Koch-backed think tank hilariously finds that "Medicare For All" would save $2T in healthcare costs

[vi edit]

Who knew that unified biller who could negotiate at a national level, prevent expensive ER visits, and provide inexpensive therapy instead of ultra expensive interventions would actually save money?

I think that if we move that way it will be some form of payroll tax in addition to an on-site nominal co-pay. The copay is there to maintain some level solvency and is much easier to adjust than payroll taxes across tens of thousands of employers. It also is there to somewhat curve abuse of over-visits.

 

[vi edit]

When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?

Counterpoint - do you know how many seniors hop across the border to Mexico for basic health care and dental work? Or over to Canada for cheaper drug prices?

 

[Homerboy]

When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?

You do realize that people constantly fly FROM the US specifically for treatment for the latest (and cost effective) in medical innovations right?

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/...s-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You

 

[boomerang]

Scandinavian healthcare. Look it up. I personally dont give a shit about your health but I do socially give a shit about your healthcare.

I looked it up Citizen of Europe. Parasiting off of the U.S. and massive rationing. Progressives such as yourself made your minds up from pie-in-the-sky data that did not prove out. The progressive ideology as a whole is based in this. So much in love with the idea of something that the reality is completely ignored. It sounded great, is not working, did not work, led to the suffering and deaths of millions... You tuned me out at sounded great didn't you? The leftist half a plan strikes again.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Counterpoint - do you know how many seniors hop across the border to Mexico for basic health care and dental work? Or over to Canada for cheaper drug prices?

You do realize that people constantly fly FROM the US specifically for treatment for the latest (and cost effective) in medical innovations right?

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/...s-Will-Go-Abroad-Medical-Care-Year-Should-You

Absolutely. If you want to take risks for potentially screwing up your life...for the rest of your life... all to save some pocket change - more power to you? Be glad you're in a country that allows you to freely do such if you please.

From your article:

2. There are still serious risks. In addition to trouble arising from language barriers and culture shock, the standard safety practices in the United States may not be used in international hospitals. You may be more likely to receive counterfeit medications or blood that hasn’t been properly screened than you would here, according to the Centers for Disease Control.

You're both still DUHverting from my point that in 'MERICUH we have the latest innovations in healthcare. Thats what people fly here for. Not because it's cheap - but because it is something other countries cannot necessarily perform.

 

[dank69]

When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?

How much do you think your employer pays for your healthcare? How much do you pay on top of that? If it was shown that your taxes would go up but your wages would go up to compensate and your employer would actually pay less for labor since they don't have to pay for healthcare, would you shut the fuck up at that point?

 

[vi edit]

A vast majority of "Healthcare" visits don't require innovations. It's about basic diagnostic and treatment of a billion different things. Don't go chasing zebras when most of your patients are horses.

 

[Commodus]

You're both still DUHverting from my point that in 'MERICUH we have the latest innovations in healthcare. Thats what people fly here for. Not because it's cheap - but because it is something other countries cannot necessarily perform.

The US also ruins people's financial lives for injuries they didn't cause and cancer they couldn't have anticipated, so I wouldn't exactly celebrate the US as a bastion of health care. It has technological innovation; it also has a screwed up system that makes sure only a fraction of the public can use that innovation without tremendous sacrifices.

 

[thilanliyan]

Healthcare isnt a right and socialized healthcare really needs to be abolished.

Isn't "with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" in the US declaration of independence? Sounds like even back then they were advocating for Universal healthcare

 

[deathBOB]

I don’t see why pro-market forces are so against this on a conceptual level. It’s clear that there’s no “market” for healthcare or competition to drive down costs. It’s simply unlike other areas of the economy.

Absolutely. If you want to take risks for potentially screwing up your life...for the rest of your life... all to save some pocket change - more power to you? Be glad you're in a country that allows you to freely do such if you please.

From your article:



You're both still DUHverting from my point that in 'MERICUH we have the latest innovations in healthcare. Thats what people fly here for. Not because it's cheap - but because it is something other countries cannot necessarily perform.

Innovations don’t mean anything when the outcomes aren’t better or normal people simply don’t have access due to economic barriers. We spend more than other countries and get worse results.

(And I dispute the notion that a single payer system would significantly reduce healthcare innovation. Sure, the pharmaceutical or medical device industries may feel some cost pressure, but they will still be huge industries, and the US will continue to directly fund tons of research.)

 

[Blackjack200]

A vast majority of "Healthcare" visits don't require innovations. It's about basic diagnostic and treatment of a billion different things. Don't go chasing zebras when most of your patients are horses.

Yeah, a lot of people are suffering or dying because they can't get enough donations on gofundme for their insulin.

 

[UNCjigga]

Ahem, less than 24 hours after Koch donor network signals they may support moderate Democrats...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024236805477097472?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024239166429769729?s=21

Who knew I'd live to see the day when Kochs bolster Medicare for All, look to appease Democrats, and draw the wrath of a "Republican" President. And here I thought it was the Democratic Socialists tearing their party apart?

These midterms are going to be fun.

 

[VRAMdemon]

I suspect that this is not the most genius thing to tweet...It's on

Trump - "The globalist Koch Brothers, who have become a total joke in real Republican circles, are against strong borders and powerful trade. I never sought their support because I don’t need their money or bad ideas," Trump wrote in a post on Twitter.

"Their network is highly overrated, I have beaten them at every turn."

Of course he doesn't need Koch money, he has Putin money. His main issue with them is, they didn't kiss his ass. And it probably infuriates him that they don't have to!

The Kochs share a hefty share of the blame for the state of our government anyway, with their bribes (so called "contributions").

 

[fskimospy]

When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?

Those other countries spend considerably less of their GDP on health care than the US with similar outcomes for most diseases. Since % of GDP captures all spending we can be sure it wasn't paid for in another form.

 

[zinfamous]

File this under: "Everyone knew this thirty years ago, assholes."

 

[zinfamous]

Healthcare isnt a right and socialized healthcare really needs to be abolished.

You never had a right to be alive, more than anyone else, yet here we all are, stuck with you.

 

[cytg111]

I looked it up Citizen of Europe. Parasiting off of the U.S. and massive rationing. Progressives such as yourself made your minds up from pie-in-the-sky data that did not prove out. The progressive ideology as a whole is based in this. So much in love with the idea of something that the reality is completely ignored. It sounded great, is not working, did not work, led to the suffering and deaths of millions... You tuned me out at sounded great didn't you? The leftist half a plan strikes again.

Nope, we took all the best from you guys after ww2, made it better, sprinkled a little socialism NOT communism on top and here we are. I am fully aware that we in part is standing on the shoulders of your forefathers, such is history a mistress of facts.. Fact is, now it is your turn to catch up, we have shown you the way just like you showed us. Giddy up boomer you dont want to be the last horse in the race.

 

[dainthomas]

Dude, if it is far cheaper to have socialized healthcare then the system we have now then why not implement it?

Because in Murica we have the freedom to be bankrupted by medical bills and die in agony from easily preventable diseases when we run out of money.

 

[cytg111]

Ahem, less than 24 hours after Koch donor network signals they may support moderate Democrats...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024236805477097472?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024239166429769729?s=21

Who knew I'd live to see the day when Kochs bolster Medicare for All, look to appease Democrats, and draw the wrath of a "Republican" President. And here I thought it was the Democratic Socialists tearing their party apart?

These midterms are going to be fun.

Jesus fucking superstar christ! When the top 0.01% has had enough of the bullshit you KNOW the boat be rocking.. Holy shits. Plural.

 

[Homerboy]

Isn't "with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" in the US declaration of independence? Sounds like even back then they were advocating for Universal healthcare

Let's not forget the Preamble “to promote the general Welfare. ”

 

[Homerboy]

Ahem, less than 24 hours after Koch donor network signals they may support moderate Democrats...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024236805477097472?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024239166429769729?s=21

Who knew I'd live to see the day when Kochs bolster Medicare for All, look to appease Democrats, and draw the wrath of a "Republican" President. And here I thought it was the Democratic Socialists tearing their party apart?

These midterms are going to be fun.

Yeah - this is not a good moment for the GOP. You're going to have more fractures occurring now for sure.

 

[Blackjack200]

Yeah - this is not a good moment for the GOP. You're going to have more fractures occurring now for sure.

I don't know about that, there's no real constituency for the Koch lizards. All that libertarian shit is astroturfed with huge political spending. The center of gravity in the republican party right now is nationalism, anti immigration, trade protectionism, and culture war shit. No one gives a shit about deficits.

 

[dank69]

Ahem, less than 24 hours after Koch donor network signals they may support moderate Democrats...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024236805477097472?s=21
https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1024239166429769729?s=21

Who knew I'd live to see the day when Kochs bolster Medicare for All, look to appease Democrats, and draw the wrath of a "Republican" President. And here I thought it was the Democratic Socialists tearing their party apart?

These midterms are going to be fun.

I have no idea why the Koch's haven't supported M4A all along, other than not wanting to admit liberals were right and they were wrong. You'd think they'd be sick of having to pay for health insurance for their employees.

 

[Sunburn74]

How will providers deal with the greatly increased demand for healthcare when M4A will pay out to hospitals, doctors and other providers about 60% of what they are currently receiving from a mix of private insurance providers, Medicare and Medicaid?

Instead of the cherry picked information provided in the link in the OP, everyone can read the entirety of the study (it's only 24 pages and heavily footnoted) and learn the negatives of which there are many. Or, one can dwell only on the purported positives, trust in the government and hope that socialists will take over the nation and not turn us into Venezuela in your lifetime. I suspect that this will be the preferred course.

https://www.mercatus.org/system/files/blahous-costs-medicare-mercatus-working-paper-v1_1.pdf

The major difference in the cost of healthcare between the US and other similarly industrialized countries isn't usage rates (ie how many people get healthcare, or how much testing/stuff gets ordered during the care of those patients) but rather the specific costs of the items involved.

In addition, 90% of healthcare in the US occurs in the outpatient setting and 60-70% of a patient's lifetime healthcare costs occur in the last 6 months of life.

Healthcare costs in the US isn't an access problem; its a cost/financial incentive problem.

 

[senseamp]

I looked it up Citizen of Europe. Parasiting off of the U.S. and massive rationing. Progressives such as yourself made your minds up from pie-in-the-sky data that did not prove out. The progressive ideology as a whole is based in this. So much in love with the idea of something that the reality is completely ignored. It sounded great, is not working, did not work, led to the suffering and deaths of millions... You tuned me out at sounded great didn't you? The leftist half a plan strikes again.

They live longer and spend a lot less. Parasiting off US are American hospitals, pharma and insurance companies. Sweden is simply taking care of its own people.