Knicks vs. Heat...

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slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
missing haslem is hurting the heat a lot. when their supporting cast is so weak, having him out is making a big difference. everyone else on that team has been garbage, including mike miller who was supposed to be a great fit. I'll say it again, their style of play sucks and won't win. its a free for all with lebron and wade. bosh can't play like that either. spoelstra has to go. riley can probably make it work
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
missing haslem is hurting the heat a lot. when their supporting cast is so weak, having him out is making a big difference. everyone else on that team has been garbage, including mike miller who was supposed to be a great fit. I'll say it again, their style of play sucks and won't win. its a free for all with lebron and wade. bosh can't play like that either. spoelstra has to go. riley can probably make it work

A five game losing streak will always look bad. For context most of their losses this season have been excruciatingly close. There does seem to be some bad mojo with this squad. How many times have they jumped out to a big lead, looking like gangbusters, only to lose at the end? Body language in the last five games hasn't been good.

Miller has been awful, you are quite correct. They have three guys on the roster who's job it is to hit open threes, and they just aren't getting it done.

The other thing that has been a problem for them during the five game streak has been rebounding. Haslem, as you said, would make a huge difference. Wade and James leak out defensively for fast breaks, and that works very well, but the other three guys need to really really go in and crash the boards. Without another great rebounder on the team right now (Haslem out), Bosh really needs to get his boards up over ten a game. He has gotten that kind of glass work before, he can do it now. Miller, James and Wade are all extremely good rebounders for their positions. That does not make up for the length that some teams can roll out.

Maybe I missed it, but where has Z been? His two man game with Lebron kills teams and provides points for those times when the Heat O is struggling.

A few lucky bounces here or there, or a call or two, and the Heat have 5 or 6 more wins easily. They can explode for 20 straight (again), I wouldn't be too quick to write them off.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
The "Heatles" are looking terrible lately. Meanwhile the Lakers are just getting it figured out at the right time. I don't like the Lakers but I will have to laugh if Kobe walks away with another ring this year, leaving LeBron empty handed.

LeBron could have won in Cleveland if their GM had found a way to be gifted Gasol like the Lakers were.

Does this really surprise anyone?


A five game losing streak will always look bad. For context most of their losses this season have been excruciatingly close. There does seem to be some bad mojo with this squad. How many times have they jumped out to a big lead, looking like gangbusters, only to lose at the end? Body language in the last five games hasn't been good.

Miller has been awful, you are quite correct. They have three guys on the roster who's job it is to hit open threes, and they just aren't getting it done.

The other thing that has been a problem for them during the five game streak has been rebounding. Haslem, as you said, would make a huge difference. Wade and James leak out defensively for fast breaks, and that works very well, but the other three guys need to really really go in and crash the boards. Without another great rebounder on the team right now (Haslem out), Bosh really needs to get his boards up over ten a game. He has gotten that kind of glass work before, he can do it now. Miller, James and Wade are all extremely good rebounders for their positions. That does not make up for the length that some teams can roll out.

Maybe I missed it, but where has Z been? His two man game with Lebron kills teams and provides points for those times when the Heat O is struggling.

A few lucky bounces here or there, or a call or two, and the Heat have 5 or 6 more wins easily. They can explode for 20 straight (again), I wouldn't be too quick to write them off.

Still thinking 60 win season? Willing to put money on it?

Also, admittedly I only watched 3 of those losses but where was the call that could have gone their way? Or lucky bounces? I didn't see anything controversial or lucky, just games coming down to the wire and the Heat not being able to close them out.
 

slayer202

Lifer
Nov 27, 2005
13,679
119
106
A five game losing streak will always look bad. For context most of their losses this season have been excruciatingly close. There does seem to be some bad mojo with this squad. How many times have they jumped out to a big lead, looking like gangbusters, only to lose at the end? Body language in the last five games hasn't been good.

but all year they've struggled against good teams. they can beat bad teams with pure talent and swagger but that won't work in a 7 game series against most teams. as much as some people think basketball is a 1 man show, you really need teamwork to win. look at the list of nba championship winning teams and you can see that. sure, there are some really talented teams, or teams led by 1 person(MJ might be the only example), but they all had great chemistry, from the old school lakers and celtics to the spurs and 04 pistons. they played well together, unlike this heat team. obviously they have time to fix things, but won't happen this year
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
Cryami is done. They have no heart, drive or muscle. Just a bunch of talent that can't gel and get the job done in crunch time. They'll win one or two in the first round of playoffs and then pack it up for the season. At least they have South Beach to look forward to in late April.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
but all year they've struggled against good teams. they can beat bad teams with pure talent and swagger but that won't work in a 7 game series against most teams. as much as some people think basketball is a 1 man show, you really need teamwork to win. look at the list of nba championship winning teams and you can see that. sure, there are some really talented teams, or teams led by 1 person(MJ might be the only example), but they all had great chemistry, from the old school lakers and celtics to the spurs and 04 pistons. they played well together, unlike this heat team. obviously they have time to fix things, but won't happen this year

Losing by 2 or 3 points after carrying a large lead is struggling, but not in the sense that the media is playing it up right now. The Heat's defense was designed around teamwork, more than any defense I have seen in a while. They have a unique set of talent on the wings with Lebron and Wade, who are fast, play passing lanes and have good length. The Heat switch on every pick and roll and play help off of most post plays. They have the speed to recover, where most teams would just get burned. It has been quite amazing to watch actually.

The most similar defense I have seen over the years was the second Bulls threepeat team. They had Pippen and Jordan on the wings playing in a similar fashion. With Harper and Rodman included, they had four players on the court that could switch any pick and roll without being mismatched. All four players were at one time or another, first team all defense. Most people seem to forget or ignore that, which to me was the most important reason they won three straight (in a watered down league albeit).

The struggles the Heat are having during this streak (as was the case with the earlier streak too) is on the offensive end. Oddly, they are doing well offensively for a half now just to break down in the third quarter or the entirety of the second half. In their previous loss to the Celtics I found it very Mike Brown-ish that Coach Spo didn't have the Heat try and run them out of the gym. The Heat's offense works best running full speed. Against an older team like the Celtics they would cruise.

If you watch the Olympic games from 08, you can see when Bosh, Wade and James were on the floor together Coach K had used them to apply ball pressure in the half court and turn it into easy buckets. While that particular threesome's court time was limited, their plus/minus was usually better than the plus/minus for the team when the three weren't on the court together. The other thing you notice is the pick and roll with Bosh has Bosh flash to the basket for an easy look from Wade or Lebron. The Heat leave Bosh out on the perimeter of the pick and roll to shoot jumpers, which relies more heavily on a good shooting night (obviously) but puts less pressure on the defense.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwWLnaME0CI
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
The struggles the Heat are having during this streak (as was the case with the earlier streak too) is on the offensive end. Oddly, they are doing well offensively for a half now just to break down in the third quarter or the entirety of the second half. In their previous loss to the Celtics I found it very Mike Brown-ish that Coach Spo didn't have the Heat try and run them out of the gym. The Heat's offense works best running full speed. Against an older team like the Celtics they would cruise.

Look at the bench scoring of Miami vs other teams in their losses. Last night in Portland they were outscored like 41 to 8. In most games they are getting half as many bench points as their opponents. You have to rest your players at some point or sit down players because of foul issues. If your bench can't pick up the slack then that is the silent assassin in many games.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
Still thinking 60 win season? Willing to put money on it?

Also, admittedly I only watched 3 of those losses but where was the call that could have gone their way? Or lucky bounces? I didn't see anything controversial or lucky, just games coming down to the wire and the Heat not being able to close them out.

Rewatch the Knicks game, Lebron is not getting calls going to the basket that he would have gotten last year. Rewatch the Celtics game when Rondo fouls him on every possession, even Jeff Van Gundy was out of his mind about the officials allowing that kind of play without a single call. Just like Shaq, because of his sheer size, Lebron doesn't get calls other players might get. Wade plays a little Ginobli-esque so I don't care if he doesn't get a call, especially during that 9-8 start where he would drive, get contact but no foul, and then stop to complain while the other team was scoring 5 on 4.

13 of the Heat's losses this year have been close enough that a call one on end or the other would have swung it. I have the league pass and I watch two games a night usually, and I can tell you Lebron is not getting calls late that he gets throughout the game. Calls he got last year, calls they do give on the other end. Did you see the foul Wallace picked up on his way to an and one late in the contest?

All that being said, with all the lucky bounces and/or more consistent officiating (which we won't ever get in the NBA, just seems to be tilted against them) the Heat could be an 8 loss team right now. Even if they only get half of those lucky breaks, they would be a 14 loss team. Looking within, since they can't control the breaks, they would be faring alot better right now if they weren't sliding back off double digit leads. They were killing Orlando, NY and Chicago only to lose. They don't let up off the gas and they blow out those three instead of having a 5 game losing streak. They need to decide they are going to snap the necks of their opponents while they are pasting them, not play down to a lull that is hard to get back out of.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
Rewatch the Knicks game, Lebron is not getting calls going to the basket that he would have gotten last year. Rewatch the Celtics game when Rondo fouls him on every possession, even Jeff Van Gundy was out of his mind about the officials allowing that kind of play without a single call. Just like Shaq, because of his sheer size, Lebron doesn't get calls other players might get. Wade plays a little Ginobli-esque so I don't care if he doesn't get a call, especially during that 9-8 start where he would drive, get contact but no foul, and then stop to complain while the other team was scoring 5 on 4.

13 of the Heat's losses this year have been close enough that a call one on end or the other would have swung it. I have the league pass and I watch two games a night usually, and I can tell you Lebron is not getting calls late that he gets throughout the game. Calls he got last year, calls they do give on the other end. Did you see the foul Wallace picked up on his way to an and one late in the contest?

All that being said, with all the lucky bounces and/or more consistent officiating (which we won't ever get in the NBA, just seems to be tilted against them) the Heat could be an 8 loss team right now. Even if they only get half of those lucky breaks, they would be a 14 loss team. Looking within, since they can't control the breaks, they would be faring alot better right now if they weren't sliding back off double digit leads. They were killing Orlando, NY and Chicago only to lose. They don't let up off the gas and they blow out those three instead of having a 5 game losing streak. They need to decide they are going to snap the necks of their opponents while they are pasting them, not play down to a lull that is hard to get back out of.

Didn't see the ones you mentioned so there might be 2-3 games in there but you can't say just because they lose by 3 that a call would have changed the game.

Also, as a Mavs fan I find it hilarious you mention calls at all. Wade was handed a ring on a silver platter by the officials.
 

HendrixFan

Diamond Member
Oct 18, 2001
4,646
0
71
Didn't see the ones you mentioned so there might be 2-3 games in there but you can't say just because they lose by 3 that a call would have changed the game.

Also, as a Mavs fan I find it hilarious you mention calls at all. Wade was handed a ring on a silver platter by the officials.

The difference in a late possession down one versus up one is huge. With so many tight games and refs seemingly swallowing their whistles, given Lebron the Shaq treatment, it certainly would make a difference. Its not like the Heat are getting blown out or anything, their tight losses are as big of a factor in their scoring margin as their blowout wins.

I understand basketball works in that manner, and nobody has had an unlucky streak as much as the Suns in that respect. I am just illustrating that the sky is falling analysis on this thread and in the media is suspect. Steve Kerr said early in the season the Heat remind him of the 95 Bulls, that were just short of the perfect role player to put them over the top. They picked up Rodman and went 72-10. It was an astute assessment then, and it still seems to make sense. For all we know, Haslem could be that player.

I agree 100% on the Wade/Mavs deal, that was a bigger rip than the Kings had against the Lakers. But that disgrace further proves my point. If you don't think officials have a huge influence on the outcome of games then you are blind. Alot of the Heat's struggles in close games does seem to come from the officials being hesitant/scared to "gift" a win by calling what should be an obvious foul.
 

thepd7

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2005
9,423
0
0
The difference in a late possession down one versus up one is huge. With so many tight games and refs seemingly swallowing their whistles, given Lebron the Shaq treatment, it certainly would make a difference. Its not like the Heat are getting blown out or anything, their tight losses are as big of a factor in their scoring margin as their blowout wins.

I understand basketball works in that manner, and nobody has had an unlucky streak as much as the Suns in that respect. I am just illustrating that the sky is falling analysis on this thread and in the media is suspect. Steve Kerr said early in the season the Heat remind him of the 95 Bulls, that were just short of the perfect role player to put them over the top. They picked up Rodman and went 72-10. It was an astute assessment then, and it still seems to make sense. For all we know, Haslem could be that player.

I agree 100% on the Wade/Mavs deal, that was a bigger rip than the Kings had against the Lakers. But that disgrace further proves my point. If you don't think officials have a huge influence on the outcome of games then you are blind. Alot of the Heat's struggles in close games does seem to come from the officials being hesitant/scared to "gift" a win by calling what should be an obvious foul.

That's true to some extent, I have noticed the officials swallowing the whistle more while Lebron drives than I have seen in the past.

Although ultimately it comes down to the Heat missing jumpers when they have had some decent/good looks down the stretch.



Also, the current game, at least since I started watching with 6 minutes left in the 3rd, is a disgrace. The Heat and Lakers are both turning over the ball like they are playing hot potato.
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
Not sure about overall but Lakers didn't look that hot tonight obviously compared to the Heat. The way things look, the Heat would beat the Lakers in a 7 game series, but they probably won't get out of the East unless the Celtics and Bulls somehow lose before they face the Heat.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,754
63
91
Not sure about overall but Lakers didn't look that hot tonight obviously compared to the Heat. The way things look, the Heat would beat the Lakers in a 7 game series, but they probably won't get out of the East unless the Celtics and Bulls somehow lose before they face the Heat.

Neither of them are making it to the finals
 
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