Land Rover Vs Motorbikes in NYC

[Dari]

lien's father in law is chief of police. That's the only reason this poor road mannered schmuck is getting this attention, including prosecuting the bikers. Shit I didn't even see 11 bikers involved in the attack.. They're just trying to make a statement.

Anyone see the video of the sport bikers that got pulled over and the cop even said, orders came down from chief to make motorcyclist's lives hell.


Ridiculous. All because lien wasn't paying any attention to his surroundings, put himself in a dangerous situation, then mowed over innocents on his way out.

Again....... Legally, the bikers are at fault. But lien set himself and his family up for this attack. Anyone who thinks his piss poor driving is acceptable needs to go take some drivers training classes.

If true it makes perfect sense because even the police would never sacrifice their own unless someone more important was at stake. With so many unions in the police department (sergeants, detectives, commanders, etc...) these guys know how to take care of each other. But, you're right. He made some poor decisions and will pay for it in other ways. Lien could've easily died that day. The one place I could see that happening was when they were stopped on the highway at the red light. He stupidly left his door open. If another car was in front of him he would have been done because it was either hitting the car in front of him, or going backwards into the crowd of bikes and possibly falling off the cliff.

 

[Puppies04]

If true it makes perfect sense because even the police would never sacrifice their own unless someone more important was at stake. With so many unions in the police department (sergeants, detectives, commanders, etc...) these guys know how to take care of each other. But, you're right. He made some poor decisions and will pay for it in other ways. Lien could've easily died that day. The one place I could see that happening was when they were stopped on the highway at the red light. He stupidly left his door open. If another car was in front of him he would have been done because it was either hitting the car in front of him, or going backwards into the crowd of bikes and possibly falling off the cliff.

Are you still talking? Seriously STFU it is beyond embarrassing now.

 

[jaedaliu]

Rosalyn Ng's father is Raymond Kelly? Very interesting.

 

[Dari]

Are you still talking? Seriously STFU it is beyond embarrassing now.

How cute. I wonder what you really look like.

 

[Number1]

lien's father in law is chief of police. That's the only reason this poor road mannered schmuck is getting this attention, including prosecuting the bikers. Shit I didn't even see 11 bikers involved in the attack.. They're just trying to make a statement.

Anyone see the video of the sport bikers that got pulled over and the cop even said, orders came down from chief to make motorcyclist's lives hell.


Ridiculous. All because lien wasn't paying any attention to his surroundings, put himself in a dangerous situation, then mowed over innocents on his way out.

Again....... Legally, the bikers are at fault. But lien set himself and his family up for this attack. Anyone who thinks his piss poor driving is acceptable needs to go take some drivers training classes.

Anyone who think it's acceptable for a gang of bikers to start slashing tires over a minor fender bender or because somebody's driving is not up to their standard out to get his head examined.

 

[Dari]

Anyone who think it's acceptable for a gang of bikers to start slashing tires over a minor fender bender or because somebody's driving is not up to their standard out to get his head examined.

No one here is saying that. It's amazing how people cannot understand the nuances of the English language or the actions of others. Everything is not black or white. There are shades of grey. No one is perfect, even when we are doing heroic things. I think many people have been watching too many Hollywood movies.

 

[CZroe]

lien's father in law is chief of police. That's the only reason this poor road mannered schmuck is getting this attention, including prosecuting the bikers. Shit I didn't even see 11 bikers involved in the attack.. They're just trying to make a statement.

Yeah. It can't have anything to do with the video going viral.

 

[Ichinisan]

If you're really that afraid of others after an accident then you're better off staying home. If you can't handle people screaming and yelling at you then you've obviously never been in the military or had a real, high-pressure job. It happens. Deal with it. I saw one confrontation in that video before Lien drove over the other motorists. That would've been the confrontation to deal with.

Don't know what else to say here. It's obvious that many people have not been in such situations. I have. In New York people chew each other out all the time. Right in your face. You deal with it and let them vent. You don't exacerbate it. At least I wouldn't. A public fight is not my thing. No different from a cat fight IMHO.

People were slashing his tires and damaging his vehicle before he ran over anyone. I guess they were just going to stop attacking when he opens his door or window.

 

[Don Vito Corleone]

It appears as though Dari is debating with 3-4 specific people who are loudly associating themselves with lien and his terrible driving.

They see themselves in lien, likely a former bullied kid, a terrible driver probably known for bumping into things, who decided he was going to extricate himself from a situation he placed himself in by mowing down innocent people in his SUV.

If you have issues figuring out simple road rules and are unable to see lien's issues then please, sign yourself up for some drivers training before you hurt someone or get yourself into a similar situation.

The only reason lien is portrayed the way he is by the media is due to his FIL chief of police. Otherwise he would be just another terrible driver bumping into things, and forced to take defensive driving classes.

You are the king of making rash, unjustified leaps of "logic" when it comes to critiquing the behavior of others. In this case it's led you to say many catastrophically stupid things and blame the victim of a violent assault for having the temerity to try to protect his family.

By the way, how is it that Chief of Police Ray Kelly (who you're saying is Lien's father in law) has an Asian daughter with the last name Ng? What exactly is your source for that?

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Anyone who think it's acceptable for a gang of bikers to start slashing tires over a minor fender bender or because somebody's driving is not up to their standard out to get his head examined.

A similar scenario... It's perfectly legal to walk through a poor drug laden ghetto waving $100 bills all around in the air. You have a right to do that and not be bothered.

But, when that person gets robbed, who is at moral fault here? Legally, understand that this person is not in any way culpable. But morally.... ethically.... He "initiated" the situation.

That's what happened with lien. Legally he is in the clear, but he should've given these bikers more room considering all that was going on, he should not have been following so close, and MOST of all he should've been paying attention to what was going on around him and driving defensively.

Yes.. Legally.... the bikers should not have retaliated. But, if lien had even a modicum of driving sense he wouldn't have initiated which means the retaliations wouldn't have happened.



Like I said... you pull these mouth breathing stunts when your family isn't in the car. It's completely irresponsible of lien be intimidating these bikers with his child in the backseat.

 

[Dari]

People were slashing his tires and damaging his vehicle before he ran over anyone. I guess they were just going to stop attacking when he opens his door or window.

Most likely. You know, the responses here don't seem all that surprising to me. Everyone today live like they're in a bubble. They're just walking silos. Walking with their heads down looking at their mobile phone. Or in the subway not paying attention to anything. When someone communicates with them they seem taken aback, even flustered that someone would dare to take them out of their bubble. I can only imagine what kind of response an angry person who bring about. If there is an incident and you don't want to deal with that person because you're uncomfortable with coming out of your bubble, no matter how angry they are, then you're just setting yourself up for failure down the road. Best thing to do is bring down your window and communicate.

If anyone has ever been in a fight where they are outnumbered they know the only way out is psychology. Focus on one guy and make him focus on you. Like it's just the two of you. Make him think no one has his back. Then you deal with him and him only. The others will wait to see what happens before joining in. If you savage him they will back off. If you're a pussy, they will join in. All Lien had to do was focus on one and talk him down. The others would have backed off. Instead, he fled and, like clockwork, they followed. Of course, he'd just ran over their buddies but, still, he fled.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

People were slashing his tires and damaging his vehicle before he ran over anyone. I guess they were just going to stop attacking when he opens his door or window.

He rear ended the biker before anything else happened.

These bikers didn't just decide to randomly target some range rover. lien's terrible driving could've killed someone. The fact that he was driving like an inattentive idiot enough to rear end a motorcycle in the middle of a huge group of bikes speaks a lot towards his mentality.

I don't support them slashing his tires after he rear-ended someone, but I definitely can understand why they did it. Doesn't make it right, or legal, but it's possible to rationalize their behaviour.


lien's inattentive driving was the impetus for this entire situation. It doesn't justify their reaction, but it was still the spark which ignited the flame.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

Correction, influential state trooper, not chief of police.

Here's the video of a cop saying the orders came from above. If lien wasn't inside that thin blue line we wouldn't even be hearing about it anymore.


http://www.ibtimes.com/nyc-biker-ga...ate-trooper-uncle-who-ordered-biker-crackdown

 

[Dari]

You are the king of making rash, unjustified leaps of "logic" when it comes to critiquing the behavior of others. In this case it's led you to say many catastrophically stupid things and blame the victim of a violent assault for having the temerity to try to protect his family.
By the way, how is it that Chief of Police Ray Kelly (who you're saying is Lien's father in law) has an Asian daughter with the last name Ng? What exactly is your source for that?

He may have protected his family in the short-run. But he put them in far more danger in the long run. When Lien stopped at the first red light on the highway and the bikers pulled his door open, he could've made a major mistake and they'd all be dead. Similarly, he was beaten to a pulp and could easily been killed had it not been for other bikers or neighbors. Lien over-reacted and was not thinking long-term.

 

[jaedaliu]

He rear ended the biker before anything else happened.

These bikers didn't just decide to randomly target some range rover. lien's terrible driving could've killed someone. The fact that he was driving like an inattentive idiot enough to rear end a motorcycle in the middle of a huge group of bikes speaks a lot towards his mentality.

I don't support them slashing his tires after he rear-ended someone, but I definitely can understand why they did it. Doesn't make it right, or legal, but it's possible to rationalize their behaviour.


lien's inattentive driving was the impetus for this entire situation. It doesn't justify their reaction, but it was still the spark which ignited the flame.

I counter your impetus argument with the action that occurred prior to him striking a motorcycle. The motorcycle stopped on the highway. THAT was the impetus of everything happening. If the motorcycle didn't, none of this would have happened.

Btw, what's your source on Rosalyn Ng's father being Raymond Kelly?

 

[ch33zw1z]

He may have protected his family in the short-run. But he put them in far more danger in the long run. When Lien stopped at the first red light on the highway and the bikers pulled his door open, he could've made a major mistake and they'd all be dead. Similarly, he was beaten to a pulp and could easily been killed had it not been for other bikers or neighbors. Lien over-reacted and was not thinking long-term.

Since we're using 20/20 hindsight and hypothetical situations: it's very possible that if he didn't drive away, he may have been murdered right there where the original altercation occurred. So could his wife and kid. Fight or flight, Lien chose one.

 

[jaedaliu]

Most likely. You know, the responses here don't seem all that surprising to me. Everyone today live like they're in a bubble. They're just walking silos. Walking with their heads down looking at their mobile phone. Or in the subway not paying attention to anything. When someone communicates with them they seem taken aback, even flustered that someone would dare to take them out of their bubble. I can only imagine what kind of response an angry person who bring about. If there is an incident and you don't want to deal with that person because you're uncomfortable with coming out of your bubble, no matter how angry they are, then you're just setting yourself up for failure down the road. Best thing to do is bring down your window and communicate.

If anyone has ever been in a fight where they are outnumbered they know the only way out is psychology. Focus on one guy and make him focus on you. Like it's just the two of you. Make him think no one has his back. Then you deal with him and him only. The others will wait to see what happens before joining in. If you savage him they will back off. If you're a pussy, they will join in. All Lien had to do was focus on one and talk him down. The others would have backed off. Instead, he fled and, like clockwork, they followed. Of course, he'd just ran over their buddies but, still, he fled.

Maybe Lien doesn't have your situational awareness and dominance skills. I sure as hell don't. If I get in a gang fight, I know I'm dead. There's no way in hell I'm going to be able to dominate 1 guy before his 4 friends hurt me badly from behind. I believe Lien did the right thing by trying to get away.

I think the problem that we all have is that you're too badass for us to understand. I've never been stopped by motorcycle gangs on the highway before, but If I recall correctly, you stated in this thread that you have multiple times. I feel like your life is so different from mine, that we can't see eye to eye on things.

 

[TechBoyJK]

He may have protected his family in the short-run. But he put them in far more danger in the long run. When Lien stopped at the first red light on the highway and the bikers pulled his door open, he could've made a major mistake and they'd all be dead. Similarly, he was beaten to a pulp and could easily been killed had it not been for other bikers or neighbors. Lien over-reacted and was not thinking long-term.

lollerskates

 

[Dari]

Maybe Lien doesn't have your situational awareness and dominance skills. I sure as hell don't. If I get in a gang fight, I know I'm dead. There's no way in hell I'm going to be able to dominate 1 guy before his 4 friends hurt me badly from behind. I believe Lien did the right thing by trying to get away.

I think the problem that we all have is that you're too badass for us to understand. I've never been stopped by motorcycle gangs on the highway before, but If I recall correctly, you stated in this thread that you have multiple times. I feel like your life is so different from mine, that we can't see eye to eye on things.

I'm no badass. Just try to avoid situations like these. It's simply not worth it. Motorcycles are expensive toys and Carbon Black is hard to replace at BMW of Manhattan. And the incidents I was involved in were not on any highways. They were on Fulton Street in Brooklyn and Lexington Avenue in Spanish Harlem. Fulton is wide but Lexington is very very narrow and these guys turn a regular sunday drive into a huge event. I just ask if I can leave and they skidaddle. Then I either take 2nd Avenue or Park. No fuss no muss. But this usually happens on the PR Day Parade, Dominican Day Parade, or West Indies Day. I've learned to avoid going uptown or Brooklyn on those days.

EDIT: And no one jumps into a fight if they think they're going to get hurt, unless they're drunk. They let the leader take the lead. Then they just watch.

 

[PliotronX]

Nevermind the legality of it, okay for a second lets forget how in the wrong the bikers were. I have heard of cases where maintaining a state of calm in the face of adversity can have positive results. For example my mother had a friend growing up who was in the process of being sexually assaulted by three guys but because she did not fight and kick and scream and she continued speaking as if nothing was going on, there was no game for them so they gave up. While it would not go down like that every time, through this single occurrence I can visualize what you are saying. Normally animals cannot be reasoned with but apparently some of the bikers were (unfortunately) family men who may have a chord that can be struck. That is where I can see your point Dari. There is no way to fight a group of animals with nothing but your fists (despite Ip Man's capability). Picking that one guy and trying to explain to him that you are in fear of your family's safety may (just) have triggered a tiny bit of empathy. That is just what they wanted, control, absolute control of this man and his family. What they would do with this control would be up to their conscience (which is likely thin). It is by chance that Lien's fight or flight response reacted poorly with operators of two wheel vehicles thinking their bodies and vehicles carried a greater mass than a Land Rover.

The only way I see Mieses as a victim however, is of his own stupidity.

SpatiallyAware is just wrong.

 

[Dari]

Since we're using 20/20 hindsight and hypothetical situations: it's very possible that if he didn't drive away, he may have been murdered right there where the original altercation occurred. So could his wife and kid. Fight or flight, Lien chose one.

Not plausible. There may have been a mob but there was no mob mentality going on. Many were just watching. That situation could've easily been deflated had Lien acted in a mature manner since the bikers sure as fuck weren't.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Not plausible. There may have been a mob but there was no mob mentality going on. Many were just watching. That situation could've easily been deflated had Lien acted in a mature manner since the bikers sure as fuck weren't.

Completely plausible, regardless of your decision to admit it or not. His car was already being attacked, and any exit routes we're blocked by bikers. His car was surrounded, and it was being attacked. The aggressors forced the flight or fight response, which directly resulted in him running over the aggressors.

You cannot deny my hypothetical just because you don't agree with it.

 

[Dari]

Nevermind the legality of it, okay for a second lets forget how in the wrong the bikers were. I have heard of cases where maintaining a state of calm in the face of adversity can have positive results. For example my mother had a friend growing up who was in the process of being sexually assaulted by three guys but because she did not fight and kick and scream and she continued speaking as if nothing was going on, there was no game for them so they gave up. While it would not go down like that every time, through this single occurrence I can visualize what you are saying. Normally animals cannot be reasoned with but apparently some of the bikers were (unfortunately) family men who may have a chord that can be struck. That is where I can see your point Dari. There is no way to fight a group of animals with nothing but your fists (despite Ip Man's capability). Picking that one guy and trying to explain to him that you are in fear of your family's safety may (just) have triggered a tiny bit of empathy. That is just what they wanted, control, absolute control of this man and his family. What they would do with this control would be up to their conscience (which is likely thin). It is by chance that Lien's fight or flight response reacted poorly with operators of two wheel vehicles thinking their bodies and vehicles carried a greater mass than a Land Rover.

The only way I see Mieses as a victim however, is of his own stupidity.

SpatiallyAware is just wrong.

Correct. If Lien had apologized and sad "Yes, you're right." "My bad." "You're correct." "It's all my fault." "I was stupid." Then, as you say, they would've felt they had the upper hand while secretly being manipulated by Lien. But one guy (biker) was angry and another reacted with indifference and fear. I think the biker just wanted acknowledgement. Like I said earlier, bikes are expensive toys and it might take some change to fix it up after being hit. Having the person who hit the bike showing indifference would make things much worse than it should've been.

 

[Dari]

Completely plausible, regardless of your decision to admit it or not. His car was already being attacked, and any exit routes we're blocked by bikers. His car was surrounded, and it was being attacked. The aggressors forced the flight or fight response, which directly resulted in him running over the aggressors.

You cannot deny my hypothetical just because you don't agree with it.

So what if you're right? It's a car. It can take the hits. The scratches. The punctures (assuming he had runflats). That doesn't mean you should over-react. A car getting damaged and a bike getting damaged are two completely different things.

 

[ch33zw1z]

So what if you're right? It's a car. It can take the hits. The scratches. The punctures (assuming he had runflats). That doesn't mean you should over-react. A car getting damaged and a bike getting damaged are two completely different things.

Lien wasn't worried about his car.