Kavanaugh SCOTUS Senate Judicial Hearing

[Jaskalas]

Just to be clear, one, you're blaming the victim here, and two, you're saying molesting is fine because TSA does it? Did I get this right?

Teens go to parties to get drunk and then... anyone want to guess?

I'm calling out how normal the setup is. And what the expectations are. Our society tells boys to chase after girls. That when they say no you just pressure them until they say yes. But guess what? A teenage boy has three drives. Hunger, Thirst, and Sex. Two are readily fulfilled. The other is treated as an elusive conquest. The entire situation sets up the threat of rape. Of being pressured and/or forced. And I don't expect drunks to walk the fine line between what is socially acceptable and what is not. Far as I'm concerned they are incapable of making those decisions.

The blame is for everyone, in creating these situations in the first place. Both perp, victim, the accomplices, and rest of the enablers out there in our society. You put sex starved teens in a room with a girl, they'll pressure her for sex. Get them all drunk and they probably won't stop at no. If you haven't noticed, that appears to be an epidemic at college campuses with older teens / young adults.

And yes, heaven forbid I credit them for NOT raping her. The outcome here was much better than so many other tales.

As for TSA, if we sanction such sexual abuse on an industrial scale, you don't think that changes things?

 

[jackstar7]

So you dont hold the possibility her memories are completely fabricated?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/am-i-right/201307/your-memory-isnt-what-you-think-it-is

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...emories-are-remembered-they-can-be-rewritten/

http://www.human-memory.net/processes_recall.html

https://www.healthguidance.org/entry/17590/1/how-your-memory-changes-every-time-you-access-it.html

"“A memory is not simply an image produced by time traveling back to the original event—it can be an image that is somewhat distorted because of the prior times you remembered it. Your memory of an event can grow less precise even to the point of being totally false with each retrieval.”



Sure you dont want to change your opinion?

The possibility? Sure. Do I think that's more likely than that she had this experience? I do not.

Do you think her fabrication is the most likely possibility? Why?

Also worth noting that traumatic memory is a distinct subset of memory.

 

[blackangst1]

The possibility? Sure. Do I think that's more likely than that she had this experience? I do not.

Do you think her fabrication is the most likely possibility? Why?

I believe Ive made my opinion known quite well in this thread.

Also, science.

 

[fleshconsumed]

Teens go to parties to get drunk and then... anyone want to guess?

I'm going to guess... not sexually assault/rape other teens?

How hard can it be so hard to understand? Sure, there is desire to get laid, and one can sweet talk or persuade his/her way into some funky time, and so long as it's consensual all is well, but expectations are no means no, and in no way shape or form locking the door and putting hand over mouth to muffle screams is normal expected behavior anywhere. Don't you think part of the problem is normalizing this kind of behavior by saying it's going to happen and it's expected? Don't you think setting the standard higher would be the right step in solving the problem?

 

[jackstar7]

I believe Ive made my opinion known quite well in this thread.

Also, science.

It's a long thread, so thanks for nothing. EDIT: Ah, you are taking the enlightened position of thinking she's full of shit. Very solid ground you're walking on, dude.

Science doesn't equal right, either, particularly when it comes to how the brain functions. It's just the best guess at the time, so maybe don't overweight it.

 

[Moonbeam]

While she did mention the drunken state of a couple or few people in the letter, she made absolutely no comment on her own sobriety. It seems a reasonable question.

Something the FBI should question her on. But, I hope you aren’t suggesting it’s OK to have sex with an inebriated woman who is resisting.

Reading this thread it strikes me that many of you might have benefitted immensely from having spent a few nights in your formative years in prison. You might remember a little better what it means to be humiliated.

 

[Blackjack200]

Hi rape apologists!

Here's a WAPO column that helpfully aggregates all your excuses for you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ome-interpersonal-verbs-conjugated-by-gender/

 

[Moonbeam]

I believe Ive made my opinion known quite well in this thread.

Also, science.

What science tells me is that there is no way you can have an opinion in this natter that favors in any certain way either party which is why all the evidence one way or the other should be gathered by a thorough investigation. When all that can be discovered is on the table, then is the time the Senate will be able to act on what is known if they have the moral integrity to do so. What you have done is favor the rationalizations of just one side. What good is science if your view is biased to begin with. All the data that can be gathered should be gathered before conclusions and arguments one way or the other should proceed.

The fact that this is being resisted tells you instantly that the Republicans are a joke.

 

[Victorian Gray]

That didn’t take long. Now GOP needs to make sure it is a fair and open forum.

hahahahahahahahahahahahah (ad infinitum)

 

[pcgeek11]

There is now at least one other person who says they heard about it contemporaneously.

I don't think that "hearing about it contemporaneously" is valid as evidence.

 

[ivwshane]

Now throw in a much drunker Booker attempting that same scenario. You think a drunk teen in that situation will understand the fine line between socially expected pressure VS the use of force? I don't expect they would be in any capacity to make those decisions.



A teenage girl went to a party with multiple teenage boys. They were apparently all drunk. What does one expect that outcome to be?
No, I don't get the outrage. Particularly since they had the good sense to stop before they harmed her. Hell, go to an airport. The TSA will molest her just as much.

I've never seen TSA force themselves on someone while covering their mouth in normal day to day operations. Your hyperbole is disgusting.

That's news to me. Did she even claim to be bruised?

Again, you are one demented fuck, as if no bruising means everything is ok. You are like that one congressman that said, "women have a way to shut it down", when speaking of getting pregnant after being raped.

Teens go to parties to get drunk and then... anyone want to guess?

I'm calling out how normal the setup is. And what the expectations are. Our society tells boys to chase after girls. That when they say no you just pressure them until they say yes. But guess what? A teenage boy has three drives. Hunger, Thirst, and Sex. Two are readily fulfilled. The other is treated as an elusive conquest. The entire situation sets up the threat of rape. Of being pressured and/or forced. And I don't expect drunks to walk the fine line between what is socially acceptable and what is not. Far as I'm concerned they are incapable of making those decisions.

The blame is for everyone, in creating these situations in the first place. Both perp, victim, the accomplices, and rest of the enablers out there in our society. You put sex starved teens in a room with a girl, they'll pressure her for sex. Get them all drunk and they probably won't stop at no. If you haven't noticed, that appears to be an epidemic at college campuses with older teens / young adults.

And yes, heaven forbid I credit them for NOT raping her. The outcome here was much better than so many other tales.

As for TSA, if we sanction such sexual abuse on an industrial scale, you don't think that changes things?

You give credit for them them for not completing their attempted rape? Please tell me you are an incel and have never had contact with a female.

You are one disgusting fuck! There really is no redeeming qualities about you righties, some are just better than others at hiding their deplorability.

 

[ivwshane]

I don't think that "hearing about it contemporaneously" is valid as evidence.

Hence the need for an investigation and testimony to the FBI that carries consequences if someone were to lie.

 

[Victorian Gray]

Teens go to parties to get drunk and then... anyone want to guess?

I'm calling out how normal the setup is. And what the expectations are. Our society tells boys to chase after girls. That when they say no you just pressure them until they say yes. But guess what? A teenage boy has three drives. Hunger, Thirst, and Sex. Two are readily fulfilled. The other is treated as an elusive conquest. The entire situation sets up the threat of rape. Of being pressured and/or forced. And I don't expect drunks to walk the fine line between what is socially acceptable and what is not. Far as I'm concerned they are incapable of making those decisions.

The blame is for everyone, in creating these situations in the first place. Both perp, victim, the accomplices, and rest of the enablers out there in our society. You put sex starved teens in a room with a girl, they'll pressure her for sex. Get them all drunk and they probably won't stop at no. If you haven't noticed, that appears to be an epidemic at college campuses with older teens / young adults.

And yes, heaven forbid I credit them for NOT raping her. The outcome here was much better than so many other tales.

As for TSA, if we sanction such sexual abuse on an industrial scale, you don't think that changes things?

"At one point when REDACTED jumped onto the bed the weight on me was substantial. The pile toppled, and the two scrapped with each other. After a few attempts to get away, I was able to take this opportune moment to get up and run across to a hallway bathroom. I locked the bathroom door behind me. Both loudly stumbled down the stair well at which point other persons at the house were talking with them. I exited the bathroom, ran outside of the house and went home."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/16/politics/blasey-ford-kavanaugh-letter-feinstein/index.html

What credit are you referring to again?

 

[pcgeek11]

Just read another very good point. If she’s lying, why is she asking for an FBI investigation that would surely involve interviewing her? Why would someone volunteer to expose themselves to federal felony charges?

Conservatives, in your heart you know she’s probably right. Don’t put party over country yet again. Remember you are Americans first, Republicans second.

The only part that really bothers me is that Many have the opinion that he is already guilty based on a very thin accusation. This is wrong.

For those that are of the mind that he is guilty based on what we know at this time, I hope that they get accused of sexual assault by a woman and have to go through this.

How could you possibly "know she is probably right" based on the thin evidence that is only her accusation.

 

[pcgeek11]

Hence the need for an investigation and testimony to the FBI that carries consequences if someone were to lie.

OK. I never said an investigation wasn't in order.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think that "hearing about it contemporaneously" is valid as evidence.

Of course it is. Why wouldn’t it be?

 

[fskimospy]

The only part that really bothers me is that Many have the opinion that he is already guilty based on a very thin accusation. This is wrong.

For those that are of the mind that he is guilty based on what we know at this time, I hope that they get accused of sexual assault by a woman and have to go through this.

How could you possibly "know she is probably right" based on the thin evidence that is only her accusation.

There’s no need to establish guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, the only question is if it’s more likely than not that she’s correct. Hell, even that isn’t really necessary.

This is a job interview, if you were hiring someone that you can basically never fire for the rest of their life and will have enormous powers what percentage chance do you take that they are a sex offender?

 

[esquared]

The party of deplorables:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-congressman-uses-alleged-kavanaugh-201455007.html

"Rep. Ralph Norman (R-S.C.) opened a debate in his home district Thursday by joking that he almost had to skip it and return to Washington to deal with a new sexual assault allegation concerning the Supreme Court

“Did y’all hear this latest late-breaking news on the Kavanaugh hearings?” Norman asked the crowd at the Kiwanis Club of Rock Hill, South Carolina. “Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out saying she was groped by Abraham Lincoln.”"

No way you are getting them to take care of this situation with attitudes like that.

Effing sack of shit.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

That didn’t take long. Now GOP needs to make sure it is a fair and open forum.

They need to make sure it’s fair. I’m not convinced it needs to be in the open but it would be good.

The problem here is they don’t want fair. They want quick. They want he said she said. Many are on record saying essentially they want her to testify so they can go ahead and vote to confirm. Not weigh her testimony just get to their intended yes vote.

There are several others who should be testifying. The other witnesses alleged to have been there should testify under oath. A letter saying nope don’t know anything is not under oath.

The therapist if the professor permits it should also be considered. Other people who might have been there or who may be able to provide either corroborative or exculpatory information should be welcome.

And god dammit the fbi should reopen the background and help with that process. But no. They are instead saying you will testify under our terms and those terms are “he said she said”. It’s pathetic.

 

[ivwshane]

OK. I never said an investigation wasn't in order.

I didn't say you did. I just explained to you the reason for the investigation.​

 

[ivwshane]

The party of deplorables:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/gop-congressman-uses-alleged-kavanaugh-201455007.html

"Rep. Ralph Norman (R-S.C.) opened a debate in his home district Thursday by joking that he almost had to skip it and return to Washington to deal with a new sexual assault allegation concerning the Supreme Court

“Did y’all hear this latest late-breaking news on the Kavanaugh hearings?” Norman asked the crowd at the Kiwanis Club of Rock Hill, South Carolina. “Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out saying she was groped by Abraham Lincoln.”"

No way you are getting them to take care of this situation with attitudes like that.

Effing sack of shit.

Not a single redeeming quality about them.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

So you dont hold the possibility her memories are completely fabricated?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/am-i-right/201307/your-memory-isnt-what-you-think-it-is

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...emories-are-remembered-they-can-be-rewritten/

http://www.human-memory.net/processes_recall.html

https://www.healthguidance.org/entry/17590/1/how-your-memory-changes-every-time-you-access-it.html

"“A memory is not simply an image produced by time traveling back to the original event—it can be an image that is somewhat distorted because of the prior times you remembered it. Your memory of an event can grow less precise even to the point of being totally false with each retrieval.”



Sure you dont want to change your opinion?

Before you fully hitch your horse to this wagon you might want to look into how traumatic experiences are remembered.

Your articles don’t seem to touch on this aspect of recall.

 

[dainthomas]

“Did y’all hear this latest late-breaking news on the Kavanaugh hearings?” Norman asked the crowd at the Kiwanis Club of Rock Hill, South Carolina. “Ruth Bader Ginsburg came out saying she was groped by Abraham Lincoln.”"

Absolutely vile. The republicans have devolved into the trump-worshipping party of misogynists and amoral apologists for every kind of horrendous behavior. Assault is now a punchline for them.

If the Dems can't overwhelming sweep these people out of power when they're saying stuff like that, then they'll have to look at why they even exist.

 

[blackangst1]

Before you fully hitch your horse to this wagon you might want to look into how traumatic experiences are remembered.

Your articles don’t seem to touch on this aspect of recall.

Like this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4337233/

Traumatic or not memories can change quite a bit over time.

 

[MomentsofSanity]

Like this? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4337233/

Traumatic or not memories can change quite a bit over time.

Do more research. From your own link.

Of course, there are significant methodological limitations to keep in mind when evaluating all laboratory-based research on traumatic memory. Although laboratory research can provide critical insights as a result of tightly controlled experimental designs, it is frequently a poor analog for an event that meets the criteria described in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorder’s (5th Ed.) Criterion A (30). For example, the stress and trauma-induction procedures researchers employ cannot ethically or morally reach the levels people experience in a real-world trauma. Moreover, participants are typically “witnesses” to an experience rather than the “victim” of the experience, the duration of the events is limited and delays are often truncated to meet experimental demands.