Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher recognition.

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: conjur

As for Dissipate and Genx87, why do you insist on your trolling/threadcrapping ways that you know the mods have been cracking down on lately? IMO, vacations should be issued but that's just my $0.02.

How are we trolling and thread crapping? You can always tell when someone is losing an argument when they want to shut the other person(s) up.

uh:

These luddite primitivists would have us all living in caves. I wasn't aware until now how truly radical conjur is. Not only a social democratic socialist but a luddite and a primitivist. Wow.


I wonder how his friendship with Dave works out. Afterall, Dave is in IT, a sector that is all about automation.

That's not trolling, threadcrapping, and outright personal attacks and even a callout all rolled into one?

You believe that automation eliminates jobs, and that CEOs are exploiting workers with technology. What else am I supposed to say? That you are a futurist and a technology advocate?? Pah-lese. If the shoe fits wear it, and don't get all hot and bothered when someone points out the fact that you ought to be wearing the shoe.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: Vic
Gots to toe the politically-brainwashed line here, eh? That's why P&N is such a wasteland now, you know. No dissenting opinions to the talking points of the extreme whacko angst-driven undergrad authoritarian left.

It is extremists on both sides of the aisle that make P&N so damn frustrating. I'll agree that those of us on the left are irritating, but the right wingers have extremism down to an art.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, automation can increase productivity as machines can run 24/7 with some maintenance and lower operating costs by reducing headcount (labor). But, again, the point goes sailing high over your head. We've seen the numbers of this "recovery" and the job gains aren't there (unless you throw in the greatly increasing size of our government) and neither are the workers' wages (and certainly not the benefits). The only ones benefiting in this "recovery" are the corporate execs and political campaign funds.

Conjur, while I agree that labor has become undervalued, I don't think automation is the biggest threat to working class America. It is outsourcing and "Wal-Martization". While initially automation has always eliminated a few jobs, there always seems to be some new job that comes along, whether related to the automation process or not, there is demand for labor. Where we are getting screwed is that now a large portion of our automated manufacturing is being done in other countries, completely taking us out of the loop.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: morrisbj

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, automation can increase productivity as machines can run 24/7 with some maintenance and lower operating costs by reducing headcount (labor). But, again, the point goes sailing high over your head. We've seen the numbers of this "recovery" and the job gains aren't there (unless you throw in the greatly increasing size of our government) and neither are the workers' wages (and certainly not the benefits). The only ones benefiting in this "recovery" are the corporate execs and political campaign funds.

Conjur, while I agree that labor has become undervalued, I don't think automation is the biggest threat to working class America. It is outsourcing and "Wal-Martization". While initially automation has always eliminated a few jobs, there always seems to be some new job that comes along, whether related to the automation process or not, there is demand for labor. Where we are getting screwed is that now a large portion of our automated manufacturing is being done in other countries, completely taking us out of the loop.

It's hard to ignore Mr. High-Horse Vic but I couldn't let his insinuation go without a response.

But, yes, I agree with you. I was just trying to get across that Vic was wrong in his insinuation that automation results in no job losses whatsoever. That's a ridiculous stance.

Automation is a boon to a corporation but it takes time for the lost jobs to reappear in another form somewhere else down the line. It's far from an immediate replacement.

The US is losing out in multiple ways, as you pointed out. That's something lost on those up here that keep wearing their rose-coloured glasses 24/7.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjurThe US unemployment rate is over 5%. Don't forget, the method is no longer the same and it does not account for the drop in the labor participation rate and does not reflect those working multiple part-time jobs with no benefits for economic reasons.

The unemployment rate is 5.0% as of november.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

You may want to provide us information on when they changed their participation rules. afaik the rules have been in place for a long time.

It's been posted before but I can't find it right now.

Also, one must take into account the aging of our population and how that affects the unemployment rate:
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2005/el2005-15.html


And, I'll note your ignoring of the Labor Participation Rate. Must be because you know you can't spin that one.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: morrisbj

Originally posted by: Vic
Gots to toe the politically-brainwashed line here, eh? That's why P&N is such a wasteland now, you know. No dissenting opinions to the talking points of the extreme whacko angst-driven undergrad authoritarian left.

It is extremists on both sides of the aisle that make P&N so damn frustrating. I'll agree that those of us on the left are irritating, but the right wingers have extremism down to an art.

There is more to politics that just "Left" and "Right." Far more. The vision of the political landscape of democrats on the left and republicans on the right is laughable in its oversimplification.
As to this extremism of the "right," I see it as no different than of the "left," it's just that the authoritarian left has no love of free speech or free thought.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjurThe US unemployment rate is over 5%. Don't forget, the method is no longer the same and it does not account for the drop in the labor participation rate and does not reflect those working multiple part-time jobs with no benefits for economic reasons.

The unemployment rate is 5.0% as of november.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

You may want to provide us information on when they changed their participation rules. afaik the rules have been in place for a long time.

It's been posted before but I can't find it right now.

Also, one must take into account the aging of our population and how that affects the unemployment rate:
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2005/el2005-15.html


And, I'll note your ignoring of the Labor Participation Rate. Must be because you know you can't spin that one.

Do you bother reading before replying?
I asked you to find me a link that shows the feds changing how they calculate unemployment rates and you come back with a study that compared demographics and unemployment rates?

Hello??????

I didnt ignore labor participation rate at all, it was the question I presented to you.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: conjurThe US unemployment rate is over 5%. Don't forget, the method is no longer the same and it does not account for the drop in the labor participation rate and does not reflect those working multiple part-time jobs with no benefits for economic reasons.

The unemployment rate is 5.0% as of november.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

You may want to provide us information on when they changed their participation rules. afaik the rules have been in place for a long time.

It's been posted before but I can't find it right now.

Also, one must take into account the aging of our population and how that affects the unemployment rate:
http://www.frbsf.org/publications/economics/letter/2005/el2005-15.html


And, I'll note your ignoring of the Labor Participation Rate. Must be because you know you can't spin that one.

Do you bother reading before replying?
I asked you to find me a link that shows the feds changing how they calculate unemployment rates and you come back with a study that compared demographics and unemployment rates?

Hello??????

I didnt ignore labor participation rate at all, it was the question I presented to you.

Do you? Doesn't look like it.

 

[Genx87]

Oh wow, that is an impressive display of zing right there.

Now run along and try to find us something that can add to the conversation.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Oh wow, that is an impressive display of zing right there.

Now I should run along since I can't add to the conversation.

Agreed.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: morrisbj

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, automation can increase productivity as machines can run 24/7 with some maintenance and lower operating costs by reducing headcount (labor). But, again, the point goes sailing high over your head. We've seen the numbers of this "recovery" and the job gains aren't there (unless you throw in the greatly increasing size of our government) and neither are the workers' wages (and certainly not the benefits). The only ones benefiting in this "recovery" are the corporate execs and political campaign funds.

Conjur, while I agree that labor has become undervalued, I don't think automation is the biggest threat to working class America. It is outsourcing and "Wal-Martization". While initially automation has always eliminated a few jobs, there always seems to be some new job that comes along, whether related to the automation process or not, there is demand for labor. Where we are getting screwed is that now a large portion of our automated manufacturing is being done in other countries, completely taking us out of the loop.

It's hard to ignore Mr. High-Horse Vic but I couldn't let his insinuation go without a response.

But, yes, I agree with you. I was just trying to get across that Vic was wrong in his insinuation that automation results in no job losses whatsoever. That's a ridiculous stance.

Automation is a boon to a corporation but it takes time for the lost jobs to reappear in another form somewhere else down the line. It's far from an immediate replacement.

The US is losing out in multiple ways, as you pointed out. That's something lost on those up here that keep wearing their rose-coloured glasses 24/7.

Actually, the replacement occurs prior to. For example, a company contracts for new software for increased automation. The software developers work to build the software prior to implementation and any subsequent job loss caused by automation. The engineers build the new robot before it gets into the factory.

Did I argue that automation "results in no job losses whatsoever"? No. I argued that automation creates a net jobs increase through increased production and efficiency. But obviously some people are going to lose their jobs and have to seek employment elsewhere. When the buggy-whip company becomes obsolete and goes out business, its workers need to find new jobs. Should we have never left the caves to build our mud huts?

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Really, if the US is losing out, it's because of populists like yourself. You have no clue what you're talking about, you just like to rabble-rouse.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Genx87

The unemployment rate is 5.0% as of november.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

You may want to provide us information on when they changed their participation rules. afaik the rules have been in place for a long time.

This somewhat answers it but doesn't go into details.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm

Also, Wikipedia notes:

Note: as of March 1st, 2005 unemployment statistics will be derived from three sources. These sources include the Current Population Survey, a statewide survey of businesses known as the Current Employment Statistics Survey, and state unemployment insurance claims.

You can bet whatever changes were made were purely beneficial to the administration's claims of a booming economy. One thing this administration has been about is "catapaulting the propaganda" and hiding the truth.

There are also articles stating that unemployment is understated by as much as 0.2% due to the increased number of prisoners in the US criminal system.

 

[Moonbeam]

The means of production will soon be too complex to maintain or design by humans. Moore's Law tells us that, our fabulous rush to productivity. The end of work arrives with the advent of intelligent machines. Prepare to live a life without productive meaning. The Zen master, however, may buy your tea cup, if you happen to be a pottery master.

Communism will look a lot better when you have infinite wealth and the machine looks at you and says, "Hey, What's in this for me?"

In our beautiful world you can be anything you want, provided it's something that makes you money. You trade the tick of your short wound clock for money, and do so with pride. For welfare you sell your life. What a deal.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: morrisbj

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, automation can increase productivity as machines can run 24/7 with some maintenance and lower operating costs by reducing headcount (labor). But, again, the point goes sailing high over your head. We've seen the numbers of this "recovery" and the job gains aren't there (unless you throw in the greatly increasing size of our government) and neither are the workers' wages (and certainly not the benefits). The only ones benefiting in this "recovery" are the corporate execs and political campaign funds.

Conjur, while I agree that labor has become undervalued, I don't think automation is the biggest threat to working class America. It is outsourcing and "Wal-Martization". While initially automation has always eliminated a few jobs, there always seems to be some new job that comes along, whether related to the automation process or not, there is demand for labor. Where we are getting screwed is that now a large portion of our automated manufacturing is being done in other countries, completely taking us out of the loop.

It's hard to ignore Mr. High-Horse Vic but I couldn't let his insinuation go without a response.

But, yes, I agree with you. I was just trying to get across that Vic was wrong in his insinuation that automation results in no job losses whatsoever. That's a ridiculous stance.

Automation is a boon to a corporation but it takes time for the lost jobs to reappear in another form somewhere else down the line. It's far from an immediate replacement.

The US is losing out in multiple ways, as you pointed out. That's something lost on those up here that keep wearing their rose-coloured glasses 24/7.

Actually, the replacement occurs prior to. For example, a company contracts for new software for increased automation. The software developers work to build the software prior to implementation and any subsequent job loss caused by automation. The engineers build the new robot before it gets into the factory.

Did I argue that automation "results in no job losses whatsoever"? No. I argued that automation creates a net jobs increase through increased production and efficiency. But obviously some people are going to lose their jobs and have to seek employment elsewhere. When the buggy-whip company becomes obsolete and goes out business, its workers need to find new jobs. <troll snipped>

You're assuming a helluva lot there. Those software developers and manufacturing jobs were already in place. They didn't appear after the automation removed jobs from the workforce. You're trying to engage in a bit of revisionism there. But, that's nothing new from you.

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Cars were made by hand long ago and only cost a couple hundred dollars. Your point?

Really, if the US is losing out, it's because of propagandist like myself. I have no clue what I'm talking about, I just like to rabble-rouse.

Agreed.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: Vic

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Hey, great--that car will cost next to nothing, but of course, nobody will have a job to be able to afford it (well, other than the CEOs and company presidents but I imagine that was the plan all along anyway)

Brilliant!!!

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Vic

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Hey, great--that car will cost next to nothing, but of course, nobody will have a job to be able to afford it (well, other than the CEOs and company presidents but I imagine that was the plan all along anyway)

Brilliant!!!

Another luddite has joined the fray. Looks like Conjur has a friend.

 

[morrisbj]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
The means of production will soon be too complex to maintain or design by humans. Moore's Law tells us that, our fabulous rush to productivity. The end of work arrives with the advent of intelligent machines. Prepare to live a life without productive meaning. The Zen master, however, may buy your tea cup, if you happen to be a pottery master.

Communism will look a lot better when you have infinite wealth and the machine looks at you and says, "Hey, What's in this for me?"

In our beautiful world you can be anything you want, provided it's something that makes you money. You trade the tick of your short wound clock for money, and do so with pride. For welfare you sell your life. What a deal.

Is there a special school you go to to learn how to talk like that???

Eschew obfuscation my friend.... eschew obfuscation

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
You're assuming a helluva lot there. Those software developers and manufacturing jobs were already in place. They didn't appear after the automation removed jobs from the workforce. You're trying to engage in a bit of revisionism there. But, that's nothing new from you.

Heh. Who's revising here? Those jobs wouldn't be "already in place" unless their product was being purchased. You are true luddite after all, aren't you? Now you're defending the jobs that destroy the jobs you were originally defending. Too funny.

Cars were made by hand long ago and only cost a couple hundred dollars. Your point?

This never happened. Way to lie. First, a couple hundred dollars in the early 1900's was a full year's wages. There is this called inflation, after all. And prior to Ford and the automated mass production line, cars cost several thousands of dollars and were out of reach to all but the very rich. Only automation brought the car within reach of the common people.

And oh, that last part... how witty! Can I give you a too?

:roll:

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Genx87

The unemployment rate is 5.0% as of november.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

You may want to provide us information on when they changed their participation rules. afaik the rules have been in place for a long time.

This somewhat answers it but doesn't go into details.

http://www.bls.gov/cps/cps_faq.htm

Also, Wikipedia notes:

Note: as of March 1st, 2005 unemployment statistics will be derived from three sources. These sources include the Current Population Survey, a statewide survey of businesses known as the Current Employment Statistics Survey, and state unemployment insurance claims.

You can bet whatever changes were made were purely beneficial to the administration's claims of a booming economy. One thing this administration has been about is "catapaulting the propaganda" and hiding the truth.

There are also articles stating that unemployment is understated by as much as 0.2% due to the increased number of prisoners in the US criminal system.

Thank you however your link only states a change was made in 1994 and afaik prisoners wont be considered unemployed since they arent actively looking for work.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur
You're assuming a helluva lot there. Those software developers and manufacturing jobs were already in place. They didn't appear after the automation removed jobs from the workforce. You're trying to engage in a bit of revisionism there. But, that's nothing new from you.

Heh. Who's revising here? Those jobs wouldn't be "already in place" unless their product was being purchased. You are true luddite after all, aren't you? Now you're defending the jobs that destroy the jobs you were originally defending. Too funny.

Cars were made by hand long ago and only cost a couple hundred dollars. Your point?

This never happened. Way to lie. First, a couple hundred dollars in the early 1900's was a full year's wages. There is this called inflation, after all. And prior to Ford and the automated mass production line, cars cost several thousands of dollars and were out of reach to all but the very rich. Only automation brought the car within reach of the common people.

And oh, that last part... how witty! Can I give you a too?

:roll:

It is truly amazing how far detached these luddites are from reality. The hilarious part is that they all drive cars and use computers that were manufactured using...

...DUM DUM DUM....

automation!

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: Vic

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Hey, great--that car will cost next to nothing, but of course, nobody will have a job to be able to afford it (well, other than the CEOs and company presidents but I imagine that was the plan all along anyway)

Brilliant!!!

I chose those examples with care. The automation of automobile manufacturing and of sawmills are both 100 and more years old, and yet both are still highly labor-intensive, employing millions.
You will, however, find this to be true in almost every industry. Automation creates jobs through productivity and growth.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur
You're assuming a helluva lot there. Those software developers and manufacturing jobs were already in place. They didn't appear after the automation removed jobs from the workforce. You're trying to engage in a bit of revisionism there. But, that's nothing new from you.

Heh. Who's revising here? Those jobs wouldn't be "already in place" unless their product was being purchased. You are true luddite after all, aren't you? Now you're defending the jobs that destroy the jobs you were originally defending. Too funny.

There you go again. You never tire, do you? No wonder you love this administration so much. You both enjoy employing circular logic.

Cars were made by hand long ago and only cost a couple hundred dollars. Your point?

This never happened. Way to lie. First, a couple hundred dollars in the early 1900's was a full year's wages. There is this called inflation, after all. And prior to Ford and the automated mass production line, cars cost several thousands of dollars and were out of reach to all but the very rich. Only automation brought the car within reach of the common people.

"Way to lie."

Uh...wtf? Where did I lie? Care to point that out to me?

But, I think you're catching on a bit. You see, I threw back at you what you were tossing out there: your posts are assuming WAY too much and ignoring other factors that come into play. I thought turnabout was fair play. Now, take that incisive critical thinking you just employed and apply it to your own posts and you'll approach a closer picture of reality.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: morrisbj

Originally posted by: conjur
Yes, automation can increase productivity as machines can run 24/7 with some maintenance and lower operating costs by reducing headcount (labor). But, again, the point goes sailing high over your head. We've seen the numbers of this "recovery" and the job gains aren't there (unless you throw in the greatly increasing size of our government) and neither are the workers' wages (and certainly not the benefits). The only ones benefiting in this "recovery" are the corporate execs and political campaign funds.

Conjur, while I agree that labor has become undervalued, I don't think automation is the biggest threat to working class America. It is outsourcing and "Wal-Martization". While initially automation has always eliminated a few jobs, there always seems to be some new job that comes along, whether related to the automation process or not, there is demand for labor. Where we are getting screwed is that now a large portion of our automated manufacturing is being done in other countries, completely taking us out of the loop.

It's hard to ignore Mr. High-Horse Vic but I couldn't let his insinuation go without a response.

But, yes, I agree with you. I was just trying to get across that Vic was wrong in his insinuation that automation results in no job losses whatsoever. That's a ridiculous stance.

Automation is a boon to a corporation but it takes time for the lost jobs to reappear in another form somewhere else down the line. It's far from an immediate replacement.

The US is losing out in multiple ways, as you pointed out. That's something lost on those up here that keep wearing their rose-coloured glasses 24/7.

Actually, the replacement occurs prior to. For example, a company contracts for new software for increased automation. The software developers work to build the software prior to implementation and any subsequent job loss caused by automation. The engineers build the new robot before it gets into the factory.

Did I argue that automation "results in no job losses whatsoever"? No. I argued that automation creates a net jobs increase through increased production and efficiency. But obviously some people are going to lose their jobs and have to seek employment elsewhere. When the buggy-whip company becomes obsolete and goes out business, its workers need to find new jobs. <troll snipped>

You're assuming a helluva lot there. Those software developers and manufacturing jobs were already in place. They didn't appear after the automation removed jobs from the workforce. You're trying to engage in a bit of revisionism there. But, that's nothing new from you.

Automation is a boon to everyone. How much would your car cost if every part were manufactured and assembled by hand? Your computer? How much more would your house cost if every board was hand-planed? Or there were no nail guns? Would you be willing to pay for these things, or would you just whine all the more about the evil corporations?

Cars were made by hand long ago and only cost a couple hundred dollars. Your point?

Really, if the US is losing out, it's because of propagandist like myself. I have no clue what I'm talking about, I just like to rabble-rouse.

Agreed.

I think there are a few points both you guys are missing. I agree with Vic, automation is a good thing, and should create more jobs, and more and better goods for consumers. Why? Because automation obviously increases effeciency. As a whole, the more efficient we use our energy and resources, the more goods we can obtain, and those goods should be of better quality.

Although, there are at least two barriers that can, and do, prevent these benefits of automation from happening, and I think these two things are what you two, conjur and vic, are ignoring, or missing. One, in order to increase the amount of jobs (or to at least maintain a healthy number of them), not only do companies have to better themselves, but employees, our work force, must be more educated and better skilled. Because the vast majority of jobs that automation can create are higher-skilled jobs that require higher-skilled and better-educated employees compared to what the automation itself took over. The automation should be doing the "dirty work," while human workers concentrate on things automation cannot yet do (and then in x point in time, moonbeam's words will come true).

Conjur is correct that automation is putting people out of work, but he is correct only because people have allowed technology to be more skilled than they are, and that is pathetic because computers are actually very stupid.

The other thing that prevents this natural process is government and corporate corruption in regards to allowing and/or creating unfair competition. The lack of healthy competition is a sword in the heart of capitalism, and certainly can and does decrease the benefits consumers and employees should be receiving via the efficiency of automation. I think we should all be fairly familiar with this.

 

[azazyel]

OK, now I am thinking that people here are reading what they want. I don't see where Conjure ever said automation is a bad thing. All I have read is that he has state the there are some job losses due to automation, which everyone seems to agree on. The scope of the loss is where the conflict arises. IMHO automation is a necessary evil and a minor evil at that. I think any innovation in our manufacturing base is a good thing. Where I see the problem is where the company doesn't automate and instead moves their production facilities to other countries where the process is the same but the cost of labor is drastically cheaper. As well, companies are able to skirt environmental laws that maybe in effect in the US that could add cost to the company in compliance.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: conjur
There you go again. You never tire, do you? No wonder you love this administration so much. You both enjoy employing circular logic.

The circular logic was your own. As to my "love" of "this administration," how conveniently you forget how I rallied the "Anybody But Bush" campaign last fall.

"Way to lie."

Uh...wtf? Where did I lie? Care to point that out to me?

That handbuilt cars ever cost a couple hundred dollars. Not even taking into account inflation (which you intentionally didn't), that never happened, as I pointed out.

But, I think you're catching on a bit. You see, I threw back at you what you were tossing out there: your posts are assuming WAY too much and ignoring other factors that come into play. I thought turnabout was fair play. Now, take that incisive critical thinking you just employed and apply it to your own posts and you'll approach a closer picture of reality.

Pal, you're so far away from reality it's not even funny.