Laptop owners: Hot freakin deal to recover a laptop should it be stolen.

[Frykun]

Normally I'd let it go, but I just HAVE to answer this time.

First thing you should keep in mind is that the thief is dumb enough to fall for these cheap tricks, (s)he deserves to be caught.
Now then... the firewall WILL stop any attempts to send email (assuming the firewall is set up to block those specifically), so if the laptop is connected though one, the thief just has to remove this program or change the settings as said earlier, and then they can do whatever they want.
As for the speed remark, the firewall doesn't care how soon or how late you try to send email - it'll block it either way. At this point the settings are easily changed (duh)
As far as formatting, most utilities don't touch some parts of the hard disk - that's most likely where the stuff gets stored. However, if this software has the ability to access and install/deinstall itself, other pieces of software should be able to do the same - somebody would have to reverse-engineer this software and write some code, but it's doable (and has been done before).

Originally posted by: ALAVergas


From the review link above, posted so you could read it and learn about the product without asking redundant questions:

"PC PhoneHome is available in three versions. PC PhoneHome Lite is a free application that sends stealth e-mails, but unlike the paid versions, it can be removed from the hard drive by running simple format, low-level format or FDISK procedure disk-formatting utilities.

PC PhoneHome Pro, which we tested, is appropriate for individuals or small installations. Unlike the Lite version, it can withstand disk-formatting procedures."

So yes, it can survive low-level formats.

I'll leave the firewall question to someone who understands it better, I know it well enough to understand its not a problem but probably not well enough for a thurough explanation.

As for the SMTP, it sends a message within 30 seconds if an active net connection is present, faster than you could change it. SMTP is something only the most experienced computer tech would know about, and only a VERY bold one would go and manipulate manually. The registry is not something to toy with on your system just to see what happens. If there's a different way to manipulate SMTP outside of regedit I don't know of it.

 

[dethman]

if a thief steals your laptop i doubt he'd hop onto aol and chat with his friends anyway. if i were to steal a laptop i'd just sell it immediately.

 

[CrimsonKing]

What happens the other 9999 times out of 10,000 when my laptop is in use by me? Do I get a couple emails each day that I just ignore?

And I'd think if some shmoe steals the laptop, he's not going to go looking for anti-theft systems right away anyhow. Wherever he pawns it isn't going to do a low-level format. And the person who gets it from the pawn shop will probably boot it up at least once before reformatting. And how likely is it that someone who buys a PC in a pawn shop will know to do a low-level format?

I'd say it's got a decent chance of making it. But this GPS thing has caught my attention. I've never heard of that. Sounds like a good investment if you've got a nice laptop.

 

[Doomer]

This is simply bunk. Knowing the IP address that your laptop is connecting from does you very little good. You can't call 911 and give them the IP address and expect a SWAT team to go break down a door.

Amen.

Don't believe for a minute that the cops give a rats behind weather or not you get your laptop back. Their only obligation is to file a report. Even if you could pinpoint the location, it would take a year of slogging through the courts to get a search warrant, etc. By that time your lappy would be long gone.

Snake oil.

 

[DrPizza]

I agree with Doomer... You may locate it, but it'll be tough getting it back.

Very knowledgeable computer users can get around the software with no problem (especially if they are looking for it).

I tend to believe (but haven't verified by looking at the statistics) that the average laptop theft is by an opportunist looking to make a quick buck, not by an experienced computer user. Crackhead steals laptop... crackhead sells laptop to the first person willing to pay whatever the crackhead wants for it... person goes home and connects to the internet... You get the IP address.... you lose hours/days of work time while going through red tape to try to get your laptop back; the police need enough evidence for a warrant. Good luck.

The other devices that can be installed in the laptop seem really good, such as the devices that won't let the laptop be carried for more than a certain distance before an alarm sounds. But, that depends on the user dilligently changing the settings for whatever situation.

 

[mattcham]

Even with this software, it will cost you plenty of time (time is money) going through hurdles to get your laptop back. Might be cheaper to buy a new laptop.

By the time you get your laptop, if at all, it would have depreciated to worthlessness. Besides, the thief will probably erase all your data, which may be precious to you, but worthless to the thief.

Great concept though...

 

[cerebusPu]

Im interested in the $120 GPS laptop tracking thing you were talking about. please post more information about that.

 

[Sneezer]

Do a Google search on this. I ran across some interesting reading regarding scams, international security services, and the RSA, among others. Reference Codex, Inc. as well. It also appears that this program sends an email regardless who has the laptop. Makes no difference if it has been stolen or not.

 

[erickotz]

Originally posted by: ALAVergas

Originally posted by: dp004i
Wouldn't a firewall render this thing useless? Also, I highly doubt it can survive a low-level format, unless they somehow stick it in BIOS itself.

From the review link above, posted so you could read it and learn about the product without asking redundant questions:

"PC PhoneHome is available in three versions. PC PhoneHome Lite is a free application that sends stealth e-mails, but unlike the paid versions, it can be removed from the hard drive by running simple format, low-level format or FDISK procedure disk-formatting utilities.

PC PhoneHome Pro, which we tested, is appropriate for individuals or small installations. Unlike the Lite version, it can withstand disk-formatting procedures."

So yes, it can survive low-level formats.

I'll leave the firewall question to someone who understands it better, I know it well enough to understand its not a problem but probably not well enough for a thurough explanation.

As for the SMTP, it sends a message within 30 seconds if an active net connection is present, faster than you could change it. SMTP is something only the most experienced computer tech would know about, and only a VERY bold one would go and manipulate manually. The registry is not something to toy with on your system just to see what happens. If there's a different way to manipulate SMTP outside of regedit I don't know of it.

OK, few things:
1.(high level) Format != Low level format . I would be outright astounded if this could survive a low-level format (or a write zero's to drive-the closest thing most IDE drives have today). I'm betting this thing sticks itself in the boot sector, but I'm curious how it interfaces to windows.
2. Do you know what an SMTP server is? They are the servers you use to send outgoing email. EVERY standard email program lets you change the smtp settings through their settings.
3. If it uses an SMTP server like implied above, this is a bad thing. SMTP servers generally only accept connections from peoples on certain IP's (to prevent them from being used as a SPAM relay) so if the thief uses a different ISP than your own to get online, this won't work.

As to the harddrive password locking, most laptops have this nowadays. This is part of the ATA spec. You can get the password using a logic analyzer, but that's definatly not an easy task.

I'm going to second the poster claiming this program is more or less snake oil. That said, I may give this company a call and try and get a review copy. If I get one I'll post exactly what it does, and see exactly what it can withstand.

I'm just curious how it hooks into windows.

 

[dp004i]

Hmmm, could this be an advertisement? Just looks at the way ALAVergas describes it, and how he gets rather nasty as soon as I mention some potential weaknesses

 

[ALAVergas]

Originally posted by: cerebusPu
Im interested in the $120 GPS laptop tracking thing you were talking about. please post more information about that.

I work ITS for student work for one of the largest public universities in the US. They have a MAMMOTH problem with theft of tech related items (one summer 18 LCD projectors were stolen from classrooms across campus). To combat it our senior repair tech bought a couple thousand (literally) of these GPS units that you can install in electronic devices to track it. Each one has a unique ID, and you can log onto a website to track where each one is. You set permiters for where they can travel, and if they leave the permiter it uses GSM cell band to literally call out its location. Most police departments are capable of tracking it just like somone who calls 911 from a cell phone. Since I work for the university I got it installed for the cost of the hardware alone, and got them to agree to track it for me as long as I own the notebook. Beyond the general functioning of it I don't know dirt about how it works or how it installed into my laptop.

And the only thing that sucks about this forum is the arrogant attitude of the senior members. Half of you didn't even bother to read about the product before commenting on it, and the ones that really flamed it didn't even download the free version and test it before popping off their mouths. I would hope its an internet only thing, and you have higheer integrity than that in the real world.

/end soapbox

On a sidenote, I'm surprised at the lack of bilingual (english/spanish) on the board...

 

[fornax]

cmetz, these are all good points, but what good are they once the laptop has been stolen? The thief (and most thefts are crimes of opportunity -- the thief saw an unattened laptop in the library/airport/cafe, etc. and grabbed it) will have hard time fencing it, yes, but your laptop is gone! Maybe you have to put a big orange label: WARNING! THIS LAPTOP CAN BE OPERATED BY OWNER ONLY, etc Just use the old cable lock with motion alarm.

 

[Doomer]

ALAVergas, any time a new member starts singing the praises of a particular product or service it throws up a red flag for most of us. There are far too many sleezeballs out there peddling their own products, websites, etc. in underhanded ways like posting in forums like this one. That may not be true in your case but the circumstances do leave you suspect. You'll find, also, that a bad attitude will either get you banned or mercilessly flamed. I suggest you lighten up.

 

[ALAVergas]

Here's a second and similar software tool:

Classilinkification

FAQ covers aspects of formatting and firewalls, citing neither one as a problem. High level of customer satisfaction from large institutions supposedly on the website.

Downside: More expensive, have to pay more after 1 year to continue service.

Upside: Can remotely remove sensitive data from a stolen computer.

Q. Can ComputracePlus be removed?
A. The Computrace Agent, which powers the ComputracePlus service, is a low-level utility that is as tamper-resistant as a disk-based utility can be. The Agent cannot be erased off the hard drive by deleting files because it is not visible in file directories. The Agent can survive a hard drive re-format, F-disk command and hard drive re-partitioning. It is the only program on the computer tracking market that can survive such attempts at removing it. The Agent can be removed by an authorized user with the correct password and installation software.

Q. Can ComputracePlus work through firewalls to reach the Internet?
A. Yes. When configured properly, the Computrace Agent will use any active IP connection to reach the Internet through firewalls and proxies.

 

[DerProfi]

Originally posted by: soltrainMac address is unique to your ethernet card. It a the 16bit (?) hexadecimal code hardwired into the chip itself. The MAC address is fundamental for the basics of networking.

See SMAC for an extremely easy way to modify the MAC address of almost any NIC card under Win2K/XP.

IMHO as an IT exec with a staff supporting infrastructure for ~4000 laptop users, good luck ever getting back a stolen laptop. Sure, we always go through the motions of filling out a police report for insurance purposes, but no one (even the cops) ever expects to recover anything. If you're not capable of physically securing your laptop in the first place, then the best you can hope to do is protect your data by:
- encrypting your hard drive, either with one of the hardware solutions available or with software like SafeGuard Easy or Pointsec
- backing up your important data on a regular basis

Just as an FYI, Kensington locks are the biggest PC security scam going. I've seen my techs completely remove them in under 5 seconds with basic tools and without damaging the laptop.

 

[ReiAyanami]

and then you find out your laptop is logging on from the middle of russian

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Rufio

Originally posted by: ALAVergas

Originally posted by: dp004i

As for the SMTP, it sends a message within 30 seconds if an active net connection is present, faster than you could change it. SMTP is something only the most experienced computer tech would know about, and only a VERY bold one would go and manipulate manually. The registry is not something to toy with on your system just to see what happens. If there's a different way to manipulate SMTP outside of regedit I don't know of it.

never underestimate a determined thief or hacker...

If this gets popular, expect notebook thieves to simply toss the HD and put in a brand new one . . .

However, it is better than "nothing" . . .

Personally, I'd go for the "free" version to catch the "casual" thief . . . locating the IP address is no guarantee you'll get your notebook back.

Now if they ever make a notebook with a remote control explosive device - to destroy the HD and make the laptop useless - I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[Gilby]

Well, he's getting something for hyping this program, that's for sure. Here's a clue, knowing something about how hardware and software works in general, say, for instance, how hard drives work, gives many of these posters the ability to come off a whole lot more credible than you, ALAVergas. Of course, you going on with an ad hominum attack finished the job of destroying your credibility far more than any post from anyone else did. Just a free tip.

 

[ALAVergas]

Originally posted by: Gilby
Well, he's getting something for hyping this program, that's for sure. Here's a clue, knowing something about how hardware and software works in general, say, for instance, how hard drives work, gives many of these posters the ability to come off a whole lot more credible than you, ALAVergas. Of course, you going on with an ad hominum attack finished the job of destroying your credibility far more than any post from anyone else did. Just a free tip.

Yeah since I obviously also work for Dell, Target, Walmart, and ThinkGeek.com, and last but not least The United States Government. Big Brother is watching your ignorant, bigoted pie hole.

I wish I did know more about hardware and software, and that instead of flaming it someone with that knowledge would use the free evaluation to rate the product. It would be nice to know it sucks before it ships so I can save myself the $29.95.

Edit: Don't miss the fact I also work for their competitor and also cut and paste info from their website in te hope that some anandtech suckers will double my commission by purchasing both products!
/end sarcasm

 

[MrChau]

can it survive this? http://staff.washington.edu/jdlarios/autoclave/faq.html

"What does Autoclave do?
It securely erases everything in the writable space on a hard drive. Everything. All the files, all the free space, the partition table, the boot sector, the works. This includes the operating system and any preinstalled packages your hardware vendor may have included on the drive when you got it. Everything. I don't know how to say this more emphatically. When Autoclave is done running, you will have a hard drive filled with zeros, and nothing else. "

"Isn't that what fdisk and format do?
No. When you partition and format a drive, in general way less than 1% of the blocks on the drive actually get modified. It's trivial to retrieve data from a drive which has been formatted. "

i also got this in response to a question i asked a LapTrak representative, a company that offeres security software similar to PC PhoneHome,

"When you say "completely deleted", I assume you mean at all levels.
Currently there is no software that can not be completely removed from a
computer's hard drive. In fact, some thieves are simply zapping hard drives
with an electronic magnet which makes software that claims to survive format
null and void."

anyody have any insite? i am looking to invest in one of these security softwares but i am skeptical of their effectiveness.

 

[apoppin]

If you do a google search you will see a lot of negative info:

, I would go so far as to say it seems more of a scam than a true security solution.

It would be effective, but unfortunately it fails to address a simple yet serious issue. If you look at my IP address it is "192.168.1.2" that is an internal IP address, the result of being on a network, or behind a router. That would make it impossible to track. The software needs to be able to work behind NAT routers, and should connect to a server run by PC PhoneHome so that it can be traced back, defeating the protection that a cheap router can give.

Overall, I don't think this product is very effective, I would go so far as to say it seems more of a scam than a true security solution. It can be easily defeated if a router is used between the computer and the Internet connection. Lastly, if the hard drive is replaced, or the computer is used for parts, nothing stops the thief. The product fails to address many easy solutions. If it could detect an IP address behind a NAT router, that would possibly make it somewhat effective

Personally, I think it is a "rip" - my opinion only. It seems like only the "free" version might be worthwhile for an UNSUSPECTING thief . . . I'd also prefer a good $29.95 lock.


EDIT: MORE CONCERNS

On paper, this sounds great, but some online sources express concern about how PC PhoneHome works. In addition to sending e-mail alerts to the laptop owner, it also sends a copy to Brigadoon Software, effectively providing a way for them to track legitimate users.
The company's president, Terrance Kawles, said the company has no intention of spying on its customers. "Obviously, that is not our purpose," he said. Brigadoon said the information it collects will be used only to help law enforcement officials trace a stolen computer.

Another concern: the product's instruction manual contains no documented way to uninstall or disable the software.

Great, I get to PAY $30 for a company to SPY on ME!?! . . . and I can't Uninstall it . . . NO THANKS!

BTW, I don't thinkI will bother with the "free" version either . . . isn't it time-limited?


(If you consider it a thread-crap, sorry . . . I call it "research")

 

[ALAVergas]

Originally posted by: apoppin
If you do a google search you will see a lot of negative info:

<big snip>

BTW, I don't thinkI will bother with the "free" version either . . . isn't it time-limited?

(If you consider it a thread-crap, sorry . . . I call it "research")

Sorry for the snip, but quoting all that takes up a lot of space. Cool so I canceled my order, others might want to consider doing the same. I emailed their support to ask about the Router issue, if its updated from your link and will work from a router I may repurchase it.

Now go to work on this one .

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ALAVergas

Originally posted by: apoppin
If you do a google search you will see a lot of negative info:

<big snip>

BTW, I don't thinkI will bother with the "free" version either . . . isn't it time-limited?

(If you consider it a thread-crap, sorry . . . I call it "research")

Sorry for the snip, but quoting all that takes up a lot of space. Cool so I canceled my order, others might want to consider doing the same. I emailed their support to ask about the Router issue, if its updated from your link and will work from a router I may repurchase it.

Now go to work on this one .

Saving Bandwith, huh?


Well, PLEASE keep us updated . . . It just seems the logistics of this program - difficulty of tracking the notebook behing a router; the ability to delete the program with other disk utilities; the UNlikelyhood of the police even bothering to serve a warrant even IF you can subpoena the IP . . . does not make for a good $30 "investment". . . .


Computrace seems better only that it can "wipe" HD date . . . but if you take "normal" (read: free) precautions to ENCRYPT your sensitive files, it is "moot" anyway.

I'd say get a good lock.

 

[apoppin]

I guess it's OK, if you realize what it is FOR.

From their FAQs

Q. Do PC users know that ComputracePlus is running on their machines?
A. Not unless you choose to tell them. Given that approximately 70% of PC theft is linked to or committed by internal employees, you may choose to keep the use of ComputracePlus concealed.

IF you are worried about EMPLOYEES stealing corporate laptops, it may be a good idea since YOU can trace their IP [and them and fire their asses].

Also, what do you think of a company that promises LIFETIME service for $30 where other companies charge per year? This always raises a RED FLAG to me . . . do I trust them to NOT sell my personal info when times get tough? . . . How long do they expect to be in business or are they out to make a 'quick buck'?

 

[Johneverd]

From their website:

"PC PhoneHome cannot be removed by unauthorized parties even if they attempt to wipe the computer's hard drive using format or fdisk commands. A special uninstall program is used to remove the software. "


It looks to me like it must create a partition with a proprietary file system (not FAT32 or NTFS). Most thieves would likely not know how to delete a non-standard partition, IMHO.

On the other hand, unless it's a major company being hacked, most law enforcement won't follow an IP address to prosecution. That makes this less then useful. Oh well..