Karl Rove possibly tried for perjury?

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Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: Taggart
I love it how the left is full of spineless hypocrites. You scream bloody murder when an evil terrorist is chained up for a couple of hours at Gitmo and say that the state has no right to take the life of a murderer, yet you want Karl Rove's blood. Pathetic :disgust:
How are these two issues related? :roll:

The reports of abuse at Gitmo are serious enough to be worth investigation. That's not a Democrat vs. Republican or even a liberal vs. conservative issue. Either is treason, if that is what happened in disclosing Valerie Plame as a covert CIA operative.

These are independent events with independent sets of facts and enough substance behind each story that every American should be concerned about what the truth is in each case, on its own merits.

What kind of upstanding law and order "conservative" would think that serious crimes like these should just be brushed aside in the name of expediency in furthering a political agenda? That would be hypocrisy. :|
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Threads like this one demonstrate precisely how the loonie left is marginalizing itself and why the commom-sense left is distancing itself from them.

Keep up the kindergarten commentary, young-uns.

So, I guess what he did is a-ok with you, I take it? Figures.
Where do my comments give absolution to Rove?

If you want to jump of the deep end with the rest of the fools and trolls prematurely commenting on this story, as if Scary Larry O'Donnell is the final factual word, help yourself.

What next? You going to join Ritter in insisting we're going to bomb Iran and be at war by June 30?

::snicker::

So if you believe what Rove did to be true, then how can this be a product of the "loonie left"?

So when it comes out that Rove WAS the "outer", are you going to come on these boards and say that you were wrong? Or are you going to say that the bitch deserved it?

I'm thinking the latter, for you don't give a crap about treason, pergury or the like because you sir, are a hack of the very worst kind.

Oh tasteslikechicken would care about treason and perjury, but only if it was a democrat that did it. Otherwise, it's just a conspiracy by the liberal media!
 

EatSpam

Diamond Member
May 1, 2005
6,423
0
0
Originally posted by: Moonbeam
Righteous wrath is not something moral people can turn on and off.

Republicans aren't moral... they just play it really well on TV.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
12,726
2,500
126
Originally posted by: Taggart
Originally posted by: Thump553
Treason is a capital offense and Bush has never shown the least bit reluctance to fry prisoners as the governor of Texas. Think he'll put his own Rasputin in the chair?

Originally posted by: konichiwa
If it's true, he should be hanged. Of course it is true, but he won't be hanged...too bad! Would be a nice spectacle...

I love it how the left is full of spineless hypocrites. You scream bloody murder when an evil terrorist is chained up for a couple of hours at Gitmo and say that the state has no right to take the life of a murderer, yet you want Karl Rove's blood. Pathetic :disgust:

Before making such asinine personal attacks, perhaps you should get your accusations correct. While I totally fail to see the connection between treasonous disclosure of America's secret agents and alleged abuses at Gitmo, I ask you to point out ANY comment this "spineless hypocrite" posted about Gitmo or blanket condemnations against capital punishment-there are none. For your information, as an allegedly leftist, who is well aware of the torture, etc. that occurs in prisons the world over, I view the Gitmo situation (as disclosed to date) as a tempest in a teapot.

I stand by my comments-if it turns out Rove did this, then he committed treason for the trivial reason of political spite. If that is true, it totally disgusts me-as it should any rational American, regardless of their political philosophy.

Feel free to issue a public apology for your misguided and baseless personal attack, Taggart.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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86
Originally posted by: Phokus
Oh tasteslikechicken would care about treason and perjury, but only if it was a democrat that did it. Otherwise, it's just a conspiracy by the liberal media!
Right. And your non-partisan stance is so well known in here. :roll:

You'd think the left would have learned not to pop off their mouths after the liberal media stumbled so ineptly with Rathergate and Toiletgate. They don't seem to learn squat though.

Here's hoping Newsweek actually gets it right this time.
 

Jadow

Diamond Member
Feb 12, 2003
5,962
2
0
none of you blind fux calling Rove a traiter bothered to spend 1 second looking into Lawrence O'Donnell the accuser did you? He's a raving liberal, he's executive producer of the West Wing fiction television show. If anyone, O'Donnell is a treasonous bastard.

Here are some of his quotes regarding our troops in Iraq:

MR. O'DONNELL: Look, it's not our job to lie about war to make troops feel good. And I don't care what they feel.

MR. O'DONNELL: I don't care if they're demoralized. They have to go to war and be prepared --

MR. O'DONNELL: I don't care what they feel about the truth of this war. If John Kerry thinks this war is a mistake and if the United States of America elects him president, the troops are going to have to live with that. And they know better than anyone else whether it was a mistake or not.

O'Donnell is a lying, leftist political hack trying to make some hay at Karl Rove's expense.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Edit: And as far as the caring about treason comment, did you make the call to indict kerry for his treasonous act? Well gee, I guess you just don't give a crap, and are a hack of the very worst kind, making apologies for his actions.
And precisely what "treasonous act" are you referring to?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Heh. While I'll agree that the leaker's actions definitely fall short of treason, I think we can all agree that they were scurrilous in the extreme, and probably compromised US intelligence efforts wrt Plame's specialty, WMD's...

Such an act should not go unpunished, nor should perjury in front of a federal grand jury. So we'll just have to wait and see what Fitzgerald has come up with.

If it is Rove, reactions on the Right will probably vary from mouth-foaming raving to catatonic denial. Which is to be expected. The reaction from middle America, from those currently in thrall to the rhetoric of deceit, is likely to be a whole lot less forgiving. Recognition of betrayal is a very bitter emotional state, particularly when the subject has willfully ignored a lot of other indicators. There's a narrow line between love and hate, as they say...
 

joshw10

Senior member
Feb 16, 2004
806
0
0
Originally posted by: Jhhnn
The reaction from middle America, from those currently in thrall to the rhetoric of deceit, is likely to be a whole lot less forgiving. Recognition of betrayal is a very bitter emotional state, particularly when the subject has willfully ignored a lot of other indicators. There's a narrow line between love and hate, as they say...

Middle America didnt know about this before, don't know about it now, and they aren't going to find out about it in the future
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,819
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Taggart
Originally posted by: Thump553
Treason is a capital offense and Bush has never shown the least bit reluctance to fry prisoners as the governor of Texas. Think he'll put his own Rasputin in the chair?

Originally posted by: konichiwa
If it's true, he should be hanged. Of course it is true, but he won't be hanged...too bad! Would be a nice spectacle...

I love it how the left is full of spineless hypocrites. You scream bloody murder when an evil terrorist is chained up for a couple of hours at Gitmo and say that the state has no right to take the life of a murderer, yet you want Karl Rove's blood. Pathetic :disgust:

 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
61
I cruised through a couple of articles about this today. One thing keeps coming up. Both Cooper and Miller have filed paperwork requesting house arrest or minimum security. Miller wants to go to "Camp Cupcake" in Danbury Ct if she can't be confined at home. Cooper wants to go anywhere but the DC Jail. These actions don't sound like people who are about to reveal their sources. In fact, Judith Miller has said that she won't reveal her wource no matter what.

Time, for its part, is going to release a batch of documents but we don't know what is in them.

The only thing we know right now is that a big lib has said he knows who the source is and that he has secondary confirmation. Of course, that second source, whoever he is, isn't jumping up and down to corroburate O'Donnell's claims.

So all of this energy being expended on this thread dedicated to hanging Karl Rove is little more than a giant "what if" and borders on wishful thinking.

Maybe we should all take a breath and see what happens.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
30
86
Originally posted by: TastesLikeChicken
Originally posted by: Phokus
Oh tasteslikechicken would care about treason and perjury, but only if it was a democrat that did it. Otherwise, it's just a conspiracy by the liberal media!
Right. And your non-partisan stance is so well known in here. :roll:

You'd think the left would have learned not to pop off their mouths after the liberal media stumbled so ineptly with Rathergate and Toiletgate. They don't seem to learn squat though.
Would you care to identify any fact or link that proves anything in the above quote?
Here's hoping Newsweek actually gets it right this time.
As a matter of fact, Newsweek's only mistake was not getting a second confirmed source for their story when the first source backed out... AFTER publication.

As a matter of facts, Newsweek was right in all but one detail. U.S. personnel did not "flush a copy of the Quran (Koran) down a toilet. However, this report from the Washington Post makes your statement as worthless as most of what you post:
Pentagon Details Abuse Of Koran
Detainees' Holy Books Were Kicked, Got Wet

By Josh White and Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, June 4, 2005; Page A01

The U.S. military released new details yesterday about five confirmed cases of U.S. personnel mishandling the Koran at the prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, acknowledging that soldiers and interrogators kicked the Muslim holy book, got copies wet, stood on a Koran during an interrogation and inadvertently sprayed urine on another copy.

Brig. Gen. Jay W. Hood, commander of Joint Task Force Guantanamo, who completed the three-week inquiry this week into alleged mishandling of the Koran, confirmed five cases of intentional or unintentional mishandling of the holy book, which appear to be unrelated, from among 19 alleged incidents since the detention facility opened in January 2002. His investigation also found 15 incidents of detainees desecrating Korans.

In a news release from the U.S. Southern Command late yesterday, Hood expanded on statements he made at a Pentagon news briefing last week, when he characterized the incidents as rare, isolated and largely inadvertent. Officials said they have issued more than 1,600 Korans at the facility.

"Mishandling a Koran at Guantanamo Bay is a rare occurrence," Hood said in the statement. "Mishandling of a Koran here is never condoned. When one considers the many thousands of times detainees have been moved and cells have been searched since detention operations first began here in January 2002, I think one can only conclude that respect for detainee religious beliefs was embedded in the culture of [the task force] from the start."

In a statement, White House spokesman Scott McClellan said that "our men and women in the military adhere to the highest standards, including when it comes to respecting and protecting religious freedom."

Detainees, human rights groups and some military personnel have complained about desecration of the Koran at Guantanamo Bay. Tom Wilner, an attorney for 11 Kuwaiti nationals being held at the prison, said yesterday that the number and persistence of reports of Koran abuse from detainees indicate a much broader problem than indicated by the Hood inquiry.

"It's sort of amazing today that we define truth as only when the government confirms something happened," Wilner said. "I think there is no question that, especially in the early days of Guantanamo, there was a persistent pattern of physical abuse and religious discrimination, including desecration of the Koran. . . . But it hasn't been fully looked at."

Investigators were specifically looking into allegations that U.S. personnel had flushed a Koran down a toilet at Guantanamo Bay. Newsweek reported in early May that such an allegation had been confirmed, setting off riots in Muslim nations that left 16 people dead, but then retracted the story. Hood's inquiry determined that no such incident took place.

The probe did find, however, that rumors of such an event swirled around the facility in the summer of 2002 after a detainee dropped his Koran on the floor and other detainees blamed the mishandling on U.S. guards. The story, according to a U.S. Southern Command news release, changed as detainees passed it along, escalating to rumors that U.S. troops ripped pages out of the book and then flushed it.

But the investigation's results also are contrary to a recent claim by a top Pentagon spokesman that there were no credible accounts of Korans being mishandled -- though he added that officials would nevertheless conduct an investigation.

The first case, in February 2002, arose when a detainee complained that guards at Camp X-Ray kicked the Koran of a detainee in a neighboring cell. Though interrogators and guards noted the incident at the time, there was no further investigation.

In another case, in August 2003, two detainees complained to their guards that a number of Korans were wet "because the night shift guards had thrown water balloons on the block." No further details of the incident were provided, but Hood's team determined the complaints to be credible and found "no evidence that the incident, although clearly inappropriate, caused any type of disturbance on the block."

Other confirmed reports included a two-word obscenity being written in the inside cover of a Koran, though investigators were unable to determine who wrote the phrase and concluded it was possible that the complaining detainee -- who was conversant in English -- may have defaced his own book. Another report, in July 2003, detailed an incident in which a contract interrogator stood on a detainee's Koran during an interrogation. The interrogator was fired for a "pattern of unacceptable behavior, an inability to follow direct guidance and poor leadership," according to the news release yesterday.

The most recent, and perhaps strangest, case of mishandling was documented on March 25, 2005, when a detainee complained to the guards that urine came through an air vent in his cell and "splashed on him and his Koran while he laid near the air vent." According to Hood's investigation, the guard who was responsible reported himself to his superiors and was reassigned to gate duty. The detainee was given a new uniform and Koran.

"The guard had left his observation area post and went outside to urinate," according to a summary of the incident. "He urinated near an air vent and the wind blew his urine through the vent into the block."

Hood's investigation also turned up 15 incidents in which detainees mishandled Korans between Nov. 19, 2002, and Feb. 18, 2005. Many of the cases involved detainees ripping up their own Korans, throwing the Koran or its pages out of their cells, or trying to deface a Koran belonging to another detainee. One detainee used his Koran as a pillow, one used pages from it to cover the air vent in his cell, and another ripped up his Koran and handed it to a guard, stating that he had "given up on being a Muslim."

Three of the detainee cases involved spitting or throwing urine on Korans, and in one case, on Jan. 19, 2005, a detainee allegedly "tore up his Koran and tried to flush it down the toilet," according to the report. Four days later, a detainee ripped pages from the book and tried to flush them down the toilet as a protest, because he wanted to be moved to another part of the camp.

Staff writer Michael A. Fletcher in Waco, Tex., contributed to this report.
Congratulations. Once again, you've made a completely useless distinction without a difference.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Tab
When I see this stuff on CNN and MSNBC then we may have a case....

Until then I doubt anything will happen...

7-1-2005 Lawrence O'Donnell, senior MSNBC political analyst, said that the leak came from Karl Rove.

The Supreme Court refused to act on the case of two reporters -- neither of whom reported this story -- for refusing to turn over their notes and sources to a Grand Jury.

In the wake of this refusal, Time announced it was turning over Matt Cooper's notes.
No word from the NY Times on the fate of Judith Miller's notes.

Both reporters hope that the action taken by Time Magazine will save them from jail.
=====================================================
I would love to see Rove sentenced to death for treason.

I don't like seeing that the Times has thrown out free speech by turning in the reporter.
 

shurato

Platinum Member
Sep 24, 2000
2,398
0
76
Whether or not Rove is guilty is not the point here.

Tastelikechicken, that's precisely the point here..you just want to divert the attention away from something possibly damaging to your right wing gods. Get a life man, don't come into a thread that you know what kinds of comments will be in here and then whine about it and stray from the actual topic at hand you slimeball.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
1
61
Originally posted by: shurato
Whether or not Rove is guilty is not the point here.

Tastelikechicken, that's precisely the point here..you just want to divert the attention away from something possibly damaging to your right wing gods. Get a life man, don't come into a thread that you know what kinds of comments will be in here and then whine about it and stray from the actual topic at hand you slimeball.


Let's not get too crazy here. You guys (libs) are the same ones who overlooked everything Clinton did for eight years. And I dare say that he did more to damage our national security by selling technology to N Korea and China than WHOEVER leaked the name of the CIA agent.

That doesn't make what the as yet UNNAMED person in question did right. But to call someone who defends Rove a slimeball is more than a little hypocritical.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: shurato
Whether or not Rove is guilty is not the point here.

Tastelikechicken, that's precisely the point here..you just want to divert the attention away from something possibly damaging to your right wing gods. Get a life man, don't come into a thread that you know what kinds of comments will be in here and then whine about it and stray from the actual topic at hand you slimeball.


Let's not get too crazy here. You guys (libs) are the same ones who overlooked everything Clinton did for eight years. And I dare say that he did more to damage our national security by selling technology to N Korea and China than WHOEVER leaked the name of the CIA agent.

That doesn't make what the as yet UNNAMED person in question did right. But to call someone who defends Rove a slimeball is more than a little hypocritical.

Frankly, if you defend or justify Rove's actions, either in this context or his poltical context, you ARE a slimeball.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
The Newsweek story is apparently accidently online on MSNBC's website early. It looks like things are really going to get going now. This is treasonous behavoir if accurate.

The Rove Factor?
Time magazine talked to Bush's guru for Plame story

By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek

July 11 issue - Its legal appeals exhausted, Time magazine agreed last week to turn over reporter Matthew Cooper's e-mails and computer notes to a special prosecutor investigating the leak of an undercover CIA agent's identity.

Now the story may be about to take another turn. The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House. Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with NEWSWEEK, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove....

But according to Luskin, Rove's lawyer, Rove spoke to Cooper three or four days before Novak's column appeared. Luskin told NEWSWEEK that Rove "never knowingly disclosed classified information" and that "he did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA." Luskin declined, however, to discuss any other details. He did say that Rove himself had testified before the grand jury "two or three times" and signed a waiver authorizing reporters to testify about their conversations with him. "He has answered every question that has been put to him about his conversations with Cooper and anybody else," Luskin said. But one of the two lawyers representing a witness sympathetic to the White House told NEWSWEEK that there was growing "concern" in the White House that the prosecutor is interested in Rove. Fitzgerald declined to comment.

In early October 2003, NEWSWEEK reported that immediately after Novak's column appeared in July, Rove called MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game." But White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters at the time that any suggestion that Rove had played a role in outing Plame was "totally ridiculous." On Oct. 10, McClellan was asked directly if Rove and two other White House aides had ever discussed Valerie Plame with any reporters. McClellan said he had spoken with all three, and "those individuals assured me they were not involved in this."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/
 

Gaard

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2002
8,911
1
0
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: shurato
Whether or not Rove is guilty is not the point here.

Tastelikechicken, that's precisely the point here..you just want to divert the attention away from something possibly damaging to your right wing gods. Get a life man, don't come into a thread that you know what kinds of comments will be in here and then whine about it and stray from the actual topic at hand you slimeball.


Let's not get too crazy here. You guys (libs) are the same ones who overlooked everything Clinton did for eight years. And I dare say that he did more to damage our national security by selling technology to N Korea and China than WHOEVER leaked the name of the CIA agent.

That doesn't make what the as yet UNNAMED person in question did right. But to call someone who defends Rove a slimeball is more than a little hypocritical.
How about if someone who isn't, nor ever was, a Clinton fan calls anyone who defends Rove a slimeball?

Edit: Or for that matter, what if a Republican calls anyone who defends Rove a slimeball? (Are there any? If not, why?)
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Aegeon
The Newsweek story is apparently accidently online on MSNBC's website early. It looks like things are really going to get going now. This is treasonous behavoir if accurate.

The Rove Factor?
Time magazine talked to Bush's guru for Plame story

By Michael Isikoff
Newsweek

July 11 issue - Its legal appeals exhausted, Time magazine agreed last week to turn over reporter Matthew Cooper's e-mails and computer notes to a special prosecutor investigating the leak of an undercover CIA agent's identity.

Now the story may be about to take another turn. The e-mails surrendered by Time Inc., which are largely between Cooper and his editors, show that one of Cooper's sources was White House deputy chief of staff Karl Rove, according to two lawyers who asked not to be identified because they are representing witnesses sympathetic to the White House. Cooper and a Time spokeswoman declined to comment. But in an interview with NEWSWEEK, Rove's lawyer, Robert Luskin, confirmed that Rove had been interviewed by Cooper for the article. It is unclear, however, what passed between Cooper and Rove....

But according to Luskin, Rove's lawyer, Rove spoke to Cooper three or four days before Novak's column appeared. Luskin told NEWSWEEK that Rove "never knowingly disclosed classified information" and that "he did not tell any reporter that Valerie Plame worked for the CIA." Luskin declined, however, to discuss any other details. He did say that Rove himself had testified before the grand jury "two or three times" and signed a waiver authorizing reporters to testify about their conversations with him. "He has answered every question that has been put to him about his conversations with Cooper and anybody else," Luskin said. But one of the two lawyers representing a witness sympathetic to the White House told NEWSWEEK that there was growing "concern" in the White House that the prosecutor is interested in Rove. Fitzgerald declined to comment.

In early October 2003, NEWSWEEK reported that immediately after Novak's column appeared in July, Rove called MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game." But White House spokesman Scott McClellan told reporters at the time that any suggestion that Rove had played a role in outing Plame was "totally ridiculous." On Oct. 10, McClellan was asked directly if Rove and two other White House aides had ever discussed Valerie Plame with any reporters. McClellan said he had spoken with all three, and "those individuals assured me they were not involved in this."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8445696/site/newsweek/

Well, there you have it...

Karl, did you out Valerie Plame?

Karl: No, I didn't.


Case dismissed. :laugh:
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Bush Retains Lawyer

It seems that Bush is worried enough to hire a lawyer after two witnesses have testified in front of a grand jury that Bush himself knew about the outing BEFOREHAND and did nothing to stop it.

Uh oh. This could get ugly quickly.
 

Tab

Lifer
Sep 15, 2002
12,145
0
71
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Bush Retains Lawyer

It seems that Bush is worried enough to hire a lawyer after two witnesses have testified in front of a grand jury that Bush himself knew about the outing BEFOREHAND and did nothing to stop it.

Uh oh. This could get ugly quickly.

Or pretty, depending how you look it at.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: Tab
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Bush Retains Lawyer

It seems that Bush is worried enough to hire a lawyer after two witnesses have testified in front of a grand jury that Bush himself knew about the outing BEFOREHAND and did nothing to stop it.

Uh oh. This could get ugly quickly.

Or pretty, depending how you look it at.

Pretty in that ugly bulldog kind of way.
 

totalcommand

Platinum Member
Apr 21, 2004
2,487
0
0
Originally posted by: Darkhawk28
Bush Retains Lawyer

It seems that Bush is worried enough to hire a lawyer after two witnesses have testified in front of a grand jury that Bush himself knew about the outing BEFOREHAND and did nothing to stop it.

Uh oh. This could get ugly quickly.

Still way too good (and by good, I mean disgusting) to be true!
 
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