pull your head out of your ASS. You are a bitter angry troll Harvey... Re-read the first 3 pages of this thread and you will see that YOU were the one who started the attacks.. you routinely cross the line and nothing is ever done.. why is that? I think you need a break from P&N. You are going delusional.

Cute piece of selective editing while conveniently forgetting to include the fact that my post was directly responsive to TLC's post and included specific facts supported by links that refuted his blather. Since you're short on memory, here's the whole post, including TLC's wonderful first of many references to the "loonie left" and other distractive, irrelevancies in this thread.

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Threads like this one demonstrate precisely how the loonie left is marginalizing itself and why the commom-sense left is distancing itself from them.

Replies like this demonstrate precisely how loonie some self-deluded radical neocons can is, marginalizing themselves from reality, regardless of the facts.

FACTS:

• Robert Novak first disclosed Plame's identity as a CIA covert operative in a column on July 14, 2003:

  Mission to Niger
  Robert Novak
  
  July 14, 2003
  
  WASHINGTON -- The CIA's decision to send retired diplomat Joseph C. Wilson to Africa in February 2002 to investigate possible Iraqi purchases of uranium was made routinely at a low level without Director George Tenet's knowledge. Remarkably, this produced a political firestorm that has not yet subsided.
  
  Wilson's report that an Iraqi purchase of uranium yellowcake from Niger was highly unlikely was regarded by the CIA as less than definitive, and it is doubtful Tenet ever saw it. Certainly, President Bush did not, prior to his 2003 State of the Union address, when he attributed reports of attempted uranium purchases to the British government. That the British relied on forged documents made Wilson's mission, nearly a year earlier, the basis of furious Democratic accusations of burying intelligence though the report was forgotten by the time the president spoke.
  
  Reluctance at the White House to admit a mistake has led Democrats ever closer to saying the president lied the country into war. Even after a belated admission of error last Monday, finger-pointing between Bush administration agencies continued. Messages between Washington and the presidential entourage traveling in Africa hashed over the mission to Niger.
  
  Wilson's mission was created after an early 2002 report by the Italian intelligence service about attempted uranium purchases from Niger, derived from forged documents prepared by what the CIA calls a "con man." This misinformation, peddled by Italian journalists, spread through the U.S. government. The White House, State Department and Pentagon, and not just Vice President Dick Cheney, asked the CIA to look into it.
  
  That's where Joe Wilson came in. His first public notice had come in 1991 after 15 years as a Foreign Service officer when, as U.S. charge in Baghdad, he risked his life to shelter in the embassy some 800 Americans from Saddam Hussein's wrath. My partner Rowland Evans reported from the Iraqi capital in our column that Wilson showed "the stuff of heroism." President George H.W. Bush the next year named him ambassador to Gabon, and President Bill Clinton put him in charge of African affairs at the National Security Council until his retirement in 1998.
  
  Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him. "I will not answer any question about my wife," Wilson told me.
  
  After eight days in the Niger capital of Niamey (where he once served), Wilson made an oral report in Langley that an Iraqi uranium purchase was "highly unlikely," though he also mentioned in passing that a 1988 Iraqi delegation tried to establish commercial contacts. CIA officials did not regard Wilson's intelligence as definitive, being based primarily on what the Niger officials told him and probably would have claimed under any circumstances. The CIA report of Wilson's briefing remains classified.
  
  All this was forgotten until reporter Walter Pincus revealed in the Washington Post June 12 that an unnamed retired diplomat had given the CIA a negative report. Not until Wilson went public on July 6, however, did his finding ignite the firestorm.
  
  During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, Wilson had taken a measured public position -- viewing weapons of mass destruction as a danger but considering military action as a last resort. He has seemed much more critical of the administration since revealing his role in Niger. In the Washington Post July 6, he talked about the Bush team "misrepresenting the facts," asking: "What else are they lying about?"
  
  After the White House admitted error, Wilson declined all television and radio interviews. "The story was never me," he told me, "it was always the statement in (Bush's) speech." The story, actually, is whether the administration deliberately ignored Wilson's advice, and that requires scrutinizing the CIA summary of what their envoy reported. The Agency never before has declassified that kind of information, but the White House would like it to do just that now -- in its and in the public's interest.

• Someone[/b] leaked that information to Novak. The motive appears to be an attempt to discredit or embarrass her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson because he reported to Bush that, after a thorough investigation, there was no evidence that Saddam was attempting.
  
• Disclosling her identity, or that of any other CIA agent is serious breach of national security and a felony.

Keep up the kindergarten commentary, young-uns.

If you don't have facts to disprove any of the above, and the best you can come up with is petty name calling, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you should STFU until you have something to contribute to the planet better than TasetslikeChickensh8. :|

At that point, Rove had not been confirmed as Novak's source, and my post acknowledged that.

Did I go after the accuracy of what TLC said? Yep.

Did I call him for the troll his post made him out to be. Yep again.

Was it responsive to the level of his BS, on topic and supported by facts and sources? Same answer.

Got another problem? If not, try discussing the topic instead of my posts. :laugh:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Wow, what a surprise. Juan Cole, Commondreams, Talkingpointsmemo, and DailyKOS all think Rove should go.

I am shocked to the core they'd even suggest such a thing. What next? Will they suggest Bush be impeached?

:laugh:

Oh, look, more diversion.

I linked to commondreams as it was a quick find to info on the subpoena of Air Force One phone records. Go to http://news.google.com to find a site more to your liking that covers the exact same content.

 

[Darkhawk28]

RNC Talking Point Lies: Rove Investigation "A Partisan Attack"

Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman has issued a statement, acquired by RAW STORY, saying questions about Rove's role in leaking the name of a CIA agent are part of a 'partisan attack.'

The following is a release, along with RNC research they believe supports their position.

#
"It's disappointing that once again, so many Democrat leaders are taking their political cues from the far-left, Moveon wing of the party. The bottom line is Karl Rove was discouraging a reporter from writing a false story based on a false premise and the Democrats are engaging in blatant partisan political attacks." -RNC Chairman Ken Mehlman


Cooper's Own Email Claims Rove Warned Of Potential Inaccuracies In Wilson Information:

"[Time Reporter Matt] Cooper Wrote That Rove Offered Him A 'Big Warning' Not To 'Get Too Far Out On Wilson.' Rove Told Cooper That Wilson's Trip Had Not Been Authorized By 'DCIA' - CIA Director George Tenet - Or Vice President Dick Cheney." (Michael Isikoff, "Matt Cooper's Source," Newsweek, 7/18/05)

Wilson Falsely Claimed That It Was Vice President Cheney Who Sent Him To Niger, But The Vice President Has Said He Never Met Him And Didn't Know Who Sent Him:

Wilson Says He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President's Office. "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. ... The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office." (Joseph C. Wilson, The New York Times, 7/6/03)

Joe Wilson: "What They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby's Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ..." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/3/03)

Vice President Cheney: "I Don't Know Joe Wilson. I've Never Met Joe Wilson. ... And Joe Wilson - I Don't [Know] Who Sent Joe Wilson. He Never Submitted A Report That I Ever Saw When He Came Back." (NBC's "Meet The Press," 9/14/03) CIA Director George Tenet: "In An Effort To Inquire About Certain Reports Involving Niger, CIA's Counter-Proliferation Experts, On Their Own Initiative, Asked An Individual With Ties To The Region To Make A Visit To See What He Could Learn." (Central Intelligence Agency, 7/11/03)

Tenet: "Because This Report, In Our View, Did Not Resolve Whether Iraq Was Or Was Not Seeking Uranium From Abroad, It Was Given A Normal And Wide Distribution, But We Did Not Brief It To The President, Vice-President Or Other Senior Administration Officials." (Central Intelligence Agency, "Statement By George J. Tenet," 7/11/03)

Wilson Denied His Wife Suggested He Travel To Niger, But Documentation Showed She Proposed His Name:

Wilson Claims His Wife Did Not Suggest He Travel To Niger To Investigate Reports Of Uranium Deal; Instead, Wilson Claims It Came Out Of Meeting With CIA To Discuss Report. CNN'S WOLF BLITZER: "Among other things, you had always said, always maintained, still maintain your wife, Valerie Plame, a CIA officer, had nothing to do with the decision to send to you Niger to inspect reports that uranium might be sold from Niger to Iraq. ... Did Valerie Plame, your wife, come up with the idea to send you to Niger?" JOE WILSON: "No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq." (CNN's "Lade Edition," 7/18/04)

But Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Received Not Only Testimony But Actual Documentation Indicating Wilson's Wife Proposed Him For Trip. "Some [CIA Counterproliferation Division, or CPD,] officials could not recall how the office decided to contact the former ambassador, however, interviews and documents provided to the Committee indicate that his wife, a CPD employee, suggested his name for the trip. The CPD reports officer told Committee staff that the former ambassador's wife 'offered up his name' and a memorandum to the Deputy Chief of the CPD on February 12, 2002, from the former ambassador's wife says, 'my husband has good relations with both the PM [prime minister] and the former Minister of Mines (not to mention lots of French contacts), both of whom could possibly shed light on this sort of activity.'" ("Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq," U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

Wilson's Report On Niger Had "Thin" Evidence And Did Not Change Conclusions Of Analysts And Other Reports:

Officials Said Evidence Was "Thin" And His "Homework Was Shoddy." "In the days after Wilson's essay appeared, government officials began to steer reporters away from Wilson's conclusions, raising questions about his veracity and the agency's reasons for sending him in the first place. They told reporters that Wilson's evidence was thin, said his homework was shoddy and suggested that he had been sent to Niger by the CIA only because his wife had nominated him for the job." (Michael Duffy, "Leaking With A Vengeance," Time, 10/13/03) Senate Select Committee On Intelligence Unanimous Report: "Conclusion 13. The Report On The Former Ambassador's Trip To Niger, Disseminated In March 2002, Did Not Change Any Analysts' Assessments Of The Iraq-Niger Uranium Deal." ("Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)

"For Most Analysts, The Information In The Report Lent More Credibility To The Original Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) Report On The Uranium Deal, But State Department Bureau Of Intelligence And Research (IN) Analysts Believed That The Report Supported Their Assessments That Niger Was Unlikely To Be Willing Or Able To Sell Uranium." (Senate Select Committee On Intelligence, "Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Assessments On Iraq, 7/7/04)

CIA Said Wilson's Findings Did Not Resolve The Issue. "Because [Wilson's] report, in our view, did not resolve whether Iraq was or was not seeking uranium from abroad, it was given a normal and wide distribution, but we did not brief it to the president, vice president or other senior administration officials. We also had to consider that the former Nigerien officials knew that what they were saying would reach the U.S. government and that this might have influenced what they said." (Central Intelligence Agency, "Statement By George J. Tenet, Director Of Central Intelligence," Press Release 7/11/03) The Butler Report Claimed That The President's State Of the Union Statement On Uranium From Africa, "Was Well-Founded." "We conclude that, on the basis of the intelligence assessments at the time, covering both Niger and the Democratic Republic of Congo, the statements on Iraqi attempts to buy uranium from Africa in the Government's dossier, and by the Prime Minister in the House of Commons, were well-founded. By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush's State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that: 'The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.' was well-founded." (The Rt. Hon. The Lord Butler Of Brockwell, "Review Of Intelligence, On Weapons Of Mass Destruction," 7/14/04) Sens. Roberts, Bond And Hatch All Dismissed Wilson's Claims:

Sens. Pat Roberts (R-KS), Kit Bond (R-MO) And Orrin Hatch (R-UT) All Stated, "On At Least Two Occasions [Wilson] Admitted That He Had No Direct Knowledge To Support Some Of His Claims And That He Was Drawing On Either Unrelated Past Experiences Or No Information At All." (Select Committee On Intelligence, "Additional Views Of Chairman Pat Roberts, Joined By Senator Christopher S. Bond And Senator Orrin G. Hatch; Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq," U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

"The Former Ambassador, Either By Design Or Through Ignorance, Gave The American People And, For That Matter, The World A Version Of Events That Was Inaccurate, Unsubstantiated, And Misleading." ("Additional Views Of Chairman Pat Roberts, Joined By Senator Christopher S. Bond And Senator Orrin G. Hatch; Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq," U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

"[J]oe Wilson Told Anyone Who Would Listen That The President Had Lied To The American People, That The Vice President Had Lied And That He Had 'Debunked' The Claim That Iraq Was Seeking Uranium From Africa ... Not Only Did He NOT 'Debunk' The Claim, He Actually Gave Some Intelligence Analysts Even More Reason To Believe That It May Be True." ("Additional Views Of Chairman Pat Roberts, Joined By Senator Christopher S. Bond And Senator Orrin G. Hatch; Report On The U.S. Intelligence Community's Prewar Intelligence Assessments On Iraq," U.S. Senate, 7/7/04)

Wilson Tied To The 2004 Kerry Campaign For President:

Wilson Endorsed Kerry In October 2003. "Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson, who accused the Bush administration of manipulating intelligence to exaggerate the threat from Iraq, endorsed Democrat John Kerry for president ... In a conference call with New Hampshire reporters, Wilson said he and Kerry have shared the experience of challenging their government - Wilson when he questioned the 'rush to war' with Iraq, Kerry when he challenged America's role in Vietnam." (David Tirrell-Wysocki, "Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race," The Associated Press, 10/23/03) "Wilson ... Said He Has Long Been A Kerry Supporter And Has Contributed $2,000 To The Campaign This Year. He Said He Has Been Advising Kerry On Foreign Policy For About Five Months And Will Campaign For Kerry, Including A Trip To New Hampshire ..." (David Tirrell-Wysocki, "Former Ambassador Wilson Endorses Kerry In Presidential Race," The Associated Press, 10/23/03) "In Mid-May, [Wilson] Began Talking To Kerry's Advisers About Helping The Campaign; He Made His First Donation May 23. Kerry Himself Had Not Met Wilson Until Tuesday Night At A Campaign Fund-Raiser In Potomac, Md., A Kerry Aide Said ..." (Patrick Healy and Wayne Washington, "In Probe Of CIA Leak, Two Sides See Politics," The Boston Globe, 10/2/03) "[Kerry Advisor Rand] Beers Said Wilson Communicates With Campaign Advisers At Least Once A Week." (Patrick Healy and Wayne Washington, "In Probe Of CIA Leak, Two Sides See Politics," The Boston Globe, 10/2/03)


They're really scraping the bottom of the BS barrel for this drivel.

 

[conjur]

Wilson Falsely Claimed That It Was Vice President Cheney Who Sent Him To Niger, But The Vice President Has Said He Never Met Him And Didn't Know Who Sent Him:

Wilson Says He Traveled To Niger At CIA Request To Help Provide Response To Vice President's Office. "In February 2002, I was informed by officials at the Central Intelligence Agency that Vice President Dick Cheney's office had questions about a particular intelligence report. ... The agency officials asked if I would travel to Niger to check out the story so they could provide a response to the vice president's office." (Joseph C. Wilson, The New York Times, 7/6/03)

Joe Wilson: "What They Did, What The Office Of The Vice President Did, And, In Fact, I Believe Now From Mr. Libby's Statement, It Was Probably The Vice President Himself ..." (CNN's "Late Edition," 8/3/03)

Saying it was "probably" the VP when he didn't know for sure is making a false claim?

BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA

All Wilson knew was that the CIA told him he was going to go to Niger to provide a response for the VP's office.


Wow...that's beyond going out on a limb!


Plus, we have the VP on video being caught in a flat-out lie. We also have video of Rumsfeld being caught in a lie along with Condi and others. This administration just doesn't exhude much, if anything, in the way of truthfulness and honesty.

 

[DealMonkey]

Frankly, I don't see the harm in speculating either way on this Rove issue. Seems like both sides have gone rabid over the potential outcome. Time will tell of course, and I'm reserving MY judgment until the investigation is complete and charges are leveled (if they're leveled).

Lest anyone think I'm a vicious partisan monster.

 

[conjur]

Well, imo, enough evidence surrounds Rove's unethical behavior to be worthy of being fired or, at the least, submitting his resignation.

Seriously, imagine if Clinton's top political advisor had leaked someone's name in retribution for a Republican having chastised the Clinton administration.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: conjur
Well, imo, enough evidence surrounds Rove's unethical behavior to be worthy of being fired or, at the least, submitting his resignation.

While I tend to agree, you're forgetting the administration's famous "loyalty" to each other. I doubt anything will happen unless formal charges are leveled against Rove.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: conjur
Well, imo, enough evidence surrounds Rove's unethical behavior to be worthy of being fired or, at the least, submitting his resignation.

While I tend to agree, you're forgetting the administration's famous "loyalty" to each other. I doubt anything will happen unless formal charges are leveled against Rove.

Oh, I know. That's why the Propagandist has twice refused Rumsfeld's resignation.

The only people whose resignations were gladly accepted were the ones that refused to be yes-men or those that let slip a bit of truth (O'Neill, Lindsey, Whitman, Powell, etc.)

Perle resigned pretty early on but I think that was to avoid a public investigation into his profiteering from the war on terror.

 

[Stifko]

New York Times reporter Judith Miller is in jail for refusing to reveal who in the administration talked to her about Plame.

Cooper had also planned to go to jail rather than talk, but at the last minute he agreed to cooperate with investigators when a source, Rove, gave him permission to do so. Cooper's employer, Time Inc., also turned over Cooper's e-mail and notes.


who is Judith Miller protecting? why would she not want to reveal Rove as the source?
Unless Rove wasn't her source of the leak.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Originally posted by: Stifko
New York Times reporter Judith Miller is in jail for refusing to reveal who in the administration talked to her about Plame.

Cooper had also planned to go to jail rather than talk, but at the last minute he agreed to cooperate with investigators when a source, Rove, gave him permission to do so. Cooper's employer, Time Inc., also turned over Cooper's e-mail and notes.


who is Judith Miller protecting? why would she not want to reveal Rove as the source?
Unless Rove wasn't her source of the leak.

Makes no sense to me either, unless her source was someone different. Or unless she's doing it so the Times can play the victim card, like they are trying to do today.

 

[BBond]

It was Cheney.

 

[conjur]

There were two sources. It's been reported all over the place.


That's why I think Karen Hughes might be involved. Or, it could be Abrams (not like he's a stranger to breaking the law)

 

[daveymark]

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken

Originally posted by: Stifko
New York Times reporter Judith Miller is in jail for refusing to reveal who in the administration talked to her about Plame.

Cooper had also planned to go to jail rather than talk, but at the last minute he agreed to cooperate with investigators when a source, Rove, gave him permission to do so. Cooper's employer, Time Inc., also turned over Cooper's e-mail and notes.


who is Judith Miller protecting? why would she not want to reveal Rove as the source?
Unless Rove wasn't her source of the leak.

Makes no sense to me either, unless her source was someone different. Or unless she's doing it so the Times can play the victim card, like they are trying to do today.

exactly. It's looking more and more like Rove wasn't the source for Miller. Whomever the source is, revealing that source would hurt the Times, which affects their bottom line.

My guess would be the source is none other than Wilson himself.

Of course, thats' speculation, which is what all the BS about Rove is. The media, in their rush to attack the Republican party, has convicted Rove, and they expect something to happen as a result within the WH. If anything, this will strengthen the resolve of the WH and this will elevate Rove's status even more.

Let me know when Rove is acutally convicted of any crime in a court of law.

 

[Thump553]

The fact that Judith Miller remains in jail is almost certainly because of her views regarding the independence of the press and protecting her confidental sources. I don't think it has any bearing on the issue of whether or not Rove was that source. An analogous situation is when the (mostly Jewish and liberal) lawyers of the ACLU took on the case to allow neo-Nazis to march in Muncie, IL-she's swallowing a bitter pill in order to protect what she perceives as a more important freedom.

Frankly, as a long-term registered independent voter, I'm becoming more outraged the more that comes out about this situation. The administration seems to be in a "circle the wagons" mode to protect a treasured insider at the expense of the country. It's shameful and disgusting.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Crimson
In your 2nd post in the thread, the 3rd page.. you posted:

If you don't have facts to disprove any of the above, and the best you can come up with is petty name calling, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you should STFU until you have something to contribute to the planet better than TasetslikeChickensh8.

This was after TLC made _2_ posts, NONE of them directed at you. Yet you ATTACK him, telling him he doesn't know his ass from a whole in the ground, tell him to STFU, and change his name to "TasetslikeChickensh8.".. I guess thats the contribution you are referring to.

So, instead of asking me if my foot is in my mouth.. maybe you should pull your head out of your ASS. You are a bitter angry troll Harvey... Re-read the first 3 pages of this thread and you will see that YOU were the one who started the attacks.. you routinely cross the line and nothing is ever done.. why is that? I think you need a break from P&N. You are going delusional.

Cute piece of selective editing while conveniently forgetting to include the fact that my post was directly responsive to TLC's post and included specific facts supported by links that refuted his blather. Since you're short on memory, here's the whole post, including TLC's wonderful first of many references to the "loonie left" and other distractive, irrelevancies in this thread.

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Threads like this one demonstrate precisely how the loonie left is marginalizing itself and why the commom-sense left is distancing itself from them.

Replies like this demonstrate precisely how loonie some self-deluded radical neocons can is, marginalizing themselves from reality, regardless of the facts.

FACTS:

• Robert Novak first disclosed Plame's identity as a CIA covert operative in a column on July 14, 2003:

  Mission to Niger
  Robert Novak
  
  July 14, 2003
  
  WASHINGTON -- The CIA's decision to send retired diplomat Joseph C. Wilson to Africa in February 2002 to investigate possible Iraqi purchases of uranium was made routinely at a low level without Director George Tenet's knowledge. Remarkably, this produced a political firestorm that has not yet subsided.
  
  Wilson's report that an Iraqi purchase of uranium yellowcake from Niger was highly unlikely was regarded by the CIA as less than definitive, and it is doubtful Tenet ever saw it. Certainly, President Bush did not, prior to his 2003 State of the Union address, when he attributed reports of attempted uranium purchases to the British government. That the British relied on forged documents made Wilson's mission, nearly a year earlier, the basis of furious Democratic accusations of burying intelligence though the report was forgotten by the time the president spoke.
  
  Reluctance at the White House to admit a mistake has led Democrats ever closer to saying the president lied the country into war. Even after a belated admission of error last Monday, finger-pointing between Bush administration agencies continued. Messages between Washington and the presidential entourage traveling in Africa hashed over the mission to Niger.
  
  Wilson's mission was created after an early 2002 report by the Italian intelligence service about attempted uranium purchases from Niger, derived from forged documents prepared by what the CIA calls a "con man." This misinformation, peddled by Italian journalists, spread through the U.S. government. The White House, State Department and Pentagon, and not just Vice President Dick Cheney, asked the CIA to look into it.
  
  That's where Joe Wilson came in. His first public notice had come in 1991 after 15 years as a Foreign Service officer when, as U.S. charge in Baghdad, he risked his life to shelter in the embassy some 800 Americans from Saddam Hussein's wrath. My partner Rowland Evans reported from the Iraqi capital in our column that Wilson showed "the stuff of heroism." President George H.W. Bush the next year named him ambassador to Gabon, and President Bill Clinton put him in charge of African affairs at the National Security Council until his retirement in 1998.
  
  Wilson never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an Agency operative on weapons of mass destruction. Two senior administration officials told me Wilson's wife suggested sending him to Niger to investigate the Italian report. The CIA says its counter-proliferation officials selected Wilson and asked his wife to contact him. "I will not answer any question about my wife," Wilson told me.
  
  After eight days in the Niger capital of Niamey (where he once served), Wilson made an oral report in Langley that an Iraqi uranium purchase was "highly unlikely," though he also mentioned in passing that a 1988 Iraqi delegation tried to establish commercial contacts. CIA officials did not regard Wilson's intelligence as definitive, being based primarily on what the Niger officials told him and probably would have claimed under any circumstances. The CIA report of Wilson's briefing remains classified.
  
  All this was forgotten until reporter Walter Pincus revealed in the Washington Post June 12 that an unnamed retired diplomat had given the CIA a negative report. Not until Wilson went public on July 6, however, did his finding ignite the firestorm.
  
  During the run-up to the invasion of Iraq, Wilson had taken a measured public position -- viewing weapons of mass destruction as a danger but considering military action as a last resort. He has seemed much more critical of the administration since revealing his role in Niger. In the Washington Post July 6, he talked about the Bush team "misrepresenting the facts," asking: "What else are they lying about?"
  
  After the White House admitted error, Wilson declined all television and radio interviews. "The story was never me," he told me, "it was always the statement in (Bush's) speech." The story, actually, is whether the administration deliberately ignored Wilson's advice, and that requires scrutinizing the CIA summary of what their envoy reported. The Agency never before has declassified that kind of information, but the White House would like it to do just that now -- in its and in the public's interest.

• Someone[/b] leaked that information to Novak. The motive appears to be an attempt to discredit or embarrass her husband, Ambassador Joseph Wilson because he reported to Bush that, after a thorough investigation, there was no evidence that Saddam was attempting.
  
• Disclosling her identity, or that of any other CIA agent is serious breach of national security and a felony.

Keep up the kindergarten commentary, young-uns.

If you don't have facts to disprove any of the above, and the best you can come up with is petty name calling, you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground, and you should STFU until you have something to contribute to the planet better than TasetslikeChickensh8. :|

At that point, Rove had not been confirmed as Novak's source, and my post acknowledged that.

Did I go after the accuracy of what TLC said? Yep.

Did I call him for the troll his post made him out to be. Yep again.

Was it responsive to the level of his BS, on topic and supported by facts and sources? Same answer.

Got another problem? If not, try discussing the topic instead of my posts. :laugh:

Well, TLC tried to respond to the topic, and you crossed the line and began personally attacking him.. His opinion, whether right or wrong, should be able to be expressed in this forum without being attacked and belittled by other forum members. There was absolutely NO reason for you to respond in the way you did insulting him. Show a little class for a person in your position, he did nothing to provoke that level of response from you.

Like I said, I think you need some time away from P&N, you've turned into a raving lunatic who is attacking other members for absolutely no reason. Seriously, your response was WAY overboard, but you no longer see what you are doing is wrong.