Knicks vs. Heat...

[HendrixFan]

If that's the best 3 look a team with Bibby, Miller, House, Wade, and Lebron can get they aren't going to get past the second round.

Lebron had at least a 3 foot cushion on the three. That is pretty open when needing a three with seconds remaining. Do you watch basketball?

And how are they doing against that top seed in the east this year btw?

Care to guess how they are doing vs. other top teams (east and west)?

How is any "top team" doing against other top teams? How does that work historically? Do you understand that the best teams in the NBA lose around 30 games a year, all while playing mostly against non playoff teams, a handful of games against teams jockeying for first round exits, and even less games against "top teams". Yet 30 losses is considered good, and 20 is great.

Where do you think the Heat fall within that historical baseline (how many losses do they have this year)?

hint: the Heat would have to go 7-13 the rest of the way to finish with 30 losses, after going 43-17 this far

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

James Jones, Carlos Arroyo, Eddie House and Mike Miller are all 40% and above shooting threes this season, but they can't create their own shot. NY (predictably) covered the wing shooters because a two pointer would do little to help the Heat. Lebron is shooting 35% on threes for the season, he can shoot over a defender, and he had a cushion enough to call it an lightly contested shot.

I don't think they were going to get a better look unless they were only down two and NY would sag defenders into the paint on penetration leaving a spot up shooter open.

then give the ball to wade.


you mean to tell me spo can't come up with a play to free open shooters? pick and roll? drive and dish?
bron bron just plain sucks at the 3. he should at least try to drive and draw some contact and get a foul + 1, but preferably he would kick out because the D will collapse.
anything is a better option than him shooting the 3.

 

[TheSlamma]

Don't get used to Melo playing D, he will turn that back off.. he's prolly still recouping from his first time playing it in his life.

 

[Corporate Thug]

How much more time do these guys need to come together? They just lost to a Knicks team that had its roster blown up less than a week ago.

If you look at their record, they seem to be doing fine. And the Knicks lost to the Cavs...who cares? It's one game.

 

[HendrixFan]

then give the ball to wade.


you mean to tell me spo can't come up with a play to free open shooters? pick and roll? drive and dish?
bron bron just plain sucks at the 3. he should at least try to drive and draw some contact and get a foul + 1, but preferably he would kick out because the D will collapse.
anything is a better option than him shooting the 3.

Wade shoots threes under 30% for his career, and is just barely above 30% this season. His shot is midrange and has been since college.

Spo did come up with a play that got Lebron free at the top circle (his best spot). Pick and Roll doesn't work when you are down three with seconds remaining because both defenders play the ball. Drive and dish doesn't work in that situation (as explained earlier) because the defense has no reason to sag in and stop penetration. In fact, a pick and roll or drive and dish are what the defense would hope a team down three will try to do.

If anyone penetrates the defense wouldn't foul, you let them get to the basket and get the layup. Then NY gets the ball back to shoot FTs, up a point, Miami has no timeouts to advance the ball to midcourt, and around a second remaining on the clock. That plan relies on a made layup (80-90% chance of success with the defense not trying to foul), but then NY missing a FT and a post guy grabbing the board and flinging the ball 80 ft into the basket for the win in one second (less than 1% chance of success), or NY making the second FT, Miami inbounding under the basket against a full court press defense that pushes the inbound to the corner for a 90 ft fling into the basket with one second (less than 1% chance of success). Seems like a much less likely scenario than having a 35% three point shooter hit a three.

 

[jman19]

If you look at their record, they seem to be doing fine. And the Knicks lost to the Cavs...who cares? It's one game.

My point is that it is a frequently trotted out excuse... I'm just curious how much longer it is valid for.

 

[zebano]

then give the ball to wade.


you mean to tell me spo can't come up with a play to free open shooters? pick and roll? drive and dish?
bron bron just plain sucks at the 3. he should at least try to drive and draw some contact and get a foul + 1, but preferably he would kick out because the D will collapse.
anything is a better option than him shooting the 3.

I'm glad someone gave a cohesive answer, but I've got to quote this for self-ownage. If you pick and roll, down 3, they're going to give you the 2 points (no foul, they won't even contest the shot)... then laugh at you.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I'm glad someone gave a cohesive answer, but I've got to quote this for self-ownage. If you pick and roll, down 3, they're going to give you the 2 points (no foul, they won't even contest the shot)... then laugh at you.

if i set a high pick, i can roll to the top of the key outside the circle.
you don't have to roll to the basket.

 

[thepd7]

Lebron had at least a 3 foot cushion on the three. That is pretty open when needing a three with seconds remaining. Do you watch basketball?



How is any "top team" doing against other top teams? How does that work historically? Do you understand that the best teams in the NBA lose around 30 games a year, all while playing mostly against non playoff teams, a handful of games against teams jockeying for first round exits, and even less games against "top teams". Yet 30 losses is considered good, and 20 is great.

Where do you think the Heat fall within that historical baseline (how many losses do they have this year)?

hint: the Heat would have to go 7-13 the rest of the way to finish with 30 losses, after going 43-17 this far

I watched the Heat lose to the Celtics three times, Mavs twice, and the New York Knicks at home; how's that for watching basketball?

I know you're going to ignore this because you're a little butt hurt from getting beat at home by the Knicks but here you go, top4 seeds records vs. .500+ teams:

EAST
1) Boston 17-9
2) Miami 14-14
3) Chicago 16-9
4) Orlando 13-16

WEST
1) San Antonio 22-8
2) Dallas 22-9
3) Lakers 22-11
4) OKC 15-15


Let's take a closer look at the Heat's record vs. championship contenders, which in my opinion are the following teams: Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers.

The Heat are 1-7 vs. those teams.

Celtics record vs. the Heat, Bulls, Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers? 7-4
Mavs record vs. the Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Spurs, and Lakers? 6-4
Bulls record vs. the Celtics, Heat, Spurs, Mavs, and Lakers? 7-4
Spurs record vs. the Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Mavs, and Lakers? 5-3
Lakers record vs. the Celtics, Heat, Bulls, Mavs, and Spurs? 2-6

Let me put this in terms you'll understand: "one of these things is not like the other" (actually two but hopefully you can comprehend that).

The Heat, while a contender, are not playing at the same level as the Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, or Mavs.

 

[HendrixFan]

I know you're going to ignore this because you're a little butt hurt from getting beat at home by the Knicks but here you go, top4 seeds records vs. .500+ teams:

*snip*

The Heat, while a contender, are not playing at the same level as the Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, or Mavs.

I'm quite fine, I just had to work so the reply was late. I understand that there isn't anything wrong with the Heat being a 60-22 team this season, especially after starting out 9-8.

Of those 8 games (1-7), 6 have been on the road. Road wins against top teams are hard to come by, which is why home court advantage is a huge deal in the NBA. 4 of the next 5 games against the teams you mentioned for the Heat will be at home, and how they perform in those games will be helpful in telling us how they stand.

The Heat have less home games overall than any of the teams you mentioned.

The Heat lead the NBA in defensive FG%, defensive 3pt FG%, and are third in defensive efficiency, all while being the best defensive rebounding team. More than anything, those stats are what the Heat will rely on come playoff time. Given their injuries (Miller, Haslem) and the time it has taken a revamped roster to gel the Heat are doing pretty well to hold the second seed in the toughest conference.

 

[QueBert]

When the Lakers signed Payton & Malone they proved that having a crazy lineup doesn't instantly equal a ring. The Lakers that year didn't get multiple seasons to learn to play together though. I'm not so sure the Heat can do it this season, but if the team stays the same, shit the rest of the league will be in trouble next year. It's only a matter of time before they become a "team" and stomp the shit out of everyone. It's gonna be scary when Wade + James find their groove together. Season stats are great and all, but come the Playoffs they could easily turn that 1-7 thing around. I mean the Lakers are looking bad against the top teams too. But somehow they're pegged to win another ring? With them being a team that's played together for many seasons now, I'd say their 2-7 is absolute shit. The playoffs will show who's going to man up here, if either team doesn't step it up a lot it's gonna be the Celtics Vs Spurs in the finals.

If the Heat somehow manage to get past the Celtics in the playoffs they'll be the team I'm pulling for.

 

[zerocool84]

When the Lakers signed Payton & Malone they proved that having a crazy lineup doesn't instantly equal a ring. The Lakers that year didn't get multiple seasons to learn to play together though. I'm not so sure the Heat can do it this season, but if the team stays the same, shit the rest of the league will be in trouble next year. It's only a matter of time before they become a "team" and stomp the shit out of everyone. It's gonna be scary when Wade + James find their groove together. Season stats are great and all, but come the Playoffs they could easily turn that 1-7 thing around. I mean the Lakers are looking bad against the top teams too. But somehow they're pegged to win another ring? With them being a team that's played together for many seasons now, I'd say their 2-7 is absolute shit. The playoffs will show who's going to man up here, if either team doesn't step it up a lot it's gonna be the Celtics Vs Spurs in the finals.

If the Heat somehow manage to get past the Celtics in the playoffs they'll be the team I'm pulling for.

Everyone knows they're eventually going to be good but people were saying this was automatic Championship this year and it's just not going to happen.

 

[MikeMike]

Cavs make playoff run
Face heat first round
win in best of 7...

(oh dear god would that be epic)

 

[QueBert]

Everyone knows they're eventually going to be good but people were saying this was automatic Championship this year and it's just not going to happen.

They have the 2nd best record in their division and overall are playing better than the Lakers. I'd say they have a very good chance of winning a ring this year.

 

[thepd7]

I'm quite fine, I just had to work so the reply was late. I understand that there isn't anything wrong with the Heat being a 60-22 team this season, especially after starting out 9-8.

Of those 8 games (1-7), 6 have been on the road. Road wins against top teams are hard to come by, which is why home court advantage is a huge deal in the NBA. 4 of the next 5 games against the teams you mentioned for the Heat will be at home, and how they perform in those games will be helpful in telling us how they stand.

The Heat have less home games overall than any of the teams you mentioned.

The Heat lead the NBA in defensive FG%, defensive 3pt FG%, and are third in defensive efficiency, all while being the best defensive rebounding team. More than anything, those stats are what the Heat will rely on come playoff time. Given their injuries (Miller, Haslem) and the time it has taken a revamped roster to gel the Heat are doing pretty well to hold the second seed in the toughest conference.

I don't think the Heat will win 60 games, but it is possible. 12 Games vs. .500+ teams means they will have to play better than .500 ball against them to win 60 though.

You are right about the home vs. away, I didn't realize how many of those games were away. That being said, Championship teams win vs. top teams on the road and the road to the East is likely through Boston, not Miami. So they better step it up.

btw: beating Orlando at home is solid (watching the game now) but nothing extraordinary. I don't think Orlando is a contender this year.

They have the 2nd best record in their division and overall are playing better than the Lakers. I'd say they have a very good chance of winning a ring this year.

Do you think the Lakers are coming out of the West? Yes the Heat are playing better than the Lakers. They also have playoff experience/championships coming out their ass. If I was a Laker's fan (God forbid) I would be less worried than any Heat fans about the level of play.

 

[thepd7]

ha looks like I spoke too soon. WOW!

I watched the entire second half and I can't tell if that happened because Orlando is a great team (eh) or the Heat suck (eh). I think it's a combination of both: the Magic are a good team but not great, the Heat are exactly what I think: championship possible but not championship caliber.

 

[TastesLikeChicken]

Go Magic! Awesome comeback tonight. Richardson was a beast in the 2nd half.

 

[11thHour]

Everyone knows they're eventually going to be good but people were saying this was automatic Championship this year and it's just not going to happen.

I predict James will be traded after next season.

He's not a compliment to Wade, who is unquestionably Riley's franchise player, and he can't adjust his ballhogging perimeter-initiated game. Right now, James is worth a lot more used for acquiring components for the franchise, which the Heat would clean up trading the 'best player in the nba'. It will take another year of sub-contender play and a trade will be inevitable.

Bosh would be tradeable too except the Heat wouldn't get nearly as much in return.

 

[jman19]

I predict James will be traded after next season.

He's not a compliment to Wade, who is unquestionably Riley's franchise player, and he can't adjust his ballhogging perimeter-initiated game. Right now, James is worth a lot more used for acquiring components for the franchise, which the Heat would clean up trading the 'best player in the nba'. It will take another year of sub-contender play and a trade will be inevitable.

Bosh would be tradeable too except the Heat wouldn't get nearly as much in return.

0% change LeChoke gets traded. I do think they will win a championship together at some point though. Too much talent, and I think there is enough parity at the top. A lot of the other top teams are getting a bit long in the tooth (Spurs, Celts; Kobe is still good but getting older).

 

[11thHour]

0% change LeChoke gets traded. I do think they will win a championship together at some point though. Too much talent, and I think there is enough parity at the top. A lot of the other top teams are getting a bit long in the tooth (Spurs, Celts; Kobe is still good but getting older).

If they don't get to the finals next year, do you really think they will get better? It's not going to happen.

Neither James nor Wade can actually run an offense, muchless let someone else do it. They prohibit the offense from getting easier shots closer to the basket by being predictable and holding the ball too much. Or drive and one pass for a quick outside shot. That's not ball movement.

Wade's however is an awesome closer, yet can't pry the ball for James' cold dead hands.

There are plenty of teams that would sell their soul for James too, who's a franchise and economic cornerstone. By trading him they'd be able to make the Heat more of a rounded team, or get a more complimentary superstar to Wade than James, aka Pippen to Jordan, who never competed against Jordan like James does with Wade.

 

[11thHour]

Matt Bohner is tied with Miami right now, 12-12. Too bad other Spurs have scored another 24 points.

36-12, Spurs.

 

[jman19]

If they don't get to the finals next year, do you really think they will get better? It's not going to happen.

Neither James nor Wade can actually run an offense, muchless let someone else do it. They prohibit the offense from getting easier shots closer to the basket by being predictable and holding the ball too much. Or drive and one pass for a quick outside shot. That's not ball movement.

Wade's however is an awesome closer, yet can't pry the ball for James' cold dead hands.

There are plenty of teams that would sell their soul for James too, who's a franchise and economic cornerstone. By trading him they'd be able to make the Heat more of a rounded team, or get a more complimentary superstar to Wade than James, aka Pippen to Jordan, who never competed against Jordan like James does with Wade.

Nah, I'm not sure they'll really get better, it'll be the same cast more or less - but maybe relative to other teams they will improve.

I just think they'll keep James because it would just seem like lousy PR for the team and LeBron to quit so soon.

 

[11thHour]

Nah, I'm not sure they'll really get better, it'll be the same cast more or less - but maybe relative to other teams they will improve.

I just think they'll keep James because it would just seem like lousy PR for the team and LeBron to quit so soon.

I'm starting to wonder if Mike Brown is as inept as he looked coaching Lebron and the cavs...or if James is just uncoachable. These guys shouldn't be 'learning' at this point of the season as much as they should be 'doing'. I suspect 99% of their team's weaknesses have been pointed out long ago.

Riley has Wade's back and he's not going to let Wade suffer, his contributions towards winning as well as his image, for more than a couple years. I don't think Riley is going to blame spoelstra either, and I don't think he should.

 

[jman19]

I'm starting to wonder if Mike Brown is as inept as he looked coaching Lebron and the cavs...or if James is just uncoachable. These guys shouldn't be 'learning' at this point of the season as much as they should be 'doing'. I suspect 99% of their team's weaknesses have been pointed out long ago.

Riley has Wade's back and he's not going to let Wade suffer, his contributions towards winning as well as his image, for more than a couple years. I don't think Riley is going to blame spoelstra either, and I don't think he should.

I don't know, I can't believe they'd dump LeBron before shit-canning Spoelstra. Riley will come down to the bench before even attempting to ditch LeBron.

 

[JHoNNy1OoO]

I don't know, I can't believe they'd dump LeBron before shit-canning Spoelstra. Riley will come down to the bench before even attempting to ditch LeBron.

This can't be stressed enough. Riley would see if he could make a difference before blowing it all up.

Good news is the Heat managed to claw back to within 12 at the half. Would've been an awesome game if they weren't so incredibly awful that 1st quarter. Keep hope alive!