kyro 2 at cheap prices !!!

[pidge]

<< hum I see... you don't like my attacks on nvidia...
they were not just attacks... I was reporting facts ... >>



You do not report facts powervr2. You look for any anti-NVIDIA rumour and try to make it out to be a fact. NVIDIA is big not because of their business tactics but because they continue to roll out some of the best hardware in its class. It's o.k. to like KyroII video cards. I like them to but if you consistantly try to rip NVIDIA cards as much as you do, it makes you out to be a troll. I am probably perceived as a troll from time to time too because of what I say about ATI but at least I don't go around saying ATI=evil or ATI=crappy drivers. I just go around explaining certain things about NVIDIA that people may not be clear on when people start bashing NVIDIA and point out ATI issues when people make it out to be like NVIDIA sucks, ATI is perfect.



<< maybe there are great guys on nvidia side (engineers,etc...I am sure of that) but the people in the top (marketing, decision makers) are stupid/mad/bad people that think that the world belongs to nvidia...
they are actually penalising nvidia in the long term ... >>



NVIDIA knows that they are doing. You may not agree with some of their business tactics, especially if you believe every rumour about NVIDIA that you hear but in the business world, they are regarded as one of the most best (marketing, pr, product managers etc.). Just read what financial analysts have to say about NVIDIA.



<< I also think that kyro have some downside also ...
the biggest of them all is that it needs a good cpu for T&amp;L . >>



and that they will constantly require updated drivers due to their tile based rendering.



<< other than that and bacause of kyro price.. I don't find much more problems with kyro... >>



I am not going to get into KyroII faults because NVIDIA cards have faults and so does ATI and Matrox. Every video card have lots of faults.

 

[jobberd]

well spoken pidge. I agree with you whole-heartedly

 

[MGallik]

I don't. powervr2 is one of the few who actually backs up his info
with facts and links. It's all of you who post your personal opinions
with half truths and selected snips of reviews who are the trolls.

 

[nam ng]

Trolls and Fanatics practiced the same low-fife tactics they whined about

 

[Silverforce]

Let's just put all the facts on the table here about the two brands..

GF2 vs Kyro II:

Main difference:
- Tile Rendering

Kyro II:
- 1 pipeline
- SDR memory
- No T&amp;L
- True 32 bit rendering

GF2:
- 4 pipeline
- DDR memory
- 2nd Generation T&amp;L

Whom is fastest? Depends on games with high or low overdraw complexities.. but average wise, they are very close in performance, especially Kyro on fast CPUs. Not to mention graphic quality is superior.

Therefore, from the information above.. which card has the superior technolgy? I would obviously say Kyro II. For a card that's 25Mhz slower, 3 less pipelines, half the memory bandwitdh, and no hardware T&amp;L, you would expect it to perform like crap. But it's neck and neck a much more powerful GF2.

Imagine if the GF2 used Tile Rendering and have those specs.. hot damn, it would litterally blow everything out of the water.

Now all i have to say is: When the hell is nVidia and other graphics company going to realise using the traditional 3d rendering developed over 40 years ago is ineffecient?

We dont give a jack-all about their theoretic fill rates. All that matters is the real numbers.. the number obviously limited by ram. And there are three current solutions.

1. Faster Ram (embedded, rambus, speedier DDR)
2. Better design solutions (such as hyperZ or lightspeed)
3. Tile Base Rendering

Solution 1:
Good: Least modification and R&amp;D needed, hence can implement faster.
Bad: Rambus is expensive, and has higher latency. Embedded will increase die size, also amount of ram will be limited to 32mb. Faster DDR will obviously be a slower advancement, seeing as DDR ram speed hikes wont go much faster than 4ns. Out of these three embedded is the most effective.

Solution 2:
Good: Lessens the need for increase bandwidth.
Bad: Increase R&amp;D expenditure, development time, meaning more expensive product. There comes a point where the design will reach its peak climax, or out performing the bandwidth.. hence, will prove ineffective, or not as effective.

Solution 3:
Good: Immediate improvement without the need for new bandwitdh management. In future, this solution accompanied with Solution 2 and 3 will prove to be the most effective combination of 3d acceleration. Has a lot of head room in terms of performance. Can use less expensive ram solutions.
Bad: New technology will have its flaws, but will certainly improve with time. (current method is 40 years old, ofcourse its been proven). Requires licensing, which will cost money (unless they invent their own method, which requires extensive R&amp;D).

It looks to me like the Kyro 3 250mhz core equipped with 4 pipelines, T&amp;L engine, and DDR is basically my description of a GF2 using Tile Rendering.. one mean piece of hardware.. considering Tile Rendering can give a card 1/4 as strong (1 pipe), 7/8 (175mhz) and 1/2 (SDR) slow the same performance as GF2. This would possibly mean the Kyro 3 will perform equal to a card with 12 - 16 pipes, clocked 292.5Mhz, not to mention ram speeds around 800Mhz. Can someone say ouch?!

However, im not a fan of the current Kyro solutions due to its still high cost. But im a fan of Tile Rendering.

 

[pidge]

<< I don't. powervr2 is one of the few who actually backs up his info
with facts and links. It's all of you who post your personal opinions
with half truths and selected snips of reviews who are the trolls. >>



Did you read his post on &quot;NVIDIA=evil&quot;? Did you he his opinion on fact or a rumour he read on the internet? Most of his statements come from rumours he uses to support his hatred for NVIDIA and love for the KyroII. The KyroII card is a great card but powervr2 should be able to say this without bashing NVIDIA every time.

 

[powervr2]

like that pdf... it was a rumour too...

 

[Mingon]

That pdf was an internal document for sales staff, it was not meant for external viewing ket over it powervr2. This sort of thing goes on all the time, you only have to look at intel to see a similar type of marketing. If you dont like an agressive sales policy then fair enough but dont keep using it as an argument against a company.

 

[Silverforce]

PowerVR: I think people here dont seem to be able to understand your point clear enough. So dont try to ram it down their throats if they wont accept it. If they want to pay more for less, let them.

nVidia, S3, Matrox, Trident, Tseng, ATI, 3dfx, STM, Permedia, Cirrus Logic.. etc.. they've all contributed to the graphics industry, and once upon a time they were held in high regards. nVidia had it's turn in the bright lights for the past few years, and they dont intend to give it up.. it doesnt make them evil. They are fighting for their survival.

 

[Archknight]

Regardless the pdf is for internal or not, it is still lame. Even for the other companys that does it.

Well even back in the days, speed is also superior to image quality. They claimed what good image can do if they can not play the game, but even now speed is still the king.

I think most of the members of this forum known what they want and what they needed for so either Kyro, ATI, Nvidia, Matrox...etc is good for them. As for the majority of the consumers, I doubt this is the case......
sad.