Its funny seeing posters plead a case for teachers when most of the time...P&N shits on teachers.
Its funny seeing posters plead a case for teachers when most of the time...P&N shits on teachers.
Parents, or nuke it from orbit. I'm undecided.If you compare our scores to countries like South Korea, we are getting trounced. What's the solution?
The same as when it's 30, but a little harder? Or, even, maybe that's not their job. Without others around them to foster critical thinking, they won't. A teacher can help, but that's not it. The surrounding culture makes a difference. If it's enough a part of the culture, then imparting knowledge in school should be enough.Korean educators do not teach critical thinking skills to their children. They don't incorporate holistic teaching, scaffolding, metacongnition skills, and differentiation into their lessons. How could they when class size is normally 40-60 students?
That's already done, and gets equally fucked up as the rest of it. My HS did that, and apparently still not only is doing it, but the same way, from what I hear. Dumb shits and problem kids get votech, smart and well-behaving kids get college prep (yes, furthering the negative social stereotype of tradesmen). Now, well-behaving kids probably should get college prep, but why should young people that don't have a clue about the world outside of school have an exclusive choice made for them? Oh, yeah, they choose it, but they have no useful information, so it really gets made by counselors and/or parents. Why shouldn't both groups be exposed to both sides of things? If HS is going to become a vocational school environment, the students with sufficient mental capability shouldn't be able to choose an exclusive path until after taking enough classes from both sides of the fence, IMO.3. Starting at the 9th grade, students would have the choice of either taking a college-prep high school track or a vocational track.
Despite that both of the former are things children are typically capable of prior to being able to read, while the latter typically takes a few more years of development. How is any kid supposed to learn math or science without having their natural tendency towards creativity stimulated? Sure, they can memorize a symbol, but that won't do any good for anything in the future.Exactly. Worry about "problem solving" and "creativity" only after you get them to know basic science and math.
P&N isn't some sort of hive mind.
There are people here with just about every imaginable viewpoint.
Do you see anyone here "pleading a case for teachers" who you've also seen shitting on teachers at another time? Like, one poster doing both?
Or are you stereotyping? Profiling?
Teachers get a bad rap here for whatever reason.
I think teachers are underpaid. I think teachers are under-appreciated.
Bottom line, beating education into somebody with 12 hour school days will not produce a Steve Jobs.
"We?" You probably have difficulty tying your shoes in the morning.It's why we do software and movies so well.
Gee, I wonder why a country with such awesome test scores wants to steal intellectual property from a country with abysmal scores in the same fields?
"We?" You probably have difficulty tying your shoes in the morning.
Testing poorly is not related to creativity. Spend some time over at niconico.
I wonder. Could it possibly be because needlessly reinventing the wheel places you at a massive economic disadvantage, and failure to invent it leaves you open to Western imperialism?
China has made 100 years of progress in 15 years through a system designed to do just that, and you think this indicates stupidity?
A few things could be done to make schooling better across the board, not just in the US.
Handwriting skills:- I am a Doctoral candidate, I have taught at various places, and handwriting is shocking because people focus on typing etc on a computer. I made it standard that all of my homework was handwritten. If it was illegible, then they failed.
Starting school at a younger age. The brain is a sponge, especially when young. A child at 3-4 will learn much more than a child of 5-6. My daughter is 4, she can count to 100, can write legibly and knows some of the skeletal system (phalanges, fibula, tibia, ulna, radius etc).
Age 4-16 is better for learning English, Maths, Science, Social Sciences (history, geography, economics), Linguistics (Spanish, French, German, Mandarin).
Age 16-18 College or Apprenticeship. Choose 3 courses to further your understanding of them, or learn a trade. 3 courses could be psychology, law, history, maths, english...anything academic. Trade could include IT, welding, base engineering, mechanics etc. Apprenticeship is as it says, working in any environment and earning whilst you learn, and most likely be kept on at the end of it.
18+ University. As it currently is.
Academic year - needs to change, drastically.
Start the 1st Monday of September.
1 week break 6 weeks later (around the 10th October)
Preceeding Friday and Successive Monday off for thanks giving.
2 week break at christmas/newyear (starting around 20th December)
1 week break in February (around the 10th February).
2 week break for Easter
1 week break at the end of May
6 week break at the middle of July.
This reduces the whole holiday time to 12/13 weeks per academic year. This means in turn families can afford to go to work without having to take so much time off in the year to look after the kids, or paying disproportionate costs for childcare. It also means that the children get more time to learn, thus improving their overall abilities, and knowledge.
Next, scrap scholarships based on physical abilities. This means that to progress in life, you need to earn it. Don't make the grade in class, you don't play on the field. The teams on the field need to achieve a minimum of a B-/C+ average throughout the year on all work. This also removes dumbasses from passing college and highschool when they in theory, shouldn't even make it to the next academic year.
Last 2 weeks of July = Exam weeks. To pass the year, C- is needed, anything lower means either going to special classes after school, or repeating the year in its entirety if too many exams are flunked.
Teachers should also get pay based on the area they live. With living costs adjusted, they should all get the same. So someone in London (which is the most expensive place to live in the UK. A loaf of bread in London costs £1.80) and someone in Lincoln (which is the cheapest place to live in the UK with a loaf of bread costing £0.45). The teachers pay should be proportional to the cost of living.
Homework - restrict it to half hour a day, per subject, with no more than 2 subjects setting homework per day. All homework should be handwritten, for reasons listed at the start.
Funding schools - every school (unless privately funded schools from parents paying per semester for tutoring costs) should receive funding based on student numbers. Each student should equate to roughly £1500 for the academic year. This is to be spent on resources and materials for the classes (not teachers pay).
Finally, teaching fiscal responsibility is another thing which should be mandatory, learning to manage money properly is a big help and should be taught in schools everywhere.
This would help drastically, but would cost massively too much to implement.
Teachers - Remove tenure. If students fail the exams, teachers jobs are not safe. This way, the teachers will work harder to ensure the students learn. Teachers should also receive bonuses based on performance. If a whole class passes the exams with a C average, they get say £1000 bonus. If they get a B average its £2500. If they get an A average they get a £5000 bonus.
Teachers - Remove tenure. If students fail the exams, teachers jobs are not safe. This way, the teachers will work harder to ensure the students learn. Teachers should also receive bonuses based on performance. If a whole class passes the exams with a C average, they get say £1000 bonus. If they get a B average its £2500. If they get an A average they get a £5000 bonus.
nehalem said:That has to be one of the stupidest ideas I have ever heard. Do we still live in the 19th Century?
People learn typing because computer created documents are substantially superior to hand-written. Not only is legibility a given, but it can be transmitted electronically, copies are easily made, and it is easier to archive. Oh, and it is how all business communications will be done in the future.
But I think you highlighted an important issue with schooling. It seems to me that a lot of people get a kind of "pet project" idea on how to fix the school system. When their idea really does nothing to fix any real problems.
nehalem said:Of course given that it is the students that you know actually have to do the assigned work to learn the material and take the exams don't you see an obvious problem here?
engineer said:Remove bullshit rules like No Child Left Behind and we can talk. Also remove the bullshit inside politics where the Principles would stack their friend's classrooms with the best and brightest, not to mention the school system's ideal of stacking certain schools with the best and brightest (I see this year in and year out).
I agree the politics in a school where the best and brightest are loaded into a class is a bad thing. I was a high achiever in school, and was put in "top set" for everything, so we had "the best" teachers etc. My theory is, if a child needs help in an area, give them the help they need, in the form of after school clubs, or a dedicated teachers aid for that child.
For those with special needs, they should go to a special needs school where they would be catered for with the specialist help they need.
For those with an attitude problem, find out what interests them, use that as a reward for them to learn, if that fails, a drill sergeant would help!
Despite that both of the former are things children are typically capable of prior to being able to read, while the latter typically takes a few more years of development. How is any kid supposed to learn math or science without having their natural tendency towards creativity stimulated? Sure, they can memorize a symbol, but that won't do any good for anything in the future.
The test scores are in and our students get a F! Under the Common Core education guidelines the standardized test that the children take are much harder. Even charter schools failed miserably.
http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/08/common-core-in-crosshairs-after-schools-get-f/
We are getting creamed internationally. Our math and science scores are abysmally low. If you compare our scores to countries like South Korea, we are getting trounced. What's the solution?
Are teachers in South Korea better at educating their students? I don't think so. They mainly use a route style of teaching, which was taken from the American school system 60 years ago. I've witnessed a few classes where the teacher will just shout at the children and they repeat what the teacher just said. Korean educators do not teach critical thinking skills to their children. They don't incorporate holistic teaching, scaffolding, metacongnition skills, and differentiation into their lessons. How could they when class size is normally 40-60 students?
Yet, they score at the top in science and math. The one thing that struck me when I first arrived in South Korea was the amount of time students spend in school. When they reach high school they are normally in school from 7:30am-7:00pm. They then go home and do homework. The cycle just repeats. Weekends are spent studying and cramming for test. After school programs are necessary as well. English, math, piano, violin and science schools are filled with children. This just doesn't happen in America.
Asian parents are more involved, and they have higher expectations then Western parents. I just read a book titled "The Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother." It's a very interesting look at how a Chinese mother brought up her children. She used the tough love approach. Maybe it was a bit extreme. Most Asian mothers tend to be very strict. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_Hymn_of_the_Tiger_Mother
There are plenty of negatives. Korean students are miserable. They have the 2nd highest suicide rate in the world. The stress that these children face is immense. Parents, teachers, and society put a lot of pressure on students to excel in the classroom. Good paying jobs are scarce as well. Most students want nothing more then to get into the best colleges. Competition is fierce!
The world is drastically changing. When our children reach adulthood, will they have the skills to compete with workers from other countries? I can only imagine what the workforce will be like in 20 years. There are no easy answers, but something has to be done.
But six hour days will produce idiots who think Steve Jobs was anything special.
He fleeced sheeple. All that takes is the capacity to lie, the willingness to do it, some money, and some luck.
Steve Jobs added nothing of value to society. (inb4 you think money means he had actual value)
Disagreed. Basic framework of science and math HAS to be instilled before you go nitty gritty into the details of how we got there. You really Einstein would be the same without the same mastery of complex math?
Disagreed. Basic framework of science and math HAS to be instilled before you go nitty gritty into the details of how we got there. You really Einstein would be the same without the same mastery of complex math?
Einstein dropped out of school and taught himself AFAIK.
And a lot of the math education nowadays is attempting to have people "discover"(or teach themselves) math.
Unfortunately most people are not Einstein.