Kavanaugh SCOTUS Senate Judicial Hearing

[Victorian Gray]

Al Franken was a blood sacrifice. The Keith Ellison thread is certainly quiet.

"Blood sacrifice", ROFLMAO

• Leeann Tweeden, a radio news anchor, says Franken groped and forcibly kissed her during a USO tour in 2006, before the former comedian was a senator. She says Franken "aggressively stuck his tongue in my mouth" when the pair rehearsed a skit that featured a kiss. A photo also surfaced showing Franken looking at a camera while pretending to grab Tweeden's breasts as she was sleeping while clothed. The senator apologized for the photo but said he remembered the skit incident differently.
• Lindsay Menz says Franken grabbed her buttocks when the pair posed for a photo at the Minnesota State Fair in 2010. Franken later said he did not remember taking the picture but "felt badly" that Menz felt disrespected.
• Two other unidentified women told HuffPost that Franken grabbed their buttocks at separate events in 2007 and 2008. One of the women says Franken suggested that he and she should go to the bathroom together. Franken said he did not remember the events and denied asking anyone to visit the bathroom with him.
• Stephanie Kemplin, an Army veteran, says Franken put his hand on her breast during a USO tour in 2003. In a statement following that accusation, Franken's office said he has not "intentionally engage in" the "kind of conduct" described.
• A woman described as a "former elected official in New England" told the Jezebel website that Franken tried to give her a "wet, open-mouthed kiss" during an event in 2006. The senator has not appeared to respond specifically to the allegation.
• An unnamed former Democratic congressional aide told Politico that the senator tried to forcibly kiss her after he taped a radio show in 2006. She says she avoided the kiss, then heard Franken say "it's my right as an entertainer." Franken called the allegation "categorically not true."
• Tina Dupuy writes in The Atlantic that Franken put his hand around her waist while the pair posed for a photo and squeezed "at least twice" during an event in 2009. The senator has not specifically responded to that allegation.
  
  https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/07/al-franken-news-list-of-sexual-misconduct-allegations.html

 

[fskimospy]

It was certainly convenient to the Presidential ambitions of certain Senators. A party is capable of eating its own.

So if they didn’t oust him they were hypocrites and if they did oust him they were opportunistic hypocrites.

What could they have done in that situation to not be condemned by you?

wut?

That is what Ellison is accused of. Comparing that to rape seems absurd.

 

[fskimospy]

Well, uh, yeah?

"I was raped 36 years ago at a party in Maryland by a member of a local elitest boy's school who later grew up to be a high ranking figure in Washington. Who else could it possibly be but Bret Kavanaugh?"

I mean come on.

Uhmmm.... exactly. Exactly how many of those do you think she knew? Haha

The idea that she talked to her therapist about a different guy she knew, only now to turn that accusation against Kavanaugh is tinfoil hat conspiracy nonsense.

 

[Starbuck1975]

So if they didn’t oust him they were hypocrites and if they did oust him they were opportunistic hypocrites.

What could they have done in that situation to not be condemned by you?

Allowing the ethics hearing to play out would have been a good start.

That is what Ellison is accused of. Comparing that to rape seems absurd.

You’re proving my point. Kavanaugh did not rape anyone. Ellison allegedly likes slapping women around. I don’t hear any Democrat Senators advocating to give his alleged victims a voice. Not to mention that to this day, Democrats still make excuses for Bill Clinton.

It’s a politically opportunistic standard of behavior.

 

[Maxima1]

What happens at Georgetown Prep stays at Georgetown Prep.

 

[fleshconsumed]

To me, an accusation is not evidence. There is nothing to substantiate the claim.

As fskimospy has pointed out, it's eyewitness testimony, and they're admitted in court all the time as evidence.

 

[Jaskalas]

1. Being drunk is never an excuse. Not sure why this even needs to be said.

Being drunk makes people do stupid shit. It's less an excuse as much as an explanation. And what is a teenage boy most likely to do with weakened inhibitions? You shouldn't have to ask. We have a whole culture of teenage boys pressuring teenage girls until they say yes. Throw in alcohol and this sort of assault is more common than you'd like to believe.

The fact that it seems plausible gives the accuser some credibility. The fact that she described it 6 years ago also helps quell the idea that she's opportunistic. We can say with certainty that she believes this happened. And maybe even that she believes Kavanaugh is responsible. But that is not evidence of his guilt. The accusation is not substantiated, and in most such cases it cannot be. That's the problem.

2. "Enough" of an assault that the woman is in therapy taking about it 35 years later

3. Yes, there are standards of character required, especially for a lifetime appointment to such a powerful position.

Al Franken was forced from the Senate, an elected office, for accusations of grabby hands and an inappropriate picture.

This is far more serious charge for a position that had no electoral recourse.

I had words regarding Franken, he should not have resigned.

This incident does not raise to the level of public interest for criminal proceedings. I am not interested in Franken's resignation over this, he is no Roy Moore. Bill O'neill was spot on.

And that was a photo indicating a very different crime than attempted rape. It was far less serious but entirely proven. Apples to Oranges.

My one guiding principle for this subject is that mere accusations are BS. And the hysteria / mob rule surrounding them does not serve our concept of due process under the law. We end people's lives outside a courtroom. At the whim of another. We all have public enemies, we all have axes to grind against someone for something. Is that all it takes? Let others do your dirty work for you?

I am concerned that we know not what we do.

 

[Jaskalas]

As fskimospy has pointed out, it's eyewitness testimony, and they're admitted in court all the time as evidence.

And if I'm sitting as a juror and that's all the prosecutor has, you think I'm going to respect that?

WaPo: Eyewitnesses aren’t as reliable as you might think

Over the past quarter-century, more than 1,400 people convicted of serious crimes have been proved innocent, according to the University of Michigan Law School’s National Registry of Exonerations. But why were these people wrongly convicted? In a great many cases, one significant factor was faulty eyewitness identifications.​

 

[Maxima1]

Being drunk makes people do stupid shit. It's less an excuse as much as an explanation. And what is a teenage boy most likely to do with weakened inhibitions? You shouldn't have to ask. We have a whole culture of teenage boys pressuring teenage girls until they say yes. Throw in alcohol and this sort of assault is more common than you'd like to believe.

It's revealing of his true character.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/h...k/news-story/da1c4739fcb4a4729e459b40099fae31

No excuses: The science behind what’s said while drunk
THOSE weren’t just random thoughts. What your drunk mouth spouts is what your sober mouth doesn’t have the guts to — and science proves it.

 

[Maxima1]

And if I'm sitting as a juror and that's all the prosecutor has, you think I'm going to respect that?

WaPo: Eyewitnesses aren’t as reliable as you might think

Over the past quarter-century, more than 1,400 people convicted of serious crimes have been proved innocent, according to the University of Michigan Law School’s National Registry of Exonerations. But why were these people wrongly convicted? In a great many cases, one significant factor was faulty eyewitness identifications.​

This isn't about a criminal trial. There's a high possibility that he is an attempted rapist, and you still think it's a good idea for him to be given a lifetime position on the highest court of the land?

 

[blackangst1]

nvm

 

[Jhhnn]

He wasn't there. And if he was he doesn't remember. And if anything happened it was just rough horseplay

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/rough-horse-play

 

[esquared]

Just ran across this. It's an article written by Russ Feingold.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...ld-kavanaugh-lies_us_5ba020f6e4b013b0977defff

It's an opinion piece but Feingold was on the Judiciary Committee that questioned him.


"In fact, there’s clear evidence showing that Kavanaugh lied under oath during the 2006 confirmation hearing for his spot on the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. I should know: I was one of the senators on the Judiciary Committee who questioned him."

"Sen. Russ Feingold: My first question is this. Did you know that Judge Pickering planned to solicit letters of support in this manner before he did so? And if not, when did you become aware that Judge Pickering had solicited these letters of support?

Brett Kavanaugh: The answer to the first question, Senator, is no. This was not one of the judicial nominees that I was primarily handling.

But newly released emails show that Kavanaugh appeared to be the primary person handling Pickering’s nomination, at least by 2003, and was heavily involved in pushing for his confirmation as early as March 2002. There are emails showing that Kavanaugh coordinated meetings with and about Pickering; that he drafted remarks, letters to people on the Hill and at least one op-ed for then-White House Counsel Alberto Gonzales about Pickering; that he advised Gonzales on Pickering strategy; and much more.
"

 

[blackangst1]

There are two other males who attended Georgetown the same years he did, who went on to become "highly respected and high-ranking members of society in Washington.”

Richard S. Madaleno, Jr. '83 - Maryland State Senator
Mark Shriver ’82 - Former representative to the Maryland House of Delegates; vice president and managing director of U.S. programs, Save the Children

So maybe it was Kavenaugh, maybe it wasnt.

 

[fskimospy]

There are two other males who attended Georgetown the same years he did, who went on to become "highly respected and high-ranking members of society in Washington.”

Richard S. Madaleno, Jr. '83 - Maryland State Senator
Mark Shriver ’82 - Former representative to the Maryland House of Delegates; vice president and managing director of U.S. programs, Save the Children

So maybe it was Kavenaugh, maybe it wasnt.

Are you fucking kidding me. So now you’re claiming that she mistook Kavanaugh for one of 2 out of the 500 other kids at Georgetown Prep who just so happened to become public officials. (Not even in Washington). The odds of that are astronomical.

I repeat, you have to be fucking kidding me. There is no way anyone actually believes something this dumb.

 

[blackangst1]

Are you fucking kidding me. So now you’re claiming that she mistook Kavanaugh for one of 2 out of the 500 other kids at Georgetown Prep who just so happened to become public officials. (Not even in Washington). The odds of that are astronomical.

I repeat, you have to be fucking kidding me. There is no way anyone actually believes something this dumb.

No, thats not what Im saying. I personally think she's full of shit. But aside from that, she has zero corroborating evidence this ever happened. But should others come forward and say "yeah, she told me this happened the week after" or something similar, Im more than willing to change my mind.

The only reason you believe her is not because Kavanaugh has had a spotty past, but because he's a nominee of a POTUS you dont like. Thats it.

 

[UberNeuman]

No, thats not what Im saying. I personally think she's full of shit. But aside from that, she has zero corroborating evidence this ever happened. But should others come forward and say "yeah, she told me this happened the week after" or something similar, Im more than willing to change my mind.

lol.

 

[fskimospy]

No, thats not what Im saying. I personally think she's full of shit.

I would suggest you reference your last paragraph. There’s no way to know either way at this time and the fact that you’ve jumped to this conclusion indicates to me that you’re evaluating this based on partisanship instead of on the facts.

But aside from that, she has zero corroborating evidence this ever happened. But should others come forward and say "yeah, she told me this happened the week after" or something similar, Im more than willing to change my mind.

So we agree that the idea she happened to mistake him for another person who became a public official is pants on head dumb, right?

The only reason you believe her is not because Kavanaugh has had a spotty past, but because he's a nominee of a POTUS you dont like. Thats it.

I didn’t say I believed her, you’re projecting your own partisanship onto me. What I said was that not believing her for the reason you gave is basically ‘ancient aliens’ type nonsense.

My stance has always been that the accusation is credible and should be investigated, that’s it.

 

[K1052]

Apparently Ford has moved out of her home after receiving death threats and is hiring security for her family.

Really a mystery why she didn't come forward sooner/want to be identified.

 

[Jhhnn]

Are you fucking kidding me. So now you’re claiming that she mistook Kavanaugh for one of 2 out of the 500 other kids at Georgetown Prep who just so happened to become public officials. (Not even in Washington). The odds of that are astronomical.

I repeat, you have to be fucking kidding me. There is no way anyone actually believes something this dumb.

You mean sucker bait, right?

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Her testimony is evidence. Records of her talking to her therapist about the attempted rape is evidence. There is evidence. Perhaps the question you're asking is how much evidence is necessary to axe a nomination, but you cannot in all the seriousness say there is no evidence.

What testimony? So far there has been none. Her therapist notes say there were 4 men in the room, not 2. Maybe before you find someone guilty and smear them for the rest of their life you should have a little more to go on?

 

[K1052]

People on both sides should stop talking about this process like it's a court of law. It's not. Its a court of congressional and public opinion for filling a position.

 

[fskimospy]

You mean sucker bait, right?

The blizzard of crazed conspiracy theories that have come out of conservatives in response to this is truly amazing.

It reminds me of an article I read the other day where Republicans were having great difficulty motivating their voters to turn out in November because whenever they hear the Democrats are currently in a position to take the house they dismiss it as a liberal lie and start coming up with conspiracies about why it’s not true.

The right has just lost it.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Tell that to Al Franken.

Most of the idiots that wanted Al Franken out were Democrats, there was absolutely no legal reason for the idiot to have resigned his position.

 

[Maxima1]

What testimony? So far there has been none. Her therapist notes say there were 4 men in the room, not 2. Maybe before you find someone guilty and smear them for the rest of their life you should have a little more to go on?

There were two boys (Kavanaugh & Judge) in the room and 4 boys altogether at the party.