Lance Armstrong Positif!

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Feb 10, 2000
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First of all, I must admit I'm a huge Lance fan - IMO his story is the greatest comeback in the history of sports, and the very idea that a nearly-terminal cancer patient could come back to be the fittest man alive is just amazing.

That said, the debacle at the 1998 TdF made it clear that doping is extremely common (and was at that time perhaps even universal) among pro cyclists.

It seems to me it's fairly likely Lance WAS doping, and these tests certainly look like evidence of that - even Jean Marie LeBlanc, the head of the TdF, says this was a good investigation, and that he's troubled by the results. Lance's work with Dr. Michele Ferrari is also disturbing in this regard (and inspired Greg LeMond to criticize Lance - I think Greg's comments were largely sour grapes, but Dr. Ferrari has long been associated with doping).

Even if Lance WAS doping, though (and we certainly don't know that at this point), I'm quite sure he wasn't doing anything that nearly everyone else wasn't.

The French press' near-obsession with this topic clearly relates to their nation's own lack of success in pro cycling in recent years, and now that Lance is retired, it's hard to see the point in their continuing to hound him. Note the way MLB has, by contrast, left Mark McGwire alone since his retirement, even though it now seems fairly clear he was juicing throughout his career (I was amazed by his appearance when he testified before Congress - he looked like a withered old man, presumably because he's stopped using steroids).
 

MaverikV

Member
Feb 10, 2004
146
0
0
That was supposed to be a 4 . . . nice to see some intelligent comments. You read that entire rant and the only thing that TWO people could think to do was call me out on that OBVIOUS stupidity I have tried to fool you all with? Check please.

But yeah, I'm from New York too. Yes, the only place I went was Paris. Believe me, it was enough. If New Yorkers treated the French like that when they came here they would be so mad they would make snooty faces at us. Ho-ho-ho!
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: nCred
Originally posted by: C'DaleRider
I find it odd that Armstrong, if this is actually correct, had access to something that would effectively hide the EPO use while the French national champion, Jalabert, was unable to access the same substance and was caught in, I believe, 2003.

Strange that Jalabert, four years after this supposed EPO use by Armstrong, was found positive for EPO use. Stranger still is the fact that while there had been a "substance" out there for years before he was caught and banned for two years from competition that would have effectively masked his use of EPO, he and his multi-million dollar French cycling team was unable to locate any of it. Guess the French are stupidier than anyone can imagine.

umm.. Because they couldnt detect EPO until year 2000.

*checks calendar*
Umm, FYI, it's '05.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,528
905
126
Originally posted by: DonVito
First of all, I must admit I'm a huge Lance fan - IMO his story is the greatest comeback in the history of sports, and the very idea that a nearly-terminal cancer patient could come back to be the fittest man alive is just amazing.

That said, the debacle at the 1998 TdF made it clear that doping is extremely common (and was at that time perhaps even universal) among pro cyclists.

It seems to me it's fairly likely Lance WAS doping, and these tests certainly look like evidence of that - even Jean Marie LeBlanc, the head of the TdF, says this was a good investigation, and that he's troubled by the results. Lance's work with Dr. Michele Ferrari is also disturbing in this regard (and inspired Greg LeMond to criticize Lance - I think Greg's comments were largely sour grapes, but Dr. Ferrari has long been associated with doping).

Even if Lance WAS doping, though (and we certainly don't know that at this point), I'm quite sure he wasn't doing anything that nearly everyone else wasn't.

The French press' near-obsession with this topic clearly relates to their nation's own lack of success in pro cycling in recent years, and now that Lance is retired, it's hard to see the point in their continuing to hound him. Note the way MLB has, by contrast, left Mark McGwire alone since his retirement, even though it now seems fairly clear he was juicing throughout his career (I was amazed by his appearance when he testified before Congress - he looked like a withered old man, presumably because he's stopped using steroids).

Isn't he gone from that post now? I heard on the radio this morning that he was removed from that position.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: bleeb
umm i think he needs to take hormones since he lost his testicles...
Nope. He's mentioned a few times that he actually has low testosterone.

By the way, EPO stimulates red blood cell production. It's not an anabolic hormone in the bodybuilding sense.
 

oboeguy

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 1999
3,907
0
76
Originally posted by: JulesMaximusIsn't he gone from that post now? I heard on the radio this morning that he was removed from that position.

I think he's retiring.
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: bleeb
umm i think he needs to take hormones since he lost his testicles...
Nope. He's mentioned a few times that he actually has low testosterone.

By the way, EPO stimulates red blood cell production. It's not an anabolic hormone in the bodybuilding sense.

Does this produce a similar result to "packing" blood?
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: Phoenix86
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: bleeb
umm i think he needs to take hormones since he lost his testicles...
Nope. He's mentioned a few times that he actually has low testosterone.

By the way, EPO stimulates red blood cell production. It's not an anabolic hormone in the bodybuilding sense.

Does this produce a similar result to "packing" blood?
If you're referring to "blood doping" where an athlete recieves an infusion of RBCs drawn earlier, then yes. Higher hematocrit = more oxygen-carrying ability = increased aerobic capacity.
 

Randum

Platinum Member
Jan 28, 2004
2,473
0
76
based on o2 intake, lance had an extremely high o2 intake even as a young cyclist, hes always had that capability, i highly doubt hes been cheating. theres no way in hell i will beleive it unless lance himself told me-what hes done has been too great
 

RbSX

Diamond Member
Jan 18, 2002
8,351
1
76
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
They don't hang around that long.

 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
I think they're pretty upset he retired before they could pin him. lol.

Too bad they don't have urine samples from 1903... :laugh:
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Fausto
If you're referring to "blood doping" where an athlete recieves an infusion of RBCs drawn earlier, then yes. Higher hematocrit = more oxygen-carrying ability = increased aerobic capacity.

*waves to Fausto*
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
They don't hang around that long.
i believe he has to take them for life.

 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
They don't hang around that long.
i believe he has to take them for life.
Not that I'm aware. Link?

 

boyRacer

Lifer
Oct 1, 2001
18,569
0
0
Originally posted by: Ranger X
The French are just mad that an American is whooping their asses on their own home soil.

L'Equipe , whose parent company is closely linked to the Tour, has frequently raised questions about how Armstrong could have made his spectacular comeback from testicular cancer without using performance enhancers. L'Equipe is owned by the Amaury Group whose subsidiary, Amaury Sport Organization, organizes the Tour de France and other sporting events.

A former L'Equipe journalist, Pierre Ballester, was co-author of a book published last year that contained doping allegations against Armstrong. Ballester teamed up with award-winning Sunday Times sportswriter David Walsh.

Maybe...
 
Feb 10, 2000
30,029
66
91
Originally posted by: Phoenix86


Does this produce a similar result to "packing" blood?

Yeah, EPO essentially has the same effect. In the days before they had developed accurate testing for EPO, they would test for hematocrit (i.e., the percentage of RBCs in one's blood), and not let riders with too-high hematocrit race, for safety reasons. If your hematocrit gets too high, your blood literally becomes thicker, and this decreased viscosity has led to fatal heart attacks.
 

moshquerade

No Lifer
Nov 1, 2001
61,504
12
56
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
They don't hang around that long.
i believe he has to take them for life.
Not that I'm aware. Link?
well you may know more, but i was thinking that when a woman has a hysterectomy,(female hormone producing parts removed), she has to be on replacement hormones indefinitely.
wouldn't that follow for him?

 

UbiSunt

Senior member
Oct 1, 2004
516
0
0
The fact is that everyone who can actually compete in the Tour, are dopers. The issue shoud not be whether or not Lance is using, it should be why everyone uses. This is akin to holding a Senate investigation into the use of steroids in the bodybuilding culture.

Lance doping does not change my opinion in any way that he is a badass. There is no unfair advantage when EVERYONE is on EPO and other drugs.
 

Fausto

Elite Member
Nov 29, 2000
26,521
2
0
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: Fausto
Originally posted by: RyanSengara
Originally posted by: timelapse
Link (In French)

Just out in French sports news...

Basically says new tests on his blood samples from 1999 (the first he won), obtained after six different stages, test positive for a synthetic hormone...

Let's see if fox or cnn get a hang on this.

He admitted he would test positive because of the hormones he took while battling cancer.
They don't hang around that long.
i believe he has to take them for life.
Not that I'm aware. Link?
well you may know more, but i was thinking that when a woman has a hysterectomy,(female hormone producing parts removed), she has to be on replacement hormones indefinitely.
wouldn't that follow for him?
No, because he still has one testicle which should pick up the slack for the most part.

Like I said, he has chronic low testosterone because of this and because any supplementation to correct this would show up as a positive dope test.

 
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