Keystone XL pipeline - why the fuss?

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senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Bumping this thread rather than starting thread #6 on the subject

Link

Looks like Canada is going to get the investment/jobs to create the pipeline instead of US workers as well as refining the crude.

Alberta to Newfoundland pipeline

Good, let them build it on their own land. Why do they want to export crude through Texas?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Bumping this thread rather than starting thread #6 on the subject

Link

Looks like Canada is going to get the investment/jobs to create the pipeline instead of US workers as well as refining the crude.

Alberta to Newfoundland pipeline

Sounds like a great decision by our administration. Who needs those jobs nor economic benefit of refining crude.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,893
34,856
136
They'll probably ship it to Houston to refine it there anyways.

It's already going there in train cars.

The economic benefits of the pipeline touted by the supporters are mostly bullshit. Pretty much all that oil would have ended up exported as refined product out of country. The economic benefits to the US are negligible.

That said there probably isn't any real good reason to deny the pipeline when many others get built without much fanfare. It became a political football though as can happen.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Refined product is not leaving Houston bound for central/south America by pipeline.

Would you prefer if they had plans to build a pipeline to south america they do that vs shipping it in a ship?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
This decision is getting better. Lets put oil on the high seas vs a pipeline.

By the time they are done arguing over it within Canada, we'll transition to higher fuel economy vehicles, tank oil prices, and make oil sands unprofitable.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
They were saying they were going to build it to BC first for export to China, but got smacked down by their own environmentalists. We'll see how far they get with this new bluff.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Here's a start.

A Law

"All oil on public lands will be drilled on a cost plus basis. All oil produced will be refined and sold in the US and regulated as a utility. Prices will be tied to the total cost of the supply chain plus a profit to be determined and regulated by a utility board who's members cannot have a financial interest in the oil industry and are prohibited by penalty of imprisonment and fine from benefiting after leaving their position.... yada yada yada"

The point would be to take the profit and speculation out of at least part of the equation.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
By the time they are done arguing over it within Canada, we'll transition to higher fuel economy vehicles, tank oil prices, and make oil sands unprofitable.

Article indicates 4-5 years to get it done.

They intend on utilizing some existing pipeline.

Each job generated outside of Alberta could have been a US job.
And the pipeline is longer than what wold be needed to get the crude to the US refineries.

Politics killed jobs.
The Alaska pipeline from the North Slope works in a harsher environment.
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,654
10,517
136
By the time they are done arguing over it within Canada, we'll transition to higher fuel economy vehicles, tank oil prices, and make oil sands unprofitable.

I saw an article this am. The producers are already starting to whine that they can't make any money if oil goes down to the $80's.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Keystone XL pipeline - why the fuss?

I don't understand what's the big deal about the Keystone XL pipeline expansion. We already have a Keystone pipeline from the tar sands in Canada over Nebraska and that crosses over the aquifer that is being quoted as the risk.

Can someone explain to me - without invoking partisan politics - why it's ok that the Keystone pipeline exists and is operational but an expansion of it is bad? I mean if people were honestly worried about the aquifer then how/why did the original pipeline get built?

And if someone invokes job-killing-democrats or oil-funded-republicans in their answer, I'll lose all faith in P&N and I'll go post the question at Reddit.

You obviously don't read the gas threads in here.

But I digress and will try and splain it quick and easy for you.

The existing pipelines are peanuts compared to the monster they want to build.

The amount of oil the Oil Thugs want to export from Canada through the U.S. does not benefit the U.S. in any way.

They are shipping that oil off to Asia, mainly China.

Do you really want to risk U.S. water to give the Oil Thugs more money than they are already getting?

Oh by the way you will pay more to give China that oil through your backyard too.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,084
1,505
126
Really? Via which canal? Panama or Suez?

The majority of refined US products are going to Central and South American countries as well as Western Europe.

Your corrections in mind, half his point holds true that most (or all) of this oil will almost assuredly not reach the US market.
 

cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
3,616
1
81
You obviously don't read the gas threads in here.

But I digress and will try and splain it quick and easy for you.

The existing pipelines are peanuts compared to the monster they want to build.

The amount of oil the Oil Thugs want to export from Canada through the U.S. does not benefit the U.S. in any way.

They are shipping that oil off to Asia, mainly China.

Do you really want to risk U.S. water to give the Oil Thugs more money than they are already getting?

Oh by the way you will pay more to give China that oil through your backyard too.

And a magic wand is waved to produce the pipeline to get the oil from Canada to the shipping platform.

Pipeline has to be manufactured, transported, installed and maintained by someone. Those are jobs that will not be in the US anymore.
 
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Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
It no longer matters, Canada will be building a pipeline to their east coast where supertankers can port, receive the oil from the oil sands region, and transport it to Louisiana and Texas.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/keystone-darned-canada-finds-surprise-154936872.html

Keystone Be Darned: Canada Finds a Surprise Pipeline Route Bypassing Obama

Its end point, a refinery in the blue-collar city of Saint John, New Brunswick, operated by a reclusive Canadian billionaire family, would give Canada's oil-sands crude supertanker access to the same Louisiana and Texas refineries Keystone was meant to supply.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
That is their business. We can only decide for our country. I think they are throwing $10B into a project that may not be economical when it's finished. There is currently an oil glut and prices are dropping.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
17,303
158
106
londojowo.hypermart.net
Yep, it's their business. Too bad Americans will not be needed to build or maintain the northern Keystone XL pipeline that was proposed, they can work at McD's and WallyWorld for peanuts.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Yep, it's their business. Too bad Americans will not be needed to build or maintain the northern Keystone XL pipeline that was proposed, they can work at McD's and WallyWorld for peanuts.

Or they can build something in America. It's not like there is nothing that needs building other than pipelines. High speed rail maybe.
 
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