Kitchen Design ... doing a remodel (now with pics!)

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: MooseKnuckle
Get rid of the closet in the lower right, have a table come off that wall towards the kitchen and add bankette seating on the odd-shaped wall of the bathroom. Nice breakfast nook with plenty of light and view of the outdoors while drinking a cup of "joe" and reading the morning paper. You can now eliminate the table and chairs and have clear access to all workareas.

Moose, I jsut read this post and the previous post. It's nearly bed time so I'll do these ideas up tommorrow and see what they look like.

They do sound like good ideas!!!!

 

[Sukhoi]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
EXACT MEASUREMENTS!!

This is a blank schematic with exact measurements. Door/window opening sizes take trim into account. I removed the current closets that were in the top right corner. The reason is simple.....

... I need to think of this as a blank slate as we have to do this kitchen correctly. That is the bottom line and if it costs an extra $1000-$2000 to do it, so be it.

I have a crazy idea I just drew up in my head. I'll post it in a second for kicks .... but first I have to look over other posts from the past day.

Laundry up by the deck is probably the best idea. Put folding closet doors infront of it so you can hide it.

The bathroom appears to be at the back of the great room. Why not just move the door to the kitchen wall and rotate the stuff inside 90º? Having the bathroom open off the front door is kinda weird, and is really out of the way to get to when walking through the house. Or possibly do the angled thing you were thinking but have the door be by the kitchen table.

With your living room being square, recessing a wall into it for the frige may look rather weird. Also remember those walls in that area are likely structural. I would put the fridge just above the opening into the dining room and recess it into some cabinets.

Move the door in the kitchen so it's right next to the washer and dryer closet. Put a pantry in on the bottom wall of the kitchen to the left of the foyer entrance if that's deep enough. If not move it to the right side of the foyer door to the kitchen.

Have the sink below that little window with the dishwaser to the right. Lazy susan to the left of the sink in the corner. Have the counter be an L that comes down to the left of the door and use it as the breakfast area. Either put the stove somewhere in there, or in an island if there is room.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

This took me forever.

First, the worse of two ideas:
Not so hot

And the better idea (inspired by Moose's comments):
Wow, not bad at all!!!!

The better idea is lacking a breakfast bar .... it might fit though. A big THANK YOU to Moose for getting me to think outside of the box. 45 degree angles didn't really work out but putting things on slight angles really made the work area open while giving me a nice amount of storage. The half bathroom also got a boost in size.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

NOTES:

1) Wife does not want the firdge recessed into the living room. She doesn't want to ruin that room (whcih is probably 20'x12'). I agree with her.

2) She wants the laundry on the first floor.

3) She wan't a breakfast table

4) If anything goes, it's the breakfast bar to start.

I want hte breakfast bar though. We use ours now more than you could imagine!

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

I started researching fridges. We should be able to get something much smaller than what is shown in the drawing.

 

[thescreensavers]

looking good

 

[MooseKnuckle]

It's nice to see exact dimensions. Let me start by saying if it was my house, I'd relocate the deck stairs and put windows and french doors from the door in the kitchen all the way around to the door in the great room. If you're not looking to spend that kind of money. Then, lose the bathroom idea, the bath door in the great room can be moved to the kitchen wall. That bathroom is fine why spend the money building a new one? Just update fixtures and tile etc... Focus on the great room and that entrance to the deck for entertaining. Put the laundry in the lower right where you have the new bathroom. That bathroom is a bad idea, if guests are on the deck they have to trample through your house to get to it because you have no entrance in the kitchen/great room area. The cabinet in the lower left doesn't fit and blocks the flow to the dining room. The corner pantry idea is a waste of space, make it a floor to ceiling cabinet opening left to right facing the doorway, then have a row of cabinets off of that with a breakfast bar. If you put in the breakfast bar, the center island should go back to being a rectangle that should house the dishwasher and one extra cabinet. The breakfast bar counter serves as a focal point for guests if you are cooking in the kitchen and entertaining at the same time (guests/family could be seated at the counter). The cabinetry you chose for the kitchen could be extended where you proposed to put the laundry and wrap it around into the great room. Put a bar sink and a mini under counter fridge in there. When entertaining, you can use the mini fridge and keep folks out of the kitchen fridge. Plus the extra counter acts as a buffet kinda sort of. You have valuable space(the deck) use it to your advantage. BTW, I really don't see the need for that little table and chairs, but then again I don't know your family or what your reason for having it it is. I would get rid of it.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

thescreenasavers,

Thanks for the confidence booster
--------------------------

Moose,
I guess I'll start with budget. We have enough money to move/add windows and doors. I'm somewhat expecting this to be a necessity. I don't want to spend money in redesigning the deck. Other than framing and drywall, my father in law and I will be doing most of the grunt work. Even my wife is getting in on the act with demolition We've done this before, so don't worry to much. Bottom line is that this kitchen has to be perfect. If it costs $5,000 extra to take it from very good to EXCELENT, the money will be spent. We can spend a total of $65K on this house and pretty much break even. Since we are doing all the work on our own, we'll be keeping those costs very low and spread over the next 3-4 years.

We'll be leaving the deck's staircase as is. It's all been redone by the previous owner and looks great. I don't want to start patching it up. Just another cost that can probably be avoided.

>> That bathroom is fine why spend the money building a new one?
I truely can't stand it where it is and I have to live there for 4+ years. It should also help out on resale. I'm sure I'm not het only one that found it odd. Not to mention that 8x12 area in the bottom right is almost unusable space. I've done a half bath before and the raw material cost was in the $800 neighborhood. Not that bad. This time we will need some framing/drywall done on top of that budget. Shouldn't be to costly though.

>> The cabinet in the lower left doesn't fit and blocks the flow to the dining room.
There is currently a pantry there. It seems to work well.

>> BTW, I really don't see the need for that little table and chairs, but then again I don't know your family or what your reason for having it it is.
Well, my wife does collection work from home. Not much, but she needs a table and the little one will be playing in the great room most often. Oh, we have an 18 month old boy. Anyways, we need it as a work space more than anything. We have a 3 seat breakfast bar right now and it truely just isn't big enough for her.

I don't know why I didn't post this yet.
a blank drawing:
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=167316913&size=o

It assumes the closets in the upper right of the kitchen get gutted.

I drew up an idea at work today that I want ot bang out, then I'll do your (Moose's) idea from scratch. The blank drawing is great, I have a bunch at work incase an idea pops in my head.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Gave Up On the Bathroom Move

After alot of time trying to figure this out, I gave up on moving the bathroom. And the nook table has been vetoed. The wife likes both these ideas. The result, a nice wide open floor plan that isn't cramped in the least! So, the small computer desk we have was moved in (4'x2.5') for my wife to work at. It's a nice one so having it will be nice to see it there. The little closet next to the computer will house the printer and some supplies for her. That closet might change in size over time, but it demonstrates the idea well.. I might also opt to put a door into the laundry room from the kitchen instead of having the computer closet there. We'll have to see.

Anyways, this will make for a very nice kitchen overall. It will be awesome. Breaking the laundry room off to it's own space is a bit wasteful, but it will be nice having such a nice room for things like vacuum cleaners, cleaning supplies, brooms, toilet paper, towels, etc. M<aybe we'll even put cabinets in there other than the little closet I know have in there as a concept.!

RANT: That window wher the kitchen sink is has to be moved. It is WAY to low. So i'll have to get a new one put in that is about 6"-12" higher. The bottom of the window currently rests at 35" above floor level! What morons. A new counter would be at about 36" in height. Not a big deal, but it jsut makes me shake my head. That window might be reused over by the breakfast bar though, so not is all lost All this after finding a multitude of electrical problems. Some idiot wired in 3 prong outlets with no ground. And has alot of hot/neutral reverses. The place was remodeled by an impatient amature. Welll, atleast it is a good shell with some things done right (aka: subcontracted).

PRICING: Went to Lowe's today to get an idea of exact pricing. I was expecting a cost ofabout $15K-$20K to do this kitchen remodel. Well, it will be more than $15K anyways. I'm planning for $20K-$22K. Going with granite is going to push me over $20K. Still have to debate that one I guess. Were doing nice cabinets, but we won't be doing the glass doors and other random upgrades along those lines. I saw a dark green grnaite today that looked AWESOME! Nto sure whath te price was though.

Thoughts?

 

[fatkorean]

What about making the laundry room a study/den/office? It has a nice big window to it. Then move the washer and dryer to where the kitchen desk is next to the pantry?

-fk

 

[MooseKnuckle]

Originally posted by: IHateMyJob2004
Gave Up On the Bathroom Move

After alot of time trying to figure this out, I gave up on moving the bathroom.

Thoughts?

That's the most sensible idea, utilize what you have... The idea of the wall separating the laundry is GREAT. Now the laundry is near the stairs, dirty clothes down and clean clothes right upstairs to the bedrooms eliminating foot traffic through the kitchen. I see no need for natural light in the laundry, remove the window and bump out the wall to maximize the desk space or the possibilty of a larger pantry. Spin the washer/dryer clockwise or go with stackables then enlarge the closest and you have a nice laundry/utility room.

No doubt it will be a very NICE kitchen, alot of room and space. I have a very different approach to designing a kitchen, I prefer a clean minimalist look with fewer cabinets and a HUGE pantry/closet. It's far cheaper to build a room w/shelves than installing a bunch of cabinets w/granite counters and more importantly to me; it means less counter clutter. The pantry shelves house foodstuffs on one side and small appliances and such on the other. I really love open space when it comes to floor plans because it's more verstatile and furniture options are not limited to confining walls and spaces.

I'm in the early stages of purchasing a 400 sq. ft. bungalow for a complete renovation; I'm sure I'll be sharing some design ideas with you guys... GOOD LUCK w/ the kitchen.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Moose,

Thanks for all the comments.

Now for the thing that sucks. I don't know if we are doing the kitchen remodel right away. We realized that we need a 5000 sqft carpet ($3K-$5K due to size), the bedrooms will use about $1500-$2000 to paint, add lighting fixtures to ceiling and for molding. And a dining room table which we never needed and L shaped couch for the great room .....

Anyways, our budget is about $20K. I could bump it to $30K, but looking over the things in the paragraph above, it looks like I'll need alot more than $30K to remodel the kitchen and add the things that will make the house livable.

Conclusion:
So, we are currently thinking that we will totally redo the upstairs. That's 2 full baths, and the bedrooms. 100% done. We'll also "tweek" the 1/2 bath downstairs a bit to make it nicer. $100 or so there. And then bascially add more furniture to make the house livable. The only thing lefts to do down the road is the 1/2 bath and the kitchen.

It sucks, but it looks like we're going to push the kitchen remodel out about 5 years when my wife returns to work. This is probably our best option for now.



I jsut want to extend a BIG thank you for giving me the advice all this time. I wish this would be done now, but it jsut doesn't seem to be in the cards. After our discussions tommorrow, we'll be finalizing our decision on what to do. I really hope we get to do everything, but I'm not expecting much to change. I don't want to push our debt levels to high.

 

[DBL]

Originally posted by: CTweak
I recently installed a new kitchen in a small house, and while they do recommend 42" I went 36" between the island and counters/fridge/etc. I found the work area quite comfortable. If you can do 42" do it, but 36" works just fine.

I'm re-doing my kitchen also in addition to just about everything else. I've got 36" between the counter and the Island. 42" is ideal but not practical in many cases. It just depends on the size of your space to begin with.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Update from two posts ago. I think I may have grossly over-estimated teh cost of doing the kitchen by ... well I think i nearly doubled the cost in my estimate. The nubmers ... I expected teh kitchen to cost around $20K. My father in law thinks that's an over-estimate. He thinks that $10K might even be doable. So, if this can be done for $15K, it's going to be green lit. WE'll still do all the other things I mentioned in my '' post. We'll be selling some stock to pull this off, but it will be worth it.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

IHate,
Remember it's $ well spent... Kitchen ROI

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Moose,

Thanks for the link.... I suppose I fall in this category:

Major Kitchen Remodel, Mid-Range
A major kitchen remodel at a mid-range price will run an average of $43,862, according to the report. A year later, you can expect to recoup 91 percent of that. The project includes creating a new layout with a 3-by-5-foot island for a 200-square-foot kitchen. It features 30 linear feet of semi-custom wood cabinets with laminate countertops, a double-bowl stainless-steel sink with single-lever faucet, plus an energy-efficient wall oven, cooktop, ventilation system, built-in microwave, dishwasher, garbage disposal, and custom lighting. Finish up with new resilient flooring and a paint job for the walls, trim, and ceiling.

I think that's the "professionally" installed price. My estiamte is about half that while my father in laws (who has done more of these than I) says it's doable in the $10K ball park. This week, I'll be taking my plans to the local lumber yard (who does alot more than lumber) and getting an estiamte done. I think I am way over-estiamting the cabinetry costs. And we can always do a "cheaper" granite. I can see doing it for $15K, but that $10K number by my father in law might be pushing it.

I think it was you who said stick framing a pantry is the way to go due to price and probably funtionality also. I might leave the old pantry in place as is or stick frame a new one. Save some cash.

I think I'm selling some stock. It's going to cost what it costs. And I'm going to do it.

I think we'll push off the purchase of some furniture for several months though.

 

[QED]

Meh... for me personally I liked the bathroom being off of the foyer instead of off of the great room.

The downstairs bathroom in my current house is right at the junction of the kitchen, dining area, and family room. Yes, it's very convenient there... almost too convenient. It just doesn't have any feeling of privacy to have a bathroom open up to a common area.

I've been to a lot of other houses where the downstairs bathroom is off of a little used corridor (usually by the laundry room), or off of the main entrance to the home and I think both are far preferable to having them essentially inside one of your main living areas.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: MathMan
Meh... for me personally I liked the bathroom being off of the foyer instead of off of the great room.

The downstairs bathroom in my current house is right at the junction of the kitchen, dining area, and family room. Yes, it's very convenient there... almost too convenient. It just doesn't have any feeling of privacy to have a bathroom open up to a common area.

I've been to a lot of other houses where the downstairs bathroom is off of a little used corridor (usually by the laundry room), or off of the main entrance to the home and I think both are far preferable to having them essentially inside one of your main living areas.

I think it's the way to go to, but it add cost. And the layout simply wasn't working. I might put the laundry in a closet, in the bathroom. I really want to move the bathroom, but it seems like 90% of the people I ask think it's not odd whatsoever to have it in the great room. THAT's IT!!! It's being moved!!!!

As for the portion I bold faced. That's exactly what I think it comes down to. Hrmmm ...... back to the drawing board The last paragraph reitereates my thoguhts. Thankk goodness someone came and made some sense for me

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Gave Up On the Bathroom Move

I just added a toilet/sink to the laundry area. It's essentially the same as the above link, but with a sink in place of the closet and a toilet in the top right corner.

Looking at it, there are alot of other arrangments that could be done. We'll have to see I suppose. Moving the dividing wall up into the kitchen more would give alot more room to toy with in the laundry/bathroom.

One option, of course, is to leave the washer/dryer out in the open, but seeing how that is hte main guest bathroom at this point, it would be better to put it in a closet.

 

[MooseKnuckle]

JUST AN IDEA...Assuming your bedrooms are on the second floor, it's most logical place to put the laundry. Not really expensive to do and it's a HUGE plus at the time you're ready to sell.

 

[Sukhoi]

Why not just move the bathroom door to the other wall?

 

[QED]

Originally posted by: MooseKnuckle
JUST AN IDEA...Assuming your bedrooms are on the second floor, it's most logical place to put the laundry. Not really expensive to do and it's a HUGE plus at the time you're ready to sell.

:thumbsup:

I agree... if you have the space, having the laundry room on the same floor as your bedrooms helps immensely.

My wife loves having our laundry room upstairs-- she has never had to carry a load of laundry up or down any set of stairs since we bought our house.

If workable, this solution might solve two problems for the OP at once-- where to put the laundry, as well as allow him to move his downstairs bathroom to a more secluded section of the house.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: MathMan

Originally posted by: MooseKnuckle
JUST AN IDEA...Assuming your bedrooms are on the second floor, it's most logical place to put the laundry. Not really expensive to do and it's a HUGE plus at the time you're ready to sell.

:thumbsup:

I agree... if you have the space, having the laundry room on the same floor as your bedrooms helps immensely.

My wife loves having our laundry room upstairs-- she has never had to carry a load of laundry up or down any set of stairs since we bought our house.

If workable, this solution might solve two problems for the OP at once-- where to put the laundry, as well as allow him to move his downstairs bathroom to a more secluded section of the house.

Thought about it, and not really an option. No where to really steal the space from. But I will have to give it some more thought and maybe stare a bit at the larger bedroom that isn't the master.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Originally posted by: Sukhoi
Why not just move the bathroom door to the other wall?

Load bearing wall and the bathroom's actual size and layout won't allow for it. There isn't any way to re-arrange that room. So, the door has to stay. Even then, the door would then be in the kitchen. Te whole privacy idea still wouln't work out.

 

[IHateMyJob2004]

Just want o voice my frustrations with buying/sellign a home.

WANRING: RANT

Why the hell did the septic inspector say "leech field nearing the end of it's useful life" when he simply could say it's time to have it replaced? That's the house we are selling. And the buyers are being jerks about it. All because the septic guy couldn't simply say it's time to redo it. So after all this headache, we are iving the buyer's a credit. And we want all this crap in writing.

I think realtors are no better than used car slaesman. I find some use pressure sales tactics. They are god damned idiots that don't know anything about maintaining a home even though it's their field of work. Ever try explaining what A GFI is to one of these morons?

And the house we are buying"
us) We want hte defective items on the inspection report resolved.
them) Just give us a number
us) $9,000
them) where did you get that from? Expalin your estimates.
us thinking) WTF? Why ask for a number in the first place?
us) Fine, $6,700-$9,000 ballpark estiamte. Ya, we went with the high estiamte.
them) fine, we'll fix all issues but the chimney thing
us thinking) Why the hell didn't you just say this right off?
us) concur, but you better understand the electrical issues, they have nothing to do with GFIs
them/agents) GFI bla bla bla
us) Read the report of what is wrong, have a liscenesed electrician resolve the issues
them/agents) GFIs?
us) HIRE A DAMNED ELECTRICIAN AND HAVE IT FIXED CORRECTLY!

Oh, almost all of the 3 prong outlets have hot/neutral reverses or missing grounds. WONDERFUL! Teh plugs with GFIs are by some miracle wired corerctly. But they kept saying some BS about GFIs. Well, I have a circuit tester and I'll be taking it to hte pre closing inspection.

I HATE THIS WHOLE PROCESS. It's a pain in the ass.

I can't wait for it to be over. I'm even loosing my remodeling interests. I need to get the buyers of our current home to sign off on the $5,000 credit and we are not fixing the leech field and low pH. About $5300 of work total. If they complain about $300, I'll be ready to kill them. Well, I hope they sign off on this, this week or I can't even think of starting a remodel job whcih must be started on Friday or Saturday.

The funny thing. They seemed like really nice people and my father in law was actually interested in having them over for dinner and to meet some of the locals. They are new in town and we were going to go above and beyond to weelcome them to the neighborhood and introduce them to people. I understand they want things fixed up ... fine .... but they are playing games at this point. That or our agent is simply an ass.

Oh, our agent says things like, "If they back away, you have to disclose the pH and leech field thing". I don't know if it's them saying it, the otherr's agent or our agent trying to scare us into resolving this sh!t just to get his *(&#*( commisision. And our agent is a friend of family for 20+ years now! WTF!!!!!!!! What is wrong with these people.

RANT END
Hope that made sense.