Kavanaugh SCOTUS Senate Judicial Hearing

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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,570
50,754
136
People on both sides should stop talking about this process like it's a court of law. It's not. Its a court of congressional and public opinion for filling a position.

Right. It’s effecticely a job interview. If you were interviewing someone and then heard a credible account of them being an attempted rapist would your response be ‘well they were never convicted so I’ll ignore that!’? Of course not, that would be insane. Why is a prospective SCOTUS justice held to a lower standard than someone applying for a cubicle job?

Well, we all know the answer to that. Partisanship leads to motivated reasoning.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
I would suggest you reference your last paragraph. There’s no way to know either way at this time and the fact that you’ve jumped to this conclusion indicates to me that you’re evaluating this based on partisanship instead of on the facts.

Facts? What facts? The only fact is she is accusing him. Thats it. And I jumped at nothing. When I first head this story my initial thought was "35 years later? Yeah right.". I didnt "jump" to any conclusion. Its the same when the shit about Obama's birth certificate story was circulating. I believe I actually LOL'd at that. I assumed innocence first. Which my constitution has taught me to do.


So we agree that the idea she happened to mistake him for another person who became a public official is pants on head dumb, right?

I think its just as possible it was Santa Clause who assaulted her as much as it was Kavenaugh. I know I personally dont remember who I dated 35 years ago, much less any of my classmate's names, MUCH LESS random girls from other schools I met at parties. Just saying Kavenaugh isnt the only one fitting her "profile"

I didn’t say I believed her, you’re projecting your own partisanship onto me. What I said was that not believing her for the reason you gave is basically ‘ancient aliens’ type nonsense.

Wanting more than her "story" is certainly not ancient aliens.

My stance has always been that the accusation is credible and should be investigated, that’s it.

And mine is that unless there is verifiable proof, its an accusation and thats it. Im not saying it shouldnt be investigated. Im just saying I dont believe stories like this when theyre first told. I need more than some random person's word. ESPECIALLY in cases like this. Im fine to agree to disagree with you.

I guess Im more of an optimist than you.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Right. It’s effecticely a job interview. If you were interviewing someone and then heard a credible account of them being an attempted rapist would your response be ‘well they were never convicted so I’ll ignore that!’? Of course not, that would be insane. Why is a prospective SCOTUS justice held to a lower standard than someone applying for a cubicle job?

Well, we all know the answer to that. Partisanship leads to motivated reasoning.

Maybe because some of us, myself included, have been let go from companies for stories that arent true. So I for one understand his position. Much different I know but same ballpark.

Oh. And it was later proven the story was made up, and the employer ended up compensating me.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,977
37,120
136
Right. It’s effecticely a job interview. If you were interviewing someone and then heard a credible account of them being an attempted rapist would your response be ‘well they were never convicted so I’ll ignore that!’? Of course not, that would be insane. Why is a prospective SCOTUS justice held to a lower standard than someone applying for a cubicle job?

Well, we all know the answer to that. Partisanship leads to motivated reasoning.

Yes, which is why I think the nomination should be withdrawn or fail. The reality is that Trump is going to get SOME conservative on the court in this slot. It just might not be THIS conservative.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,570
50,754
136
Facts? What facts? The only fact is she is accusing him. Thats it. And I jumped at nothing. When I first head this story my initial thought was "35 years later? Yeah right.". I didnt "jump" to any conclusion. Its the same when the shit about Obama's birth certificate story was circulating. I believe I actually LOL'd at that. I assumed innocence first. Which my constitution has taught me to do.

So the only fact is eyewitness testimony.

If your response is ‘35 years later? Yeah right.’ That indicates you don’t know much about sex crimes as long periods of time passing before people go public with their accusations is more the rule than the exception. I linked an analysis piece from a former sex crime prosecutor where they are very clear that’s a non-issue as to her credibility. In fact, this subject matter expert finds her story quite credible. With that in mind would you revise your opinion?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...anaugh-heres-her-take/?utm_term=.35990bb7ffae

It’s also odd that your constitution says innocence first for Kavanaugh but you were totally comfortable with immediately branding this woman as a liar. Where is the innocence presumption there?

I think its just as possible it was Santa Clause who assaulted her as much as it was Kavenaugh. I know I personally dont remember who I dated 35 years ago, much less any of my classmate's names, MUCH LESS random girls from other schools I met at parties. Just saying Kavenaugh isnt the only one fitting her "profile"

You might remember them better if they tried to rape you. Want to revise your opinion on this too?

The idea that she happened to mistake him for a different boy from the same school who just so happened to become a public official in Maryland is conspiracy theory nonsense.

Wanting more than her "story" is certainly not ancient aliens.

No, the conspiracy theory you cooked up is ancient aliens level.

And mine is that unless there is verifiable proof, its an accusation and thats it. Im not saying it shouldnt be investigated. Im just saying I dont believe stories like this when theyre first told. I need more than some random person's word. ESPECIALLY in cases like this. Im fine to agree to disagree with you.

I guess Im more of an optimist than you.

This isn’t a criminal trial so I don’t bias my thinking one way or the other. When I look at this we have a credible accusation against someone we already know is a dishonest person. For me the standard for a lifetime appointment to an unreviewable court isn’t just ‘we won’t imprison you for this’, it’s unimpeachable integrity. He has lost that and so he should either withdraw or be rejected.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
47,977
37,120
136
There is talk of having female Republican aides do the questioning if she appears in front of the committee instead of the members. Which would be a smart move because I'd bet my life savings those fossils couldn't manage it without it going horribly awry.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Sounds like he may have to be subpoenaed then.

Can you be subpoenaed to a congressional hearing? If so, he likely will do 2 things: 1. Repeat his believe he doesnt remember things the way Ford claims and that Kavenaugh is innocent, and 2. emphasize what he has written in his books, which is that Georgetown U is a huge party school.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
So the only fact is eyewitness testimony.

Oh come on man. Its not based on eyewitness testimony. Its he said she said.

If your response is ‘35 years later? Yeah right.’ That indicates you don’t know much about sex crimes as long periods of time passing before people go public with their accusations is more the rule than the exception. I linked an analysis piece from a former sex crime prosecutor where they are very clear that’s a non-issue as to her credibility. In fact, this subject matter expert finds her story quite credible. With that in mind would you revise your opinion?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/18/former-sex-crimes-prosecutor-analyzed-fords-allegations-against-kavanaugh-heres-her-take/?utm_term=.35990bb7ffae

No, not at all. Considering the way this piece was written, one would think it was some older manipulative sexual predator who assaulted her. It wasnt. It was two teenagers.

Would you revise YOUR opinion if I told you our memories change over time? Its an accepted theory in the psych world. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/am-i-right/201307/your-memory-isnt-what-you-think-it-is

It’s also odd that your constitution says innocence first for Kavanaugh but you were totally comfortable with immediately branding this woman as a liar. Where is the innocence presumption there?

Again, I believe the psych world's opinion that memories change, more so over longer periods of time. She's confused.

You might remember them better if they tried to rape you. Want to revise your opinion on this too?

I would agree with you on this.

This isn’t a criminal trial so I don’t bias my thinking one way or the other. When I look at this we have a credible accusation against someone we already know is a dishonest person. For me the standard for a lifetime appointment to an unreviewable court isn’t just ‘we won’t imprison you for this’, it’s unimpeachable integrity. He has lost that and so he should either withdraw or be rejected.

So youre calling Kavanaugh dishonest? Seriously? Although his rulings have been on the conservative side, only ONE of his cases has ever been overturned. Thats quite an extraordinary record. AFAIK he's not been shown to be "dishonest". Citation?

And for the record...the crazy ass conservative blogs that are misrepresenting Christine's motives as Kavanaugh's mother ruling FOR foreclosure on her parents property is laughable. Kavanough ruled FOR the Ford's, not against.

Lets see if Ford goes to the hearing on Monday. As of now, she hasnt confirmed.
 
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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Kavanaugh is toast. I bet he thought nothing of trying to rape that woman, he was an elite prep-schooler who was slated to go to Harvard or Yale and become a doctor or lawyer. He knew he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. He never thought his victim, just another woman, would ever get any say because he knew conservative men would always hold the power over somebody like this woman. He never thought #MeToo would exist.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,676
5,238
136
And if I'm sitting as a juror and that's all the prosecutor has, you think I'm going to respect that?

WaPo: Eyewitnesses aren’t as reliable as you might think
Over the past quarter-century, more than 1,400 people convicted of serious crimes have been proved innocent, according to the University of Michigan Law School’s National Registry of Exonerations. But why were these people wrongly convicted? In a great many cases, one significant factor was faulty eyewitness identifications.

This is not a criminal trial. Your standard is all fucked up.

Regardless, verbal testimony is common in these cases. It's not a murder where there is all this forensic evidence.

Overall you sound like Cosby's lawyers. Who was convicted on witness testimony btw.




"The trial had the "he said, she said" dynamic that is common to sexual assault trials. Prosecutors had little forensic evidence and relied on the testimony of Constand. In addition, five other women testified that Cosby had drugged and then assaulted them decades ago as prosecutors sought to prove Cosby's actions toward Constand were part of a pattern.

Cosby's defense team launched aggressive attacks on Constand's credibility and said that their sexual interaction was consensual. Constand was a "con artist," they argued, who wanted a piece of Cosby's fortune.

In closing arguments, defense attorney Kathleen Bliss positioned Cosby's legal team as standing up against "witch hunts, lynchings (and) McCarthyism.
""

Do you think Cosby should be set free?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/26/us/bill-cosby-trial/index.html
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Somebody should set up a GoFundMe for Ford's legal expenses. I would donate $100.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Checkmate, Pubes. She wants an FBI investigation before she testifies. So either Kavanaugh gets investigated by the FBI, or this hangs over the head of Kavanaugh during the vote and they try to jam him through. He's screwed either way.


https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/18/politics/ford-letter-fbi/index.html

I dont think so. I, personally, would love to see an investigation. I bet Kavanagugh would too (from your article):

Kavanaugh said in a statement. "I am willing to talk to the Senate Judiciary Committee in any way the committee deems appropriate to refute this false allegation, from 36 years ago, and defend my integrity."
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
70,157
28,800
136
This is going down the same path as the Thomas confirmation process. In the Thomas confirmation, the fact that Thomas was totally unqualified for the Supreme Court was lost in the debate of who believed Anita Hill and who didn't. Likewise, the fact the Kavanaugh is a pro-Presidential power, right wing radical who should never be allowed on the court is being lost as the sexual assault allegation becomes the central debating point.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,929
9,206
136
Ford is saying she won't appear before the Committee unless and until an FBI Investigation has concluded.

This whole thing stinks...and I can't put a finger on what it is, but something about how this letter was leaked seems off and it's gotta be one of the Dems to blame (I don't think it was Feinstein). I feel like Ford is being used as a pawn, a delay tactic to prevent Kavanaugh and whether you believe her or not, that's wrong. I think she's telling a truth, but she had no intention of coming forward until she was dragged unwillingly into the spotlight.

I almost get the sense that there is entirely some other reason that Dems want an FBI investigation (likely just to stall) and they see Ford as nothing more than a means to that end.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
I dont think so. I, personally, would love to see an investigation. I bet Kavanagugh would too (from your article):

Kavanaugh said in a statement. "I am willing to talk to the Senate Judiciary Committee in any way the committee deems appropriate to refute this false allegation, from 36 years ago, and defend my integrity."

God you're dumb.

Do you think the Senate is going to confirm Kavanaugh while he's under FBI investigation, and before the midterms?

Once midterms hit Trump is done for and Kavanaugh will have zero chance even if he is found to be totally innocent (unlikely).
 
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