*Kitna named Superbowl MVP!* Official NFL 2013 Postseason thread

[Atomic Playboy]

Compared to last weeks playoff games this week was sort of bland. No upsets, 1 blowout and 1 sort of blowout earlier today. The Saints managed to make a game out of it in the second half yesterday and this game was a snooze fest before the 4th quarter.

This weekend's playoff games all sucked. The only excitement at all was the final quarter where it looked like San Diego might actually mount one of the most improbable comebacks in history. Everything else was a blowout with no drama, and some of the worst coaching decisions I have ever seen (Pagano punting on 4th and less than a yard down 21 points with 10 minutes left is probably the single worst coaching decision I have ever seen; when that happened, I turned to my friend and said "Pagano just threw in the towel, now the Patriots are going to hold the ball for the next 6 minutes"; it turned out to be 8, and the game). I mean, OK, it's still football, but it was some pretty long stretches of BOOOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGGG football. Hopefully the rivalry games between the Niners/Seahawks and Broncos/Patriots will be more exciting.

 

[MetalMat]

This weekend's playoff games all sucked. The only excitement at all was the final quarter where it looked like San Diego might actually mount one of the most improbable comebacks in history. Everything else was a blowout with no drama, and some of the worst coaching decisions I have ever seen (Pagano punting on 4th and less than a yard down 21 points with 10 minutes left is probably the single worst coaching decision I have ever seen; when that happened, I turned to my friend and said "Pagano just threw in the towel, now the Patriots are going to hold the ball for the next 6 minutes"; it turned out to be 8, and the game). I mean, OK, it's still football, but it was some pretty long stretches of BOOOOOOORRRRIIIINNNNGGGGG football. Hopefully the rivalry games between the Niners/Seahawks and Broncos/Patriots will be more exciting.

Broncos/Patriots should be good but I don't know about the other game. That game will either have the 49ers getting blown out or be an SEC defense fest with a final score of 3-9.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

Broncos/Patriots should be good but I don't know about the other game. That game will either have the 49ers getting blown out or be an SEC defense fest with a final score of 3-9.

Yeah, but the potential for a giant brawl is always there when Seattle and San Francisco play. There's entertainment value in that.

 

[MetalMat]

Yeah, but the potential for a giant brawl is always there when Seattle and San Francisco play. There's entertainment value in that.

True. That issue came up on Sky Sports today and they were discussing how the NFL should bring in extra big refs for better control of that game.

 

[MetalMat]

Did anyone see this? Not sure if this was brought up earlier but what a pathetic flop by Cam Newton:

 

[joejoe666]

^^ yea, this is football, what kind of whimsy acting is that! please stop turning NFL into european football.

 

[gorcorps]

Did anyone see this? Not sure if this was brought up earlier but what a pathetic flop by Cam Newton:

Yeah, it came up but I don't think they had a pic

Not sure why anybody would do that when there's so many slowmo cameras around that'll show how stupid you look.

 

[SSSnail]

Why does the outcome of the play matter at that point? They had just gotten a first down. If you don't use that timeout, then the clock runs out. Use your brain.

Otherwise, the clock stops at 2 min, then Denver runs their play, you call a timeout probably around 1:53-1:55. Taking the timeout saved SD some seconds. Granted it's more effective to take a timeout around 2:05+ because plays take at least 5 seconds to run.

Wait what? How the hell does the clock runs out at that point? They had just gotten the first down, and the immediate thing after is the 2-minute warning stop.

You already have a stop at 2 minute warning, after that, you have absolutely no controls whatsoever because you just burned your last timeout at 2:02.

In my scenario, you have the control to either burn a timeout to stop the next run play, OR, save it IF your defense miraculously come up with a turnover.

If you have just one timeout left and you burn it right before the 2-minute warning, then you're just playing to lose at that point.

After the 2 minute warning if one of their players gets hurt, regardless of the play, say an incompletion, they have to burn a timeout. So you really don't have more control of the situation. They'd suffered multiple injuries already and a concussed player just a minute earlier. There's a risk in holding those timeouts until after the 2 minute warning.

You're talking about Offensive or Defensive injury? Because that does make a difference. And yes, I do have the CHOICE of what I want to do with my lone timeout. In the event that my opponent got a first down though, then it won't matter in the grand scheme of thing.

It's always preferable to take your timeouts on the front side of the two minute warning. You have to operate under the assumption that your defense can force a stop, because if they can't, timeouts don't do anything for you regardless, as your opponent just keeps gaining first downs until the game ends. If you assume every play will run 5 seconds off the clock, here's the breakdown:

Play 1: 2:07, takes 5 seconds, timeout called at 2:02
Play 2: 2;02, takes 5 seconds, two minute warning at 1:57
Play 3: 1:57, takes 5 seconds, ends at 1:52; no timeouts, so the clock runs down to 1:12
Play 4: Punt at 1:12 (assuming the defense has forced the stop)

If you take your timeout on the other side of the two minute warning, your breakdown looks like this:

Play 1: 2:07, takes 5 seconds, clock runs to 2 minute warning
Play 2: 2:00, takes 5 seconds, timeout called at 1:55
Play 3: 1:55, takes 5 seconds, ends at 1:50; no timeouts, so the clock runs down to 1:10
Play 4: Punt at 1:10

In this case it only saves 2 seconds (the two seconds prior to the 2 minute warning), but in literally every timeout scenario, the defense will have more time left on the clock if they take all their timeouts before the two minute warning and force the punt; there is no scenario where you will have more time if you save your timeouts unless you fail to stop a first down (but if that happens, generally you've lost anyway). So it was the right call, the defense just failed to convert. Usually this argument comes up when there's 30 seconds or so prior to the 2 minute warning and coaches hang on to their timeouts out of the stupid belief that they mean more after the 2 minute warning; 2 seconds isn't that big of a deal, but you're still on the wrong side of the math with your argument.

Read above. Your assumption is that SD had all their timeouts, so no, they only have one timeout left.

My argument is that if SD didn't call the timeout right before the 2-minute warning, they have the choice of when they can burn their last timeout. Should the opportunity presented itself on the next play, they could use that to stop the clock when they need it. Otherwise, even if they got the turnover and they needed to stop the clock, they wouldn't be able to. If their opponent got the first down, then it wouldn't have matter at that point.

We're talking about this game specifically, when SD had only ONE timeout left before the 2-minute warning. We're not talking about any other games where coaches can't manage the clock to save their jobs and saved the timeouts for their retirements.

 

[SP33Demon]

^^ yea, this is football, what kind of whimsy acting is that! please stop turning NFL into european football.

To Cam's credit, he was (very lightly) kicked in the head so he was trying to draw a possible personal foul. Much like Lebron does the same shit, which is pretty funny when it doesn't work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=1ZpGKC62qvs#t=22

Or Derek Jeter doing the same thing in baseball (but sold it great):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U9jttDSUCg

Cam needs to practice in front of a mirror.

Edit: Check out #38 by Jerome Simpson:
http://www.complex.com/sports/2013/08/flops-dives-sports-history-gifs-worst/jerome-simpson

Wtf!

 

[manly]

Cam needs to practice in front of a mirror.

Like he doesn't already?

I actually think SSSnail has a fair point. If you can only save a couple seconds, then save your timeout just in case something favorable happens under 2 minutes. We've seen times when teams get cute and throw an incomplete pass that stops the clock. If you force a miracle turnover on the next play, the game clock also stops for free.

 

[Ban Bot]

Gonna be a good game. I'm kind of glad Seahawks took care of NO because I want to see SF go into Seattle and win. Gonna have to play perfect to do it, though.

I am glad SF took care of business as well. The plot is much better. The coaches are very different, are both very good, but people love to hate both. Wilson and Kap are young mobile quarterbacks but they play the game differently and more importantly are totally different personalities. The teams are built similarly with strong defenses and strong run games. Both have had major injuries to the receiving core (Crabree, Manningham, Rice, Harvin). It is a game between two pre-season favorites staying true to course with the two best records in the NFC, splitting their games 1-1, and truly NOT liking each other. And we get a mid-afternoon in the CLink where Seattle has been impressive with a recent beloved patriot in the armor, leaving some reasonable questions: can SF walk in and take away the home field? SF has played the Hawks 4 times, and in Seattle twice, in the last two years. They are by far the most prepared team to go into the CLink and just play ball.

What I don't look forward to this week is all the trash talk, especially the idiot type (40-whiners, Seadderal, Carroll is a cheater, Seattle pipes in noise), or the big man, "You are so one and done" type talk for months that is (a) never called on when they are wrong and (b) doesn't stop them from doing the same to every game. Hello hero, just because you get a couple games right, maybe the fact you get just as many wrong should be an indication that the smack talk is out of place? There is a reason they play the games! We have seen great teams like the Patriots and Colts lose after amazing seasons. There is no crime in that. Football is a game of wins and losses--seasons, games, halves, quarters, series, downs, plays, matchups. Even the best teams lose on matchups and plays and even games; the better teams win more downs when needed, that is what makes them good. But the better teams are not always the best team on that field, that day. Jimmy Graham excluded (zing!), most NFL players are respected by their peers, even those on bad teams. There is a reason the NFL is so exciting! Who cares what you did last week--lace them up and let the better team today win.

This has been an exciting season. Robo-Manning and his Colts have been amazing on Offense but I don't think Manning's Colts will ever get a good defense (what, he plays the Broncos? I could swear his team has no defense... you sure that isn't the Colts? Horse, Colt, Bronco, Mare, Mule, Donkey, whatever. A horse is a horse, you would know that if you watched their defense!) We are on the verge of a Manning vs. Brady AFC championship (kudos to BB and Brady as they have truly had the heart of a champion with all those injuries). Certainly the NFC title game this year is between clearly the #1 and #2 teams. Heck, the last 4 standing were IMO clearly the #1-to-#4 squads.

No disrespect to CAR, they had a great, breakout season. Great defense with a young nucleus. But I don't think Cam would have fared well in his first game in the CLink. While I agree CAR got better through the season I think their poor start is overplayed. Seattle came into their house, their home opener, with quite a few injuries and beat CAR. It was a close game but Seattle had over 300 yards passing and ran out 4 minutes of the clock to end the game. ARI showed you can lose to the Hawks and walk into their house and pull out a W, but I don't think a CAR-SEA match up would have been as interesting.

Brady-Manning!! San Fran-Seattle!! Exciting week of football ahead!

 

[IAteYourMother]

My argument is that if SD didn't call the timeout right before the 2-minute warning, they have the choice of when they can burn their last timeout. Should the opportunity presented itself on the next play, they could use that to stop the clock when they need it. Otherwise, even if they got the turnover and they needed to stop the clock, they wouldn't be able to. If their opponent got the first down, then it wouldn't have matter at that point.

We're talking about this game specifically, when SD had only ONE timeout left before the 2-minute warning. We're not talking about any other games where coaches can't manage the clock to save their jobs and saved the timeouts for their retirements.

So it's the 2 minute warning and Denver has a 1st and 10. What is the ideal time to take a timeout?

 

[SSSnail]

So it's the 2 minute warning and Denver has a 1st and 10. What is the ideal time to take a timeout?

The second run play or completion inbound.

Seriously, are you asking question just to ask question? Are you really oblivious to the fact that having the choice of taking a timeout when condition is favorable is always better than having none?

 

[IAteYourMother]

The second run play or completion inbound.

Seriously, are you asking question just to ask question? Are you really oblivious to the fact that having the choice of taking a timeout when condition is favorable is always better than having none?

Your argument makes no sense. There wasn't going to be a more favorable time to call timeout then before the 2 minute warning in order to maximize time left.

 

[SSSnail]

Your argument makes no sense. There wasn't going to be a more favorable time to call timeout then before the 2 minute warning in order to maximize time left.

Actually, now I'm interested in what you actually mean when you say "maximize time left". Go on. Remember, it's American Football we're talking about, OK?

 

[IAteYourMother]

Actually, now I'm interested in what you actually mean when you say "maximize time left". Go on. Remember, it's American Football we're talking about, OK?

Read the thread.

 

[SSSnail]

Read the thread.

So, you don't know? Got it.

 

[IAteYourMother]

So, you don't know? Got it.

Then read your own post 1808 and Atomic Playboy's post. He gave you a play by play breakdown. You must be some special kind of dense. It's the biggest idiot in the room that thinks he's the smartest.

 

[Childs]

(timeouts and 2 minute warning)

Its better to use the timeout before the 2 minute warning, because the goal is to preserve as much time on the clock as possible. Atomic Playboy broke it down, but saving 2 sec and getting Denver to the next down is better than losing 2 sec. That could be the difference in getting to run an extra play. You are going to have to use the timeout anyway, so why let time run off the clock that you cant get back?

Also, the clock stops on a turnover/change of possession, so saving the timeout isnt going to buy you anything. SD needs Denver to get to 4th down with as much time on the clock as possible.

You can also look at it another way. People have been playing pro football for over a 100 years, and people spend their lives studying the game. If they do it this way, they have their reasons.

Anyways, the conference championships is probably what most thought it would have been at the beginning of the season. Should be two epic games next week, and we are pretty much guaranteed a great Superbowl.

 

[SSSnail]

Its better to use the timeout before the 2 minute warning, because the goal is to preserve as much time on the clock as possible. Atomic Playboy broke it down, but saving 2 sec and getting Denver to the next down is better than losing 2 sec. That could be the difference in getting to run an extra play. You are going to have to use the timeout anyway, so why let time run off the clock that you cant get back?

Also, the clock stops on a turnover/change of possession, so saving the timeout isnt going to buy you anything. SD needs Denver to get to 4th down with as much time on the clock as possible.

You can also look at it another way. People have been playing pro football for over a 100 years, and people spend their lives studying the game. If they do it this way, they have their reasons.

Anyways, the conference championships is probably what most thought it would have been at the beginning of the season. Should be two epic games next week, and we are pretty much guaranteed a great Superbowl.

IIRC, it was Denver's second down when they ran that play and got first down anyways, so anything after that is pointless. If they didn't, then it'd be third down after the 2-minute warning, still plenty of opportunity for me to use that timeout. Like I said, if you're not planning on using that timeout, then you're playing to lose at that point because nothing will stop a clock after that, except for injuries and penalties hmm:...)

Answering the bolded - that's not the clock stoppage I was referring to, I was referring to the clock stoppage that I would eventually need AFTER I somehow got the turnover and ran some plays - for when my receivers are stopped inbound - for instance. Anyways. I'm done with this topic.

 

[Slew Foot]

So yeah, 5 months later the 4 four teams pretty much everyone thought would be the best in the league are in the conference finals.

 

[mugs]

It's always preferable to take your timeouts on the front side of the two minute warning. You have to operate under the assumption that your defense can force a stop, because if they can't, timeouts don't do anything for you regardless, as your opponent just keeps gaining first downs until the game ends. If you assume every play will run 5 seconds off the clock, here's the breakdown:

Play 1: 2:07, takes 5 seconds, timeout called at 2:02
Play 2: 2;02, takes 5 seconds, two minute warning at 1:57
Play 3: 1:57, takes 5 seconds, ends at 1:52; no timeouts, so the clock runs down to 1:12
Play 4: Punt at 1:12 (assuming the defense has forced the stop)

If you take your timeout on the other side of the two minute warning, your breakdown looks like this:

Play 1: 2:07, takes 5 seconds, clock runs to 2 minute warning
Play 2: 2:00, takes 5 seconds, timeout called at 1:55
Play 3: 1:55, takes 5 seconds, ends at 1:50; no timeouts, so the clock runs down to 1:10
Play 4: Punt at 1:10

In this case it only saves 2 seconds (the two seconds prior to the 2 minute warning), but in literally every timeout scenario, the defense will have more time left on the clock if they take all their timeouts before the two minute warning and force the punt; there is no scenario where you will have more time if you save your timeouts unless you fail to stop a first down (but if that happens, generally you've lost anyway). So it was the right call, the defense just failed to convert. Usually this argument comes up when there's 30 seconds or so prior to the 2 minute warning and coaches hang on to their timeouts out of the stupid belief that they mean more after the 2 minute warning; 2 seconds isn't that big of a deal, but you're still on the wrong side of the math with your argument.

If you call a time out at 2:02 you've gifted the other team a chance to *pass* instead of running, because an incomplete pass will have no bearing on the clock. It's stopping after the play regardless. Saving 2 seconds isn't worth giving the other team a better chance of getting a first down.

 

[IAteYourMother]

If you call a time out at 2:02 you've gifted the other team a chance to *pass* instead of running, because an incomplete pass will have no bearing on the clock. It's stopping after the play regardless. Saving 2 seconds isn't worth giving the other team a better chance of getting a first down.

I would welcome a pass/sack/TO opportunity if I am SD.

 

[zinfamous]

Broncos/Patriots should be good but I don't know about the other game. That game will either have the 49ers getting blown out or be an SEC defense fest with a final score of 3-9.

that doesn't happen because defense sucks balls in college compared to NFL.


also. I have come to the conclusion that college ball is almost pointless to watch these days.


well, it won't be 3-9. I'm hoping for some scoring in the twenties for both teams. maybe even 28-23 Seattle. something like that.

I don't see Seattle blowing them out again. Depends on Crabtree's shoulder, because that is a huge option for Kaeperdingle, but it should be a great game. 2 great games, either way.

 

[zinfamous]

True. That issue came up on Sky Sports today and they were discussing how the NFL should bring in extra big refs for better control of that game.

they love their Rugby.

it will be a gnarly game, that's for sure