Kaveri Refresh "Godavari" performance

[Abwx]

An article at AT about the 7890K and with further interesting info :

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9927/amd-announces-a107890k-apu-and-upgrades-desktop-platforms

The usual slide :

But more interestingly :

 

[Phynaz]

But more interestingly :

What's interesting about AMD saying USB 3.1 and M.2 SATA is upcoming on boards? The fact that AMD is finally catching up to Intel boards that have had them for years?

Honestly, please tell us what you find interesting about that.

 

[Arachnotronic]

What's interesting about AMD saying USB 3.1 and M.2 SATA is upcoming on boards? The fact that AMD is finally catching up to Intel boards that have had them for years?

Honestly, please tell us what you find interesting about that.

I guess if you hate Intel and want an AMD board w/ modern features, this is great.

I would imagine that the number of people who irrationally hate Intel to the point that they will buy inferior product because they hate the idea of their money going to Intel out there is >1, so it's an "interesting" product in that respect...

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

Arachnotron, given certain budget constraints and workloads, AMD is still viable.

I am one very particular edge case: Gentoo Linux, which as you know 1) requires every...single...program...to be compiled from source but 2) as a result of #1 produced very optimized binaries.

GCC seems to be a little less biased against AMD CPUs than ICC or whatever the hell most Windows programs are compiled with, and the Linux kernel is better able to schedule for its bizarre architecture.

Given a fair shake, the 8370E is up there with a Sandy i7 for much cheaper. I could definitely see myself slotting one of those into one of the boards that just got announced here with a modern set of I/O.

This isn't from hatred of Intel. It's just that I can get "good enough for me" performance, specifically thread count, for less money and some clever use of compiler options. Edge cases do exist. Remember my motto, "the right tool for the right job at the right price."

 

[VirtualLarry]

What's interesting about AMD saying USB 3.1 and M.2 SATA is upcoming on boards? The fact that AMD is finally catching up to Intel boards that have had them for years?

Honestly, please tell us what you find interesting about that.

Try not to be so constantly negative towards AMD. I look at it differently - they're actually improving AM3+, which is something.

Wouldn't it be something neat, if Intel improved X79 platform, and added those features?

Edit: And if AMD integrates them into the system chipset, then they will be AHEAD of Intel. (Intel boards require either a third-party or first-party add-on chipset to integrate USB3.1 Gen2 into a motherboard, as it's not integrated by Intel into the system PCH.)

 

[escrow4]

Try not to be so constantly negative towards AMD. I look at it differently - they're actually improving AM3+, which is something.

Wouldn't it be something neat, if Intel improved X79 platform, and added those features?

Edit: And if AMD integrates them into the system chipset, then they will be AHEAD of Intel. (Intel boards require either a third-party or first-party add-on chipset to integrate USB3.1 Gen2 into a motherboard, as it's not integrated by Intel into the system PCH.)

Why improve a creaky old dog in the first place? You can't just keep on bolting something onto a tired old design. AM3(+) is what 7yrs old by now?

 

[Arachnotronic]

Try not to be so constantly negative towards AMD. I look at it differently - they're actually improving AM3+, which is something.

I am not a fan of beating around the bush and BS'ing people. I call a spade a spade every time (and I'll call any company out, I'm equally allergic to BS of all forms) and I really appreciate it when people call it as they see it instead of trying to provide a positive spin to spare people's feelings.

AM3(+) is an ancient dog of a platform that requires a lot of external third party chips for boards using the socket to be anything close to modern, the CPUs that are sold into it are generally not competitive in single-thread performance or in power consumption.

This thing needs to be put out of its misery ASAP with the AM4 platform and anybody objective (i.e. not trying to be "nice" to AMD because they want people to think of them as "objective") will most likely agree.

Wouldn't it be something neat, if Intel improved X79 platform, and added those features?

No. I can't see people who already own x79 boards going out and buying new boards and there is zero reason to buy X79 + CPU new today. X79 was kind of an outdated chipset when it landed and it's only gotten worse over time.

Edit: And if AMD integrates them into the system chipset, then they will be AHEAD of Intel. (Intel boards require either a third-party or first-party add-on chipset to integrate USB3.1 Gen2 into a motherboard, as it's not integrated by Intel into the system PCH.)

AMD isn't building the Zen client chip-set, ASMedia (owned by ASUS) is.

 

[DrMrLordX]

ICC or whatever the hell most Windows programs are compiled with,

Sadly, MSVC is probably used on more apps than ICC. MSVC consistently hurts performance for everyone.

 

[AtenRa]

What's interesting about AMD saying USB 3.1 and M.2 SATA is upcoming on boards? The fact that AMD is finally catching up to Intel boards that have had them for years?

Honestly, please tell us what you find interesting about that.

Actually, Intel finally caught up with AM3+ M2.0 bandwidth of 10GB/s with Skylake.

The only news interesting today is the availability of USB 3.1 and M2.0 ports to FM2+ platform, some AM3+ boards (Asrock) had those for more than a year now.

 

[VirtualLarry]

AM3(+) is an ancient dog of a platform that requires a lot of external third party chips for boards using the socket to be anything close to modern, the CPUs that are sold into it are generally not competitive in single-thread performance or in power consumption.

But there ARE niche cases where AM3+ / FX makes sense, for MT workloads, on a budget, and where ST performance doesn't matter so much.

For those people, platform improvements are welcome.

This thing needs to be put out of its misery ASAP with the AM4 platform and anybody objective (i.e. not trying to be "nice" to AMD because they want people to think of them as "objective") will most likely agree.

Objectively speaking, until Zen releases on AM4, then AM4 will be taking a back-seat to performance vis-a-via AM3+, simply because of available max core count on each platform.

Speaking of Bristol Ridge on AM4, will still be a dual-module / quad-core APU, like FM2/FM2+, as far as I am aware. The only way I could see completely retiring AM3+ at this point, is if there is a true quad-module / octo-core XV or Zen chip released for it. Which likely won't happen until some time until 2017.

So again, given AM3+'s use cases and longevity, platform improvements are IMHO welcome.

I was even thinking of ditching my G4400 SKL OCed to 4.4Ghz for a 1045T Thuban on AM3/AM3+, because of the lack of MT grunt from the dual-core SKL chip. (And a persistent software bug in my favorite browser, that once activated, seems to completely negate the performance advantage of the ST speed of the G4400 OC.)

No. I can't see people who already own x79 boards going out and buying new boards and there is zero reason to buy X79 + CPU new today. X79 was kind of an outdated chipset when it landed and it's only gotten worse over time.

I was speaking to the availability of cheap (under $100) 8C/16T SB Xeon chips available for this platform, which would make a really nice MT rig, if new mobos were available, and with updated platform features.

 

[cbn]

AMD isn't building the Zen client chip-set, ASMedia (owned by ASUS) is.

It might that the 8C/16T consumer Zen (without iGPU) has some I/O already on it.

According to some old slides (of dubious origin) Bristol Ridge is able to use its SoC I/O on AM4 despite there also being the ASMedia I/O hub.

 

[Abwx]

I guess if you hate Intel and want an AMD board w/ modern features, this is great.

I would imagine that the number of people who irrationally hate Intel to the point that they will buy inferior product because they hate the idea of their money going to Intel out there is >1, so it's an "interesting" product in that respect...

You can talk of hate...

In multitasking tasks Intel s CPUs below i7s are not up to an FX, so it looks like you are just deffamating AMD no matter what the numbers say, and irrationality wise you are talking out of expertise in some way, benchmarks wise but also feature wise as there s no Intel chipset that has USB 3.1 Gen2...

Edit : Actualy AMD bought a few millions USB3.1G2 chipsets last quarter to bundle them with their FM2+/AM3+ and likely AM4 chipsets.

 

[Abwx]

Apparently there s already an AM3+ board :

• Supports AMD AM3+/ AM3 Processor
• Dual Channel DDR3, 4 DIMMs
• Fast USB 3.1 with USB Type-C™ - The World’s Next Universal Connector
• PCIe Gen2 x4 M.2 Connectors with up to 20Gb/s Data Transfer (PCIe NVMe & SATA SSD support)
• 2-Way Graphics Support with Exclusive Ultra Durable Metal Shielding over the PCIe Slots
• 115dB SNR HD Audio with Built-in Rear Audio Amplifier
• Killer™ E2200 series Gaming Networks
• High Quality Audio Capacitors and Audio Noise Guard with Ambient LED Trace Path Lighting
• USB DAC-UP ports
• APP Center Including EasyTune™ and Cloud Station™ Utilities
• GIGABYTE UEFI DualBIOS™ Technology

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=5655#ov

And several FM2+ :

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/list.aspx?s=42&jid=12&p=2&v=32

Actually, Intel finally caught up with AM3+ M2.0 bandwidth of 10GB/s with Skylake.

The only news interesting today is the availability of USB 3.1 and M2.0 ports to FM2+ platform, some AM3+ boards (Asrock) had those for more than a year now.

For a budget build the FM2+ plateform is the most advanced, i did read that AMD did pay about 2$ per USB3.1 chipset, this shouldnt increase the MBs prices substancialy.

 

[Phynaz]

FM2+ is crap. Always has been.

 

[Magic Carpet]

FM2+ is crap. Always has been.

I wonder what does the FM2+ abbreviation stand for? Is it an F word or radio station?

With AMx it was easy, AMD Motherboard Generation number.

 

[Shivansps]

The problem with AM3+ is AMD cancelling its low end chipset, AMD allowed OEM to keep using the Nvidia 7025 and 7x0G.

Today we have low end AM3+ boards with 10 year old I/O bacause of that, and belive me, those sell very well, so what they do on high end is irrelevant.

 

[railven]

I wonder what does the FM2+ abbreviation stand for? Is it an F word or radio station?

With AMx it was easy, AMD Motherboard Generation number.

My guess before they had to drop the slogan from adverts: Fusion.

EDIT: Article from TechPowerUP, but oddly no idea where he gets his opinion from considering AMD was trotting along hte Fusion logo in more than just their slogan.

http://www.techpowerup.com/159096/arctic-to-sue-amd-over-fusion-brand-name.html

The interesting part is, AMD doesn't use "Fusion" as a brand name anywhere, except maybe its company slogan "The future is fusion", where "fusion" is used as a verb (fusion of various computing technologies to give a homogenous computing experience), and the company internally referring to its APU architecture as "Fusion", on the outside though, AMD brands its APUs under its Vision processor family, with no "Fusion" branding anywhere, except the company slogan.

He most of forgot these:

I remember seeing those badges on early FM board boxes.

 

[Magic Carpet]

@railven

Think you nailed it. Thanks.

 

[Flash831]

Objectively speaking, until Zen releases on AM4, then AM4 will be taking a back-seat to performance vis-a-via AM3+, simply because of available max core count on each platform.

Speaking of Bristol Ridge on AM4, will still be a dual-module / quad-core APU, like FM2/FM2+, as far as I am aware. The only way I could see completely retiring AM3+ at this point, is if there is a true quad-module / octo-core XV or Zen chip released for it. Which likely won't happen until some time until 2017.

Would it be possible for AMD to use existing AM3+ CPU's (like FX-8370E) and with a little tweaking sell them on AM4-boards? They have done it before with Carrizo-L.
That way they could still sell of old Vishera chips and still make it possible for consumers to update to Zen later on.

 

[DrMrLordX]

FM2+ is crap. Always has been.

Dude. What? The A88x-Pro is a nice board, for 2014 . . . when it came out. It's much nicer than my MSI 790FX-GD70, and I paid a lot less money for the A88x-Pro.

 

[Azuma Hazuki]

FM2+ has its uses. I build customers FM2+/A8-7600 boxen when the H81/Core i3 machine is too pricey but they need a decent thread count. 2C/2T just does not cut it anymore, especially not for users of Chrome, and the A8 is near-i3 performance for near-Pentium pricing.

I'm getting really annoyed with this almost-religious hatred of AMD. Their products have their places. When building for people with limited budgets or fixed incomes, where every last penny counts, a savvy integrator can work wonders. That $35 can double the size of the SSD installed (120 to 240) or simply be passed along as savings.

 

[Phynaz]

Dude. What? The A88x-Pro is a nice board, for 2014 . . . when it came out. It's much nicer than my MSI 790FX-GD70, and I paid a lot less money for the A88x-Pro.

So it's less bad than 790. That doesn't make it good. No matter how you may feel about AMD CPUs, their chipsets have always sucked.

 

[Arachnotronic]

So it's less bad than 790. That doesn't make it good. No matter how you may feel about AMD CPUs, their chipsets have always sucked.

We'll see if ASUS is any better when AM4 rolls around

 

[frozentundra123456]

FM2+ has its uses. I build customers FM2+/A8-7600 boxen when the H81/Core i3 machine is too pricey but they need a decent thread count. 2C/2T just does not cut it anymore, especially not for users of Chrome, and the A8 is near-i3 performance for near-Pentium pricing.

I'm getting really annoyed with this almost-religious hatred of AMD. Their products have their places. When building for people with limited budgets or fixed incomes, where every last penny counts, a savvy integrator can work wonders. That $35 can double the size of the SSD installed (120 to 240) or simply be passed along as savings.

We use core 2 duo machines at my job, and they work perfectly fine for office tasks and web browsing, including chrome. I am sure a modern pentium is faster than those, and should be fine for office use and bowsing.

 

[dark zero]

So it's less bad than 790. That doesn't make it good. No matter how you may feel about AMD CPUs, their chipsets have always sucked.

At least now they are somewhat decent... still, they feel like the socket 775 now. Old, but still useful for the old school.