Kentucky School Shooting

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interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Colorado theatre, colorado planned parenthood. Giffords. Roof. Fort hood. A lot of them live. Just over half last I saw a number on it.

I'm gonna have to do more research. It's quite aways from my imagination so I'm certainly missing something in my introspective experience.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,694
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I'm gonna have to do more research. It's quite aways from my imagination so I'm certainly missing something in my introspective experience.
Think to us it just seems reasonable no one would be able to live with themselves after doing such a thing. Then you remember reason has no part in what they do.
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
Think to us it just seems reasonable no one would be able to live with themselves after doing such a thing. Then you remember reason has no part in what they do.

No it's not reason proper, but the likelihood of death seems quite hard to imagine not appreciating, and often the choice to die is enacted by the shooter himself. Thus, at least in many cases, I think it likely that the choice to die is intentional. That's why I'm interested in it. But if there is ambivalence at least in some cases that may be very meaningful. Perhaps a person appreciates their horrible desires and does not know whether they can live with it so the choice to murder so many serves to answer that question. None of this is probably conscious.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
136
Schools built in the early 20th century were beautiful as well as functional. Then we lost our way and modern schools look much like cut rate prisons.
Being in them you feel like you are in prison, is my memory.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
38,382
8,684
136
If this happened tomorrow with 200 dead school kids does anyone think things would really change? We'd talk about it for a few days, send thoughts and prayers and then move on to the next body count.
We are indeed in a bad way. Don't know about you folks, but I can't imagine voting for a Republican. Never have, either.

Don't feel right perpetuating the modern <---> polar political situation in the USA (is there another country so wedded to the two party paradigm???) but I get the distinct impression (yes, I've been paying attention!) that it's for the most part the Republicans who are stonewalling the obvious need to exercise effective gun control in the USA. Goddamn, we have to disarm. Saying you are going to arm yourself with guns and be responsible for yourself as an answer is bullheaded, erroneous, egregious, dumbfuck, reprehensible.
 
Last edited:
May 13, 2009
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There are a few things that are probably true of this kid and this situation. I don't know anything about this case so these are just my guesses. White kid, poor, abused at home, bullied at school, listens to music his young mind shouldn't be listening to, watches and plays violent movies and games, lives in a society where mass killings make you famous, lives in a society where guns are freely available. It's obvious something is wrong here in America. It's a mix of a lot of things imo.
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
20,479
3,597
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That's an interesting idea. We remembered these things largely by the location instead of the individual. Not sure how that influences this notion.

There is a lot of information out there supporting the idea that mass media coverage only helps to fuel the issue. You can usually find articles supporting that on the same site running 24/7 shows and articles with big scary fonts and headlines about the shooting.

“When the media highlights the magnitude of attacks as ‘the largest’ or as having the most victims, it is imbuing the perpetrator with what might be perceived as a status or power that others want to emulate,” psychologist Peter Langman, an expert on school shootings, told me. By dwelling on and comparing death tolls, he says, news media “run the risk of essentially creating a national ranking, which might lead subsequent perpetrators to kill even more people so that they can be ‘number one’ and go down in history.”

(snip)

This problem is prevalent in another dataset I built in 2015 to research the “Columbine effect”—scores of cases in which mass shooters and would-be attackers have been influenced in various ways by the 1999 high school massacre. More than a dozen cases since then involved perpetrators specifically with ambitions to surpass Columbine’s body count.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/11/mass-shootings-body-counts-media-1/

according to a 2015 paper out of Arizona State University, “Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings,” there are some data that mass shootings often occur in bunches, which indicates that they “infect” new potential murderers, not unlike a disease. “We find significant evidence that mass killings involving firearms are incented by similar events in the immediate past,” the authors wrote. Suicide and terrorism, too, have been found to be likewise contagious. (Interestingly, the authors found “no significant association” between the rate of school and mass shootings and the state’s prevalence of mental illness.)

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/...cas-mass-shooting-epidemic-contagious/545078/

To me it seems like people have long had access to firearms but there seems to be a growing trend of mass shootings indicating that firearms alone are not the cause. Good luck getting anyone to focus on anything but the guns though
 

interchange

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
8,022
2,872
136
There is a lot of information out there supporting the idea that mass media coverage only helps to fuel the issue. You can usually find articles supporting that on the same site running 24/7 shows and articles with big scary fonts and headlines about the shooting.

I have no doubt of that association. I just wonder about the reason being a motivation for fame. Notice or witness fit better with my conceptualization, but since I've never even had the opportunity to talk to someone who's done things like this, it's hard to assert much authority in how it works.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
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Remember Slow's golden rules: whenever guns are involved, the solution to the problem is always everything except guns. Or better yet, to do absolutely nothing.


And your vision is to restrict any right you don't agree with. More rules, more government will solve our problems. If we only allowed people to say nice things there'd be less bullying. Who cares about natural rights!
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
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Guns are natural now? Guess I'll head on down to the gun field and pick one off the vine I guess.

The right to defend yourself is, the Bill of Rights codifies natural rights. Bad guys have guns and have them even when they are outlawed from good guys that follow the laws, like in gun-free zones. I bet this school was a gun free zone. How'd that work out?
 
Feb 16, 2005
14,061
5,405
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The right to defend yourself is, the Bill of Rights codifies natural rights. Bad guys have guns and have them even when they are outlawed from good guys that follow the laws, like in gun-free zones. I bet this school was a gun free zone. How'd that work out?
we get it, the cost of our freedom is paid with the blood of our children, you're totally ok with that, that is eminently clear
 

Nashemon

Senior member
Jun 14, 2012
889
86
91
I feel that it's a mental illness. Not in the sense that the perpetrator should have been institutionalized even before the incident. And perhaps not even one their born with, but one they develop from the thoughts they have and its allowed to consume them. It comes from upbringing, and it's 100% the parents' fault in every case.

When a kid is able to plan something like this out and is able to obtain the weaponry to follow through with such plans, and the parents have no idea that it's going on, no idea that their 15 year old child has guns and ammunition in their bedroom, there is something seriously wrong in their household.

Being involved enough in your child's life to have their trust to tell you what's bothering them, and to guide them through the troubles they are experiencing in school, and ultimately to pick up on the warning signs is the key to stopping these things. Unfortunately, not everyone should have children.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,620
50,819
136
First of all, natural rights do not exist. If you think otherwise when you’re drowning in the ocean or being eaten by a bear be sure to inform Earth that it is violating your natural right to life.

Rights are what we make them, and ther is no requirement for us to keep a right to arm people with instruments of mass murder.
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,619
8,518
136
I'm suspicious of this obession with so-called 'natural rights'. Probably a concensus on some basics is possible, due to our shared biological nature and wiring, but it seems a gross simplification. Many rights appear to be anything but natural, they are products of particular cultures and societies with particular distributions of power.

"Intellectual property" rights, for example, most certainly don't exist in nature, it takes state intervention to prevent people copying you (even more so, to prevent people independently coming up with the same idea you had). I remain puzzled where the right of others to pour filth into the air I have to breath comes from. Or where my right of free movement dissappears to when faced with privitised land everywhere or cars clogging up public highways that I want to walk or cycle on.

Often it seems like things get recognised as 'rights' becuase doing so is in the interests of, or at least not opposed to the interests of, whoever has the most power.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
96,935
16,200
126
The right to defend yourself is, the Bill of Rights codifies natural rights. Bad guys have guns and have them even when they are outlawed from good guys that follow the laws, like in gun-free zones. I bet this school was a gun free zone. How'd that work out?

You heard it here first. According to slow,
Dead children = security of a free state
 
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Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
And your vision is to restrict any right you don't agree with. More rules, more government will solve our problems. If we only allowed people to say nice things there'd be less bullying. Who cares about natural rights!

Owning a gun is not a natural right. Unless you can point to AR-15s growing on trees.

And no, my aim is not to restrict any right I don't like, or to assume that the government will fix everything. But there's a difference between defending a right and taking an absolutist stance on it that clearly doesn't reflect the intent, or doesn't account for changes in technology. Hell, the irony is that you do support restrictions on the 2nd Amendment, because I'm pretty sure you don't think Americans have the right to own rocket launchers, grenades, tanks or combat aircraft. It's just a question of where you're willing to draw the line.

And as people will point out, the US has a bad habit of saying nothing can be done about near-constant mass shootings... in the only country where this kind of mass shooting happens with this kind of frequency. It's as if the problem isn't human nature, but rather an irrational fetishization of gun ownership that attacks anyone who even tries to propose intelligent limits.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Owning a gun is not a natural right. Unless you can point to AR-15s growing on trees.

And no, my aim is not to restrict any right I don't like, or to assume that the government will fix everything. But there's a difference between defending a right and taking an absolutist stance on it that clearly doesn't reflect the intent, or doesn't account for changes in technology. Hell, the irony is that you do support restrictions on the 2nd Amendment, because I'm pretty sure you don't think Americans have the right to own rocket launchers, grenades, tanks or combat aircraft. It's just a question of where you're willing to draw the line.

And as people will point out, the US has a bad habit of saying nothing can be done about near-constant mass shootings... in the only country where this kind of mass shooting happens with this kind of frequency. It's as if the problem isn't human nature, but rather an irrational fetishization of gun ownership that attacks anyone who even tries to propose intelligent limits.


I bet on average, AR15's kill less people in America per year than pencaps. I don't get why the anti-2A side is so obsessed with something that is statistically quite benign.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,635
3,509
136
The right to defend yourself is, the Bill of Rights codifies natural rights. Bad guys have guns and have them even when they are outlawed from good guys that follow the laws, like in gun-free zones. I bet this school was a gun free zone. How'd that work out?

Laws don't always work so we shouldn't have laws? Does that also apply to immigration?
 
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