Koch-backed think tank hilariously finds that "Medicare For All" would save $2T in healthcare costs

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
The initial spin on this was pretty remarkable - a lot of, "Gosh how crazy are those socialists, that's $32 trillion dollars! Batty Bernie Sanders at it again!" What was left out was that would actually mean trillions of dollars less in healthcare costs compared to the current system, far more people covered, and an end to the insanity of weighing whether to get an ambulance ride or not and holding off on going to the doctor until you feel like you're going to keel over from the pain.

The Intercept - Koch-Backed Think Tank Finds That “Medicare for All” Would Cut Health Care Spending and Raise Wages. Whoops.

A NEW STUDY from the Mercatus Center at George Mason University is making headlines for projecting that Independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders’s “Medicare for All” bill is estimated to cost $32.6 trillion — a number that’s entirely in line with 2016 projections, and is literally old news. But what the Associated Press headline fails to announce is a much more sanguine update: The report, by Senior Research Strategist Charles Blahous, found that under Sanders’s plan, overall health costs would go down, and wages would go up.

The study, which came out of the Koch-funded research center, was initially provided to the AP with a cost estimate that exceeded previous ones by an incredible $3 trillion — a massive error that was found and corrected by Sanders’s staff when approached by AP for comment.

But despite that correction, the report actually yields a wealth of good news for advocates of Sanders’s plan — a remarkable conclusion, given that Blahous is a former Bush administration economist working at a prominent conservative think tank.

Blahous’s paper, titled “The Costs of a National Single-Payer Healthcare System,” estimates total national health expenditures. Even though his cost-saving estimates are more conservative than others, he acknowledges that Sanders’s “Medicare for All” plan would yield a $482 billion reduction in health care spending, and over $1.5 trillion in administrative savings, for a total of $2 trillion less in overall health care expenditures between 2022 and 2031, compared to current spending.

In order to arrive at this number, Blahous looked at how “Medicare for All” could lower administrative costs and provide savings in areas like drug spending. He concluded that by empowering the secretary of Health and Human Services to negotiate for lower drug prices, Sanders’s plan would add “$846 billion in additional savings over the 2022-2031” period. These savings, and others, are offset by certain other costs, like those which come from higher “utilization,” or the increased amount health care services used once everyone is insured.

Blahous’s report also acknowledges some substantial benefits to eliminating employer-sponsored insurance. He writes that these changes “should increase worker wage net of employer-provided health benefits,” while also “relieving individuals, families, and employers of the substantial health expenditures they would experience under current law.” The report even admits that the Sanders bill would serve as a boon to states, freeing them from most Medicaid obligations.

But despite the explicit benefits acknowledged by the Blahous study, health policy experts and single-payer advocates David U. Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler, who reviewed the Mercatus study, argue that Blahous actually significantly undercounts savings that could result from “Medicare for All.”

“The Mercatus Center’s estimate of the cost of implementing Sen. Bernie Sanders’ Medicare for All Act (M4A) projects outlandish increases in the utilization of medical care, ignores vast savings under single-payer reform, and fails to even mention the extensive and well-documented evidence on single-payer systems in other nations – which all spend far less per person on health care than we do,” Himmelstein and Woolhandler explain.

In a written analysis shared with The Intercept, Himmelstein and Woolhandler write that Blahous’s report undercounts administrative savings by more than $8.3 trillion over 10 years. Taking those savings into account would lower Blahous’s estimate from $32.6 trillion to $24.3 trillion.

Additionally, the policy experts believe that Blahous underestimates savings from drug prices; for example, ignoring the success the U.S. Veterans Administration, the Canadian government, and certain European governments have had in negotiating for lower drug prices. If the United States paid European prices, they conclude, another $1.7 trillion would be trimmed from Blahous’s total cost estimate, bringing it down to $22.6 trillion over 10 years.​
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,995
776
126
I prefer rich people have a 4th house in the Hamptons or a 5th mega yacht rather than some poor person being able to treat their cancer actually.
 

scannall

Golden Member
Jan 1, 2012
1,948
1,640
136
You may want to look a little closer at the Koch brothers, and their foundations. They aren't as Neandrathal as is often portrayed in Facebook meme's. Like supporting the legalization of marijuana. Amnesty for those currently incarcerated for it. Supporting the removal of criminal background questions on job applications, except where the law requires it. And something they have already done for their own hiring btw. Ending corporate welfare, even against their own financial interests.

That's what I hate most about current politics. It's reduced to stupid meme's, spread to push an agenda without thought. Just incitement. Playing on emotions, with tainted and misleading views. No debate. Nothing rational. Just the hate machine that grinds us all up.
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Healthcare isnt a right and socialized healthcare really needs to be abolished.

What part of "even the Koch brothers discovered that it would be more effective to institute universal health care" don't you understand?

Think about it: the US saves money and it doesn't kill off people who made the 'mistake' of being born into a low-income family. There's virtually no downside so long as it's implemented properly.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,699
6,196
126
Dude, if it is far cheaper to have socialized healthcare then the system we have now then why not implement it?
A system in which a few people win can't be maintained in a democratic system to the benefit of the few and the detriment of the many unless billions of dollars and years and years of time are invested in creating a mass brainwashed opinion that socialism is evil. People lacking an internal source of validation easily fall for that.
 

Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
Universal healthcare only works if there are specific steps as well taken to completely restructure US healthcare costs.
 

ivwshane

Lifer
May 15, 2000
32,333
15,128
136
Universal healthcare only works if there are specific steps as well taken to completely restructure US healthcare costs.

Couldn't that be said for any health care system?

The only way to fix health care without rationing is through price controls. I don't see that happening anyone soon, hell, we can't even allow the government to negotiate drug prices for the health care system under its control.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
Maybe Trump will implement it and call it 'Trumpcare', claiming it was all his idea
It isnt Putins way.. With mean life expectancy for the working class in ruskie land going to.. was it 55 or 65? Healthcare is not part of that equation.
 

boomerang

Lifer
Jun 19, 2000
18,890
642
126
How will providers deal with the greatly increased demand for healthcare when M4A will pay out to hospitals, doctors and other providers about 60% of what they are currently receiving from a mix of private insurance providers, Medicare and Medicaid?

Instead of the cherry picked information provided in the link in the OP, everyone can read the entirety of the study (it's only 24 pages and heavily footnoted) and learn the negatives of which there are many. Or, one can dwell only on the purported positives, trust in the government and hope that socialists will take over the nation and not turn us into Venezuela in your lifetime. I suspect that this will be the preferred course.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
How will providers deal with the greatly increased demand for healthcare when M4A will pay out to hospitals, doctors and other providers about 60% of what they are currently receiving from a mix of private insurance providers, Medicare and Medicaid?

Instead of the cherry picked information provided in the link in the OP, everyone can read the entirety of the study (it's only 24 pages and heavily footnoted) and learn the negatives of which there are many. Or, one can dwell only on the purported positives, trust in the government and hope that socialists will take over the nation and not turn us into Venezuela in your lifetime. I suspect that this will be the preferred course.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf

Mexico will pay the gap and be happy doing so.
 
Reactions: Engineer

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
How will providers deal with the greatly increased demand for healthcare when M4A will pay out to hospitals, doctors and other providers about 60% of what they are currently receiving from a mix of private insurance providers, Medicare and Medicaid?

Instead of the cherry picked information provided in the link in the OP, everyone can read the entirety of the study (it's only 24 pages and heavily footnoted) and learn the negatives of which there are many. Or, one can dwell only on the purported positives, trust in the government and hope that socialists will take over the nation and not turn us into Venezuela in your lifetime. I suspect that this will be the preferred course.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf
Scandinavian healthcare. Look it up. I personally dont give a shit about your health but I do socially give a shit about your healthcare.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,846
13,777
146
Everyone remember when folks like boomerang here would use Russia as the poster child for the evils of socialism.

I guess it’s obvious why they have to look elsewhere. Of course none of Europe’s mixed economies make a good example of evil socialism as they get better medical care for cheaper.

Guess that leaves Venezuela. Although I stand with boomerang about the dangers of letting an authoritarian populist run a country into the ground.

How will providers deal with the greatly increased demand for healthcare when M4A will pay out to hospitals, doctors and other providers about 60% of what they are currently receiving from a mix of private insurance providers, Medicare and Medicaid?

Instead of the cherry picked information provided in the link in the OP, everyone can read the entirety of the study (it's only 24 pages and heavily footnoted) and learn the negatives of which there are many. Or, one can dwell only on the purported positives, trust in the government and hope that socialists will take over the nation and not turn us into Venezuela in your lifetime. I suspect that this will be the preferred course.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,828
4,777
146
Everyone remember when folks like boomerang here would use Russia as the poster child for the evils of socialism.

I guess it’s obvious why they have to look elsewhere. Of course none of Europe’s mixed economies make a good example of evil socialism as they get better medical care for cheaper.

Guess that leaves Venezuela. Although I stand with boomerang about the dangers of letting an authoritarian populist run a country into the ground.

When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?
 
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