"Kinsey" out on DVD Tuesday, May 17

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: Riprorin
[ ... ]
Can you please explain to me how Kinsey obtained these data?

Do your own homework. Hint: you won't find honest answers when you limit your research to religious propaganda sites.

Can you please explain to me how your hate-mongering is consistent with the teachings of Christ, teachings you claim to follow ... when it fits your extremist agenda?

Can you dispense with the diversionary tactics and answer the question?

Sorry, I'm not about to indulge your duhversion attempt. Your question does not interest me; if you truly cared about the answer, you would look for it yourself

Can you answer my question, a question that is the very heart of my OP? Kinsey threatens your ignorant, Puritan repression of sexuality, thus undermining the Church's control of its flock. I get that. What I don't get is how people like you, people who claim to follow Christ, can turn your back on Him to wage such campaigns of lies and hate. How do you rationalize such un-Christian behavior?

I don't expect you to really answer my question, of course. You never do. If there is a God, however, someday you will have to answer to Him. If you truly believe in Christ, you must believe that you will someday stand before the Book of Life. How are you going to justify to God the ways you've perverted His words, and the hurtful things you've done in His name? How do you plan to evade His judgment?

He will spend eternity in purgatory IMHO as will all the other would be Jesus Christ Press Secretaries.

 

[imperium95]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Take a deep breath, please.

Oh, whew. Thanks for being the voice of reason there, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Certainly not. It's good to question the methods for gathering data. Also, Red Dawn accused you of making "knee Jerk allegations", which I would argue is different than "waging a campaign of lies and hate" as you suggested. And he probobly got the idea that you aren't to interested in actually knowing how Kinsey got his data because earlier you posted:

Do you think that The Kinsey Institute's data on child orgasms were concocted or were they results of child molestation?

Which seems to imply that you plan to argue that the data was either made up (a bad thing) or came from child molestation (also a bad thing).

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: imperium95

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Take a deep breath, please.

Oh, whew. Thanks for being the voice of reason there, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Certainly not. It's good to question the methods for gathering data. Also, Red Dawn accused you of making "knee Jerk allegations", which I would argue is different than "waging a campaign of lies and hate" as you suggested. And he probobly got the idea that you aren't to interested in actually knowing how Kinsey got his data because earlier you posted:

Do you think that The Kinsey Institute's data on child orgasms were concocted or were they results of child molestation?

Which seems to imply that you plan to argue that the data was either made up (a bad thing) or came from child molestation (also a bad thing).

Well according to the link Conjur posted it he did arrive at some of his information based on the study of children who had been sexually molested. However that in no ways implies that his study or methods involved molesting children.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: imperium95

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Take a deep breath, please.

Oh, whew. Thanks for being the voice of reason there, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Certainly not. It's good to question the methods for gathering data. Also, Red Dawn accused you of making "knee Jerk allegations", which I would argue is different than "waging a campaign of lies and hate" as you suggested. And he probobly got the idea that you aren't to interested in actually knowing how Kinsey got his data because earlier you posted:

Do you think that The Kinsey Institute's data on child orgasms were concocted or were they results of child molestation?

Which seems to imply that you plan to argue that the data was either made up (a bad thing) or came from child molestation (also a bad thing).

Well according to the link Conjur posted it he did arrive at some of his information based on the study of children who had been sexually molested. However that in no ways implies that his study or methods involved molesting children.

I would not be interested in purported data from child molesters nor would I publish such data. And anybody who provided me with such data would be identified to the authorities.

I find this whole thing extremely disturbing. I guess I must be a Puritan.

 

[0roo0roo]

wonder which source rips getting his kinsey hatred from this time

the man was flawed yes. but what he got right was groundbreaking. no ones perfect. einstein was wrong on a lot after his string of famous breakthroughs.

 

[GTaudiophile]

I think people know Kinsey was a pedo at heart.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: imperium95

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Take a deep breath, please.

Oh, whew. Thanks for being the voice of reason there, Rip.

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Certainly not. It's good to question the methods for gathering data. Also, Red Dawn accused you of making "knee Jerk allegations", which I would argue is different than "waging a campaign of lies and hate" as you suggested. And he probobly got the idea that you aren't to interested in actually knowing how Kinsey got his data because earlier you posted:

Do you think that The Kinsey Institute's data on child orgasms were concocted or were they results of child molestation?

Which seems to imply that you plan to argue that the data was either made up (a bad thing) or came from child molestation (also a bad thing).

Well according to the link Conjur posted it he did arrive at some of his information based on the study of children who had been sexually molested. However that in no ways implies that his study or methods involved molesting children.

I would not be interested in purported data from child molesters nor would I publish such data. And anybody who provided me with such data would be identified to the authorities.

I find this whole thing extremely disturbing. I guess I must be a Puritan.

Well, i see no problem with it. As long as he didn't encourage them or pay them to have sex with young boys. He's a scientist, and every bit of information is valuable. I don't condone it, but i understand it.

The same way scientists used dead childrens bodies in car accident simulations. Controversial, but very effecient.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Take a deep breath, please.

Uh, I see most people saying they really don't know, and that they don't want to jump to any conclusions because they don't know. You, on the other hand, are assuming the worst with not one shred of evidence, then badgering others to disprove your arguments.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm asking an honest question.

How did Kinsey generate these data?

I'm waiting for somone to enlighten me.

Isn't anyone here interested in the science behind Kinsey's research?

I don't think anybody here knows, that's why I suggested you look it up yourself before you start making knee jerk allegations.

http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/about/cont-akchild.html#Allegation

Wait a second, you're not Rip. Surely Rip would have found this data, as it represents an explanation, even if it didn't support his theory. Very strange that someone else had to bring it up.

 

[Forsythe]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: Riprorin
So asking how Kinsey generated data regarding the number of orgasims pre-adolescents had is waging a campaign of lies and hate?

Take a deep breath, please.

Uh, I see most people saying they really don't know, and that they don't want to jump to any conclusions because they don't know. You, on the other hand, are assuming the worst with not one shred of evidence, then badgering others to disprove your arguments.

Exactly, thats what i was looking for. Jumping to conclusion, thank you.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
I'm asking an honest question.

How did Kinsey generate these data?

I'm waiting for somone to enlighten me.

Isn't anyone here interested in the science behind Kinsey's research?

I don't think anybody here knows, that's why I suggested you look it up yourself before you start making knee jerk allegations.

http://www.indiana.edu/~kinsey/about/cont-akchild.html#Allegation

Wait a second, you're not Rip. Surely Rip would have found this data, as it represents an explanation, even if it didn't support his theory. Very strange that someone else had to bring it up.

Orgasm Data
Kinsey, with his primary interest in variability, was also intrigued by the various ways in which orgasm was experienced. In the Male volume, 51 he combines evidence provided from the above source on 196 pre-adolescent boys with descriptions obtained from adults or their partners to produce a list of six different types of orgasm.

Two of these types involve signs which in other circumstances would be regarded as distress, such as sobbing or crying or hypersensitivity around orgasm which results in "violent attempts to avoid climax, although they derive pleasure from the situation...[and] quickly return to complete the experience, or have a second experience." 52

As these descriptions were applied to pre-adolescent boys as well as adults, they have been taken by some to indicate that these children were being tortured. It would never have occurred to Kinsey that responses associated with orgasm, whether in a child or an adult would be interpreted in that way, as he clearly saw the orgasm as the culmination of pleasurable stimulation.

196 boys and then mixed in with descriptions from adults. Still doesn't say how he obtained the info about the kids. "evidence provided from the above source on 196 pre-adolescent boys" does not say how the so-called "evidence" was gotten. I think kinsey has a few problems with his research - one of which is documentation of procedures(or rather non-disclosure).

doubt I'll waste my time or money on a movie about this guy. Maybe if I'm ultra bored someday...

CsG

 

[SuperTool]

I've seen the movie. It's kind of like "The Beautiful Mind" only fruitier.

 

[Bowfinger]

Just watched it, excellent film! Highly recommended both as a film and as a (dramatized) view of a turning point in American culture. It also reinforced my suspicions about why the zealots hate him so. Some of the ridiculous sexual disinformation they promulgated then is sadly similar in concept to the disinformation they spread today.

The extended edition has a fascinating documentary related to making the movie. It briefly addresses Reisman's (sp?) smear campaign against Kinsey and the effort by Reisman and others to kill the movie long before they started shooting.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Do you think that The Kinsey Institute's data on child orgasms were concocted or were they results of child molestation?

do you write for hannity?

well, there have been many responses...here is another from the institute itself (hit #1 when searching for the info, by the by)

Where did the childhood sexual data come from?
Reports of childhood sexual behavior were mostly from interviews of adults recalling their early experiences. Parents and teachers were also asked if they had noticed sexual reactions in their children, and some children were interviewed in the presence of a parent or teacher. Among more than 5,000 men interviewed for Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, there were 9 who reported having had sexual relations with children. One in particular, with an extensive sexual history, is the source of the childhood response tables in the Male book. Dr. Kinsey and his staff never conducted experiments with children.

im not saying agree with how he did things or the results. but your question is seriously lacking as far as presentation....providing only two options, both of which paint the study and the man in a negative light.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
Can you please explain to me how Kinsey obtained these data?

Here is the statement from the Kinsey Institute web-site:

Where did the childhood sexual data come from?

Reports of childhood sexual behavior were mostly from interviews of adults recalling their early experiences. Parents and teachers were also asked if they had noticed sexual reactions in their children, and some children were interviewed in the presence of a parent or teacher. Among more than 5,000 men interviewed for Sexual Behavior in the Human Male, there were 9 who reported having had sexual relations with children. One in particular, with an extensive sexual history, is the source of the childhood response tables in the Male book. Dr. Kinsey and his staff never conducted experiments with children.



edit: oops, I see Patboy X has already given this. There seems to be so many allegations about Kinsey's methods floating around, it's hard to work out what's true and what is anti-sex propaganda.


It does seem (from the above answer from the Kinsey Institute) that the data on the capacity for preadolescent males to experience orgasm was obtained via interviewing an adult, male pedophile. That is pretty dubious, from today's standards. OTOH there was no research or understanding back then (this is the 1940s) on the psychological harmfulness of child sexual abuse. Maybe some of his research practice might today be considered shoddy, or unethical, but he was "working in the dark", so to speak (in terms of the knowledge available to him on human sexuality). The fact he made some mistakes doesn't really detract much from the overall significance of his contributions, imo.

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: aidanjm
edit: oops, I see Patboy X has already given this. There seems to be so many allegations about Kinsey's methods floating around, it's hard to work out what's true and what is anti-sex propaganda.

the idea of anti-sex propaganda amuses me.
like this
also: im pretty sure that "language is a virus" is a burroughs bit.

 

[Gigantopithecus]

As per usual, aidan hit the nail on the head, but just edited it out! His point was basically that given today's heightened scrutiny of human research subjects (ala IRB), many of Kinsey's experiments would be considered unethical.
However, they weren't back when he conducted them. Is their contemporary utilization unethical as well? Most would say no. The data is there, we ought use it.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
As per usual, aidan hit the nail on the head, but just edited it out! His point was basically that given today's heightened scrutiny of human research subjects (ala IRB), many of Kinsey's experiments would be considered unethical.
However, they weren't back when he conducted them. Is their contemporary utilization unethical as well? Most would say no. The data is there, we ought use it.

oops, sorry for editing that, I edited back something similar.

 

[aidanjm]

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: aidanjm
edit: oops, I see Patboy X has already given this. There seems to be so many allegations about Kinsey's methods floating around, it's hard to work out what's true and what is anti-sex propaganda.

the idea of anti-sex propaganda amuses me.
like this
also: im pretty sure that "language is a virus" is a burroughs bit.

that is really funny, it has an eerily accurate feel to it