Koch-backed think tank hilariously finds that "Medicare For All" would save $2T in healthcare costs

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Blackjack200

Lifer
May 28, 2007
15,995
1,685
126
I have no idea why the Koch's haven't supported M4A all along, other than not wanting to admit liberals were right and they were wrong. You'd think they'd be sick of having to pay for health insurance for their employees.

My guess is that their ultimate goal is elimination of public health programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and then attacking the insurance requirements in Obamacare so they can eventually provide a small portion of their workforce with health plans rather than all the FTEs.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
35,597
29,300
136
My guess is that their ultimate goal is elimination of public health programs like Medicare and Medicaid, and then attacking the insurance requirements in Obamacare so they can eventually provide a small portion of their workforce with health plans rather than all the FTEs.
Yeah, after this study they must have realized it will just be easier to go M4A. Their utopia of all the peasants working for them for stale bread and water isn't going to happen no matter how many Republicans get elected.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,499
136
I looked it up Citizen of Europe. Parasiting off of the U.S. and massive rationing. Progressives such as yourself made your minds up from pie-in-the-sky data that did not prove out. The progressive ideology as a whole is based in this. So much in love with the idea of something that the reality is completely ignored. It sounded great, is not working, did not work, led to the suffering and deaths of millions... You tuned me out at sounded great didn't you? The leftist half a plan strikes again.

It is literally working today in countries all over the developed world, leading to generally better health outcomes at a far lower percentage of GDP.

It's amusing that someone who lives in a total fantasy world such as yourself would try and tell other people about the reality of the situation. You're mentally unwell and I hope you get better.
 

rommelrommel

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2002
4,389
3,120
146
I looked it up Citizen of Europe. Parasiting off of the U.S. and massive rationing. Progressives such as yourself made your minds up from pie-in-the-sky data that did not prove out. The progressive ideology as a whole is based in this. So much in love with the idea of something that the reality is completely ignored. It sounded great, is not working, did not work, led to the suffering and deaths of millions... You tuned me out at sounded great didn't you? The leftist half a plan strikes again.


I’m not sure what exactly your problem is but you should really see a doctor of some sort. Universal healthcare has challenges but it’s working in the rest of the developed world.
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
9,460
1,570
96
Yeah, after this study they must have realized it will just be easier to go M4A. Their utopia of all the peasants working for them for stale bread and water isn't going to happen no matter how many Republicans get elected.
This didn't work out all that well the last time the upper classes tried this. Remember the consent revolts they had to put down?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
I suspect that this is not the most genius thing to tweet...It's on

Trump - "The globalist Koch Brothers, who have become a total joke in real Republican circles, are against strong borders and powerful trade. I never sought their support because I don’t need their money or bad ideas," Trump wrote in a post on Twitter.

"Their network is highly overrated, I have beaten them at every turn."

Of course he doesn't need Koch money, he has Putin money. His main issue with them is, they didn't kiss his ass. And it probably infuriates him that they don't have to!

The Kochs share a hefty share of the blame for the state of our government anyway, with their bribes (so called "contributions").

The funny thing is that Pence is a Koch plant--he's basically an empty vessel for information and policy exchange from the Kochs to wherever the Kocks want influence. I think he's basically their deadman switch with Trump, as well.

grabbing pussies? Family man Pence doesn't care.
raping women? family man Pence doesn't care.
Insulting Jesus? family man religious Pence doesn't care.
Piss off the Kochs? Pence pulls a knife.

Donald is also lying, yet again, because the Kochs went all-in on him only after he tapped Pence, just as they told him to. He took metric shit-tons of their money, and did their express bidding to do so. Good luck there, Donny.
 
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WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
183
106
When you guys cite "better medical care for cheaper" - what are you basing that on? Can you even cite for me the taxes that they pay there vs. here? You do realize just because their medical bill is low, doesn't mean that it wasn't paid in another form [taxes, obviously] - right?

Can you tell me why people constantly fly to the US specifically for treatment for the latest in medical innovation still?

So they can boast about it at their next yacht party? It seems people against universal healthcare do so because they consider it a loss of THEIR privilege.
 
Reactions: cytg111

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,244
2,260
136
There used to be a lot of repeal and replace talk. What happened to that? Where is the replacement plan? Did the Spy form trump’s campaign steal it?
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
There used to be a lot of repeal and replace talk. What happened to that? Where is the replacement plan? Did the Spy form trump’s campaign steal it?

FYGM is the replacement plan. Everybody knows it. The only reason everybody isn't wealthy is because they're lazy & stupid. Be ashamed if you're not.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

zzyzxroad

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2017
3,244
2,260
136
FYGM is the replacement plan. Everybody knows it. The only reason everybody isn't wealthy is because they're lazy & stupid. Be ashamed if you're not.
Sadly, except the GM part isn't happening... not for the masses. It's easy to sling mud but coming up with solutions it turns out is much harder. Wonder if scapegoats will become an endangered species before 2020.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,040
136
The funny thing is that Pence is a Koch plant--he's basically an empty vessel for information and policy exchange from the Kochs to wherever the Kocks want influence. I think he's basically their deadman switch with Trump, as well.

grabbing pussies? Family man Pence doesn't care.
raping women? family man Pence doesn't care.
Insulting Jesus? family man religious Pence doesn't care.
Piss off the Kochs? Pence pulls a knife.

Donald is also lying, yet again, because the Kochs went all-in on him only after he tapped Pence, just as they told him to. He took metric shit-tons of their money, and did their express bidding to do so. Good luck there, Donny.
Brett Kavanaugh is a Koch man through and through and look who nominated him. The Kochs are in it for the long haul, Trump is nothing more than a speed-bump to them. They've got 28 out of the 34 states needed to get the first constitutional convention ever. When that happens, watch out, the constitution will be no more as we know it today.
 
Reactions: darkswordsman17

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Isn't "with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" in the US declaration of independence? Sounds like even back then they were advocating for Universal healthcare

Okay, I'll trade you: I'll interpret it to advocate Universal Healthcare if you'll interpret it to be Pro-Life.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
23,548
13,115
136
he's right. why would you disagree?
I dont think you have a grasp of how people work and I dont think you realize what distance you currently are from the pitchfork scenario and what the two possible scenarios after that are.
 

Atreus21

Lifer
Aug 21, 2007
12,007
572
126
Kowtow to my religious nuttery or we'll let you die from a lack of basic medical care.

That's an amazingly pro-life position it sounds very Christ like.

Hey, if you guys want your silly interpetations of the right to life, you have to permit us ours.

Or is this only a one way street, as is becoming a popular trend among progressives?
 

Commodus

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2004
9,215
6,818
136
Hey, if you guys want your silly interpetations of the right to life, you have to permit us ours.

Or is this only a one way street, as is becoming a popular trend among progressives?

Our version allows you to practice your views. Your approach doesn't allow us to practice ours (including non-religious views). You see the problem here? Yours is theocracy; ours is freedom.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
Isn't "with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" in the US declaration of independence? Sounds like even back then they were advocating for Universal healthcare

You have the right to life. Government may not take it from you (uh...in theory). You do not have the right to demand resources (time, money, work, services) from people to keep you alive. That would go against the word "Liberty".

None of this actually deals with the root of the problem: health care costs in America are extremely high compared with costs of the same care in any other developed (or undeveloped) nation. We are throwing money away on insane drug and administration costs and getting angry at people who don't support this.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
Healthcare isnt a right and socialized healthcare really needs to be abolished.
You won't feel so smug and happy when you're pointed to the door with your terminal illness because you can't afford the price tag of treatment. Compassion is for suckers, eh? "Death to all those who would whimper and cry, and dropping a barbell he points to the sky saying 'the sun's not yellow, it's chicken'!" - Bob Dylan, Highway 61 Revisited
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
37,841
8,305
136
Well he did say the government has no business regulating auto emissions.
If not the government, then who? Government exists because some things need to be done that aren't going to be done without it. Admit it, it's the honest truth.
 
Reactions: whm1974
Mar 11, 2004
23,177
5,641
146
You have the right to life. Government may not take it from you (uh...in theory). You do not have the right to demand resources (time, money, work, services) from people to keep you alive. That would go against the word "Liberty".

None of this actually deals with the root of the problem: health care costs in America are extremely high compared with costs of the same care in any other developed (or undeveloped) nation. We are throwing money away on insane drug and administration costs and getting angry at people who don't support this.

So let me get this right, it says you have the right to life, but you actually don't as long as it involves anything but explicit outright murder by the government (which uh, it doesn't even actually include that...)? Seems like there's a contradiction there?

How would the government providing health care coverage, which will automatically include managing costs, not deal with the problem of health care cost? What people are we angry at that don't support this? Because I don't know if you've actually talked to Republican politicians but they absolutely fucking do support insane drug and administration costs via their demand that it should be up to the free market. Which makes sense when companies can get sole rights to produce a drug, that sure sounds like a free market to me. Likewise, location for a hospital means that in health care situations, you're going to go to the closest one, not have time to fucking shop around and go "oh, but we could possibly save some money if we drive an hour further away". Again, free market cannot fucking control shit like that.

To be fair though, we definitely have been mad at Democrats when they don't support that shit, but they did what they did because people will blindly support Republicans (or even not blindly now, they openly gloat about Republicans fucking everyone over, but as long as liberals are getting it too, its all fine), so they tried to find a way to improve things while compromising with Republicans. And then, even though its shown to be successful, the Republicans did nothing but try to sabotage and tear it down, openly admitting they have no plan to improve any aspect of it and knowing it would fuck over millions of Americans (and tearing down the ACA will in no way stop the cost of health care problems), but they just have to let it fucking burn "because Democrats".
 
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Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,939
766
136
So let me get this right, it says you have the right to life, but you actually don't as long as it involves anything but explicit outright murder by the government (which uh, it doesn't even actually include that...)? Seems like there's a contradiction there?

Can the government literally impoverish you and I in order to give someone else an extra 3 months? May they force doctors to work for free in order to accomplish this? The constitution says that you have the right to life. It may be taken from you via due process, but the constitution is not a declaration of the government's responsibility to enforce that you can live.

Either way I can't support this when the real issue isn't that America doesn't spend enough on health care (it does), the real issue is that so much of the money doesn't actually go toward caring for people's health. There are too many people lining their pockets with "dur it's for teh healths" money who contribute nothing to actual health. And too many people profiting too much due to government enforced economic inefficiencies.

How would the government providing health care coverage, which will automatically include managing costs, not deal with the problem of health care cost?

Government is not known by anybody as an efficient entity at anything other than increasing its budget and making sure its buddies get sweet deals.

I don't know if you've actually talked to Republican politicians

Ewww, gross.

but they absolutely fucking do support insane drug and administration costs via their demand that it should be up to the free market. Which makes sense when companies can get sole rights to produce a drug, that sure sounds like a free market to me.

You and I agree on this: it is not a free market when I'm jailed and treated like an evil piece of filth if I attempt to purchase cheaper drugs from overseas and consume them here. This is not a free market, it is a government enforced monopoly. Anyone who advocates for free markets yet supports enforcing these monopolies is a hypocrite and a liar.

Likewise, location for a hospital means that in health care situations, you're going to go to the closest one, not have time to fucking shop around and go "oh, but we could possibly save some money if we drive an hour further away". Again, free market cannot fucking control shit like that.

We make these kinds of choices every day with our decisions on what to purchase from where and this absolutely drives markets. I can choose to buy water/soda/chips from the local gas station because it is convenient and only 1/4 mile away. Or I could drive 4 miles to the nearest grocery store and purchase the same items at a 20% discount. When time is important, I choose the option that saves me time. The gas station thrives because it fulfills a niche. So does the grocery store.

Luckily in health care, the urgent life or death health care situations are a small minority of overall hospital visits and there are far more than enough non-urgent hospital visits to drive the market, if that market is allowed to exist.

To be fair though, we definitely have been mad at Democrats when they don't support that shit, but they did what they did because people will blindly support Republicans (or even not blindly now, they openly gloat about Republicans fucking everyone over, but as long as liberals are getting it too, its all fine), so they tried to find a way to improve things while compromising with Republicans. And then, even though its shown to be successful, the Republicans did nothing but try to sabotage and tear it down, openly admitting they have no plan to improve any aspect of it and knowing it would fuck over millions of Americans (and tearing down the ACA will in no way stop the cost of health care problems), but they just have to let it fucking burn "because Democrats".

I'm not a fan of teams either. Teams suck and exist only to convince people to support shit they shouldn't support.
 
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