Last Vegas strip shooting: More than 20 dead, 100 injured after gunman opens fire near Mandalay Bay

[Muse]

The statements by Las Vegas PD have been baffling. I don't know what they are thinking in giving out false information repeatedly, then later telling the public that the information was wrong and giving more information. There must be another story there.... but I'm not sure we'll know what really happened for another year or two.


To me, it appears that Las Vegas PD are in "cover-up" mode in terms of their ability to stop this attack and their failure to do so. That is the only explanation I have for giving false information. You can tell they are very anxious and frustrated but I wonder if they are more frustrated in their own incompetence than anything else.

I never expect competence from cops. Time and time again I have seen that they can be simply in denial of the obvious and complete waste time, manpower and resources in pursuing the absurd. Apparently they have shot themselves in the foot with their misinformation concerning the Las Vegas Tragedy on Oct. 1. Honestly, my feeling is that I don't want to set foot in Nevada, not that I have since my folks took me there when I was 14. I'm in CA, it's pretty close, but other than seeing Hoover damn again, why would I want to go there? I've done that, anyway.

 

[Muse]

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[realibrad]

Hey FIVR, did you ever consider that maybe a guy willing to do this might have also set explosive traps around the room? Until I confirmed that there was not a pound of C4 at the door, I would not go in.

 

[VRAMdemon]

If these massacres are the "price of freedom" like some pundits are saying. It's safe to say that if the victims of these shootings are "paying the price for our freedom", then they should be treated like any soldier killed during wartime.

Let's bury them in military cemeteries (including Arlington National Cemetery) if their survivors wish it, and give their surviving relatives the same benefits that the survivors of soldiers killed in the line of duty receive. And same for those who are wounded: they should get the same care that soldiers who are wounded in action get, including lifetime VA benefits.

As a wiser man than I once said, "let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan."

 

[VRAMdemon]

Can anyone enlighten me as to this conspiracy angle I keep seeing where people want camera footage of the shooter getting his guns up to the room? Like they don't believe he had that many or something? They believe he had help?

Maybe there's a simple explanation. Maybe at certain high-end hotels when you show up with a heavy bag some dude who works at the hotel will offer to carry it up to your room for you! And if you had several bags they'd fetch a cart with wheels and roll your shit upstairs!

Why does there have to be some stupid conspiracy about this? Like was it supposed to be Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders helping him or something? Some poor bellhop is probably on the verge of suicide right now having become an unwitting accomplice to mass murder in the name however much money the shooter was known to tip. Nope, can't be that, it's got to be a conspiracy. "He had help, he wasn't acting alone, there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll."

 

[brycejones]

Can anyone enlighten me as to this conspiracy angle I keep seeing where people want camera footage of the shooter getting his guns up to the room? Like they don't believe he had that many or something? They believe he had help?

Maybe there's a simple explanation. Maybe at certain high-end hotels when you show up with a heavy bag some dude who works at the hotel will offer to carry it up to your room for you! And if you had several bags they'd fetch a cart with wheels and roll your shit upstairs!

Why does there have to be some stupid conspiracy about this? Like was it supposed to be Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders helping him or something? Some poor bellhop is probably on the verge of suicide right now having become an unwitting accomplice to mass murder in the name however much money the shooter was known to tip. Nope, can't be that, it's got to be a conspiracy. "He had help, he wasn't acting alone, there was a second shooter on the grassy knoll."

But the "shooter" was dead for hours before the killing began. This was all a false flag put together by the liberal elites to take away guns so they can overthrow Trump, send all religious people to "re-education" centers at Wal-Marts setup by FEMA under Jade Helm to become atheist Muslim Communists who are made to get gender reassignment surgery and become gay married so Apple will sell more iPhones in India to Chinese people there.

 

[bshole]

Hey FIVR, did you ever consider that maybe a guy willing to do this might have also set explosive traps around the room? Until I confirmed that there was not a pound of C4 at the door, I would not go in.

So you hear the rat-a-tat-tat inside the room and realize that each shot means a human life. Knowing that you are a policeman and your own safety takes priority over the people you are sworn to protect, you hunker down and wait for reinforcements. The shooter runs outs of ammo and takes himself out. One hour later, when you have determined that everything is safe, you break into the room. The question is what the f u c k do we need you for?

 

[Jhhnn]

Before you make exorbitant claims of disproving this theory or that, you should get your information straight. Las Vegas PD "updated" (read: announced that up to this point the information they have been giving is false) the timeline so that 6 minutes before Paddock started shooting, the security guard confronted him and was shot in the hallway.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vegas-shooting-20171009-story.html


What is your explanation for why it took until an hour after shooting had stopped (and Paddock had apparently killed himself) for them to breach the room? If the security guard was shot, why weren't police immediately confronting the shooter? Why did they allow him to fire for 10-11 minutes into a crowd 6 minutes after he had already confronted security and shot somebody else?


My explanation, is they were afraid of the automatic gunfire coming from his room and were not willing to risk their lives to storm the building. Just like with the Orlando shooter, Las Vegas PD cared more about their own lives than the lives of the hundreds of people at that concert. So they died, and now the police have spent the last week telling us (false) stories about how the shooter was confronted by a guard and that stopped the shooting. And then later backtracking on that story.... and then acting "frustrated" that the news is interested in the details.


It is incompetence... but no doubt that is the usual state of things for US law enforcement. And we cannot have US law enforcement appear to be incompetent when we have brainwashed the nation into worshipping them. So there is much confusion.

The revised timeline doesn't put LV police on the scene until after the shooting had stopped.

 

[HumblePie]

Serious question: if we can require everyone purchasing a gun to take a gun safety class, which I think is a good idea and one which you said you support so long as the class is free, then why do we need to teach gun safety in our public schools? Why should someone who will never own or operate a firearm use valuable educational time to learn proper gun safety?

1) It's a written Constitutional Right.

2) Guns are prevalent in our country. Even if you never intend to own a gun, doesn't mean you'll never come in contact with them

Having everyone educated about gun history, safety, and training can only be a good thing. Even if a given individual never intends to own a gun. General education along those lines doesn't need to focus on the "training" aspect as much as someone looking to make a purchase. But basic gun safety education and history will go a long way to helping every American understand a bit more about BOTH sides of the gun control debate.

 

[realibrad]

So you hear the rat-a-tat-tat inside the room and realize that each shot means a human life. Knowing that you are a policeman and your own safety takes priority over the people you are sworn to protect, you hunker down and wait for reinforcements. The shooter runs outs of ammo and takes himself out. One hour later, when you have determined that everything is safe, you break into the room. The question is what the f u c k do we need you for?

Yes, you wait but not for the reasons you have given. Its not about personal safety, but the fact that an explosive could cause a lot more death. You don't run into a place guns blazing and hope everything works out. You make sure that what you end up doing to try and stop this guy does not end up hurting more people.

Had this guy rigged that room to blow and they ran in there, what do you think would have happened to people in that building, around that building? Does he rig a firebomb that isolates the people above him and create another 911 were people jump to their deaths?

I feel sympathy for the lives that would be lost waiting, but I would feel anger if they made a bonehead move that got more hurt.

 

[zinfamous]

Paranoid hyperbole isn't the answer.

So we might as well scrap the whole education system then. I mean nothing works right? Just pure anarchy in the streets. Let the world sink into idiocracy because zinfamous thinks people in America can't be taught.

Reality check. Just because you are a dumbfuck that can't learn anything, doesn't mean other people can't. Expecting me to come up with a syllabus and game plan to educate people about gun safety, history, and training is not my specialty. There are people who's sole joy in life is coming up with such educational plans. I leave that work to the experts instead of people like you who would rather let everyone remain in ignorance.

If you don't believe the education system on a whole is working then you have no idea how truly dumb most people on average wore 100+ years ago.

You're not talking about the education system, though. You are talking about imposing an issue on people that is unprecedented in this country. The 2A protects your (or a militia's right--obviously that is is still debated to this day, and wholly dependent on the individual's literacy, it seems ) right to own a gun, but it doesn't impose that right on anyone. You are essentially arguing to strip away the right of free association guaranteed in the 1A, by imposing upon everyone to join the club that you want them to join. Sure, that sounds like hyperbole, but you aren't imposing the same with automobile ownership--required education, training, licensing only if you choose to drive. Here, you require this regardless of the the individual's desire to own or operate a firearm. I don't get it.

But the real response is that you missed my point: You demand that people be educated in a way against their will. Your intentions may be good, and I tend to agree that more education, training, all of this are good things, but you demand that all be exposed to this. I don't know if you've spent your life in bunkers or what, but humans don't react favorably to being subjected to education/programs/licensing against their will. I mean, you realize that libertarians exist for a reason, right?

All the factual, observable, solid evidence for climate change, for evolution, for the round earth exists and is taught to students and adults alike, but the stubborn and proud ignorance of those that are determined to "believe" otherwise persists. I'm simply reminding you that humans and it seems particularly Americans (remember: our ancestors fled because no one else would let them impose their intolerance on others--not because they were being persecuted. --we are the intolerant) will, by default, reject any imposition put on them. I'm also saying that "proper education" is the meaningless, often-tried and more often-failed solution to various liberal and conservative fantasies alike. (If only the people could be better educated, we would have no: poverty, science-denial, quackery, gun violence, moron presidents, etc) Wake me up when this solution finally works.

...TLDR: I'm simply asking that despite the generation after generation of evidence that humans refuse to learn in the face of harsh realities, that they stubbornly reject impositions against their personal beliefs, why do you continue to think the solution is "proper education"....especially when it is about a subject that you already know that they (the specific people you are targeting) are heavily invested in rejecting?

Do you think "proper education" will turn a committed creationist into a rational, functioning human?

 

[zinfamous]

1) It's a written Constitutional Right.

2) Guns are prevalent in our country. Even if you never intend to own a gun, doesn't mean you'll never come in contact with them

Having everyone educated about gun history, safety, and training can only be a good thing. Even if a given individual never intends to own a gun. General education along those lines doesn't need to focus on the "training" aspect as much as someone looking to make a purchase. But basic gun safety education and history will go a long way to helping every American understand a bit more about BOTH sides of the gun control debate.

1) Please point to the text in that amendment that requires every US citizen to own a gun.

Thanks.

What if I intend to never own a car? (actually very easy to get by, these days). Should I also be required to learn about driving, safety, and training for car ownership because I will likely encounter them every day? The gun nutters try to remind me that cars are far more dangerous than guns, so isn't that a greater safety concern, not learning about cars?

Why should education specifically focus on the importance around one single amendment (the shortest one, at that)? And why should that focus accept the inherent danger and risk that results in the text of that amendment, and that's better for us to learn about how (as you are suggesting) that amendment has made our lives a bit more dangerous, and how "proper education" about that amendment can alleviate that danger? It's a strange rhetorical rabbit hole that you are falling into.

 

[HumblePie]

Is this some kind of shitty argument to open up nuclear weapons, chemical/biological weapons etc to the highest civilian voter? If so, how many days after that happened do you think western civilization would exist?

**** STRAWMAN ALERT ****

**** STRAWMAN ALERT ****

**** STRAWMAN ALERT ****

Arms are not nuclear weapons. Arms are literally defined as firearms which it was short for and defined many times by the writers of the Constitution.

PS.... 100 yards with a pistol.... my fucking ass....

50 yards with a pistol which you still keep misquoting from the original topic. Also, such a distance has been shown to you of others doing it on youtube videos and you STILL keep bringing it up like you weren't previously owned about that topic. Bringing it up constantly like some sort of banner about your retardation is just showing how trollish you can still be.

 

[HumblePie]

1) Please point to the text in that amendment that requires every US citizen to own a gun.

Thanks.

Where did I say everyone must own a gun dumbfuck? Reading comprehension FTL with you.

 

[bshole]

Yes, you wait but not for the reasons you have given. Its not about personal safety, but the fact that an explosive could cause a lot more death. You don't run into a place guns blazing and hope everything works out. You make sure that what you end up doing to try and stop this guy does not end up hurting more people.

Had this guy rigged that room to blow and they ran in there, what do you think would have happened to people in that building, around that building? Does he rig a firebomb that isolates the people above him and create another 911 were people jump to their deaths?

I feel sympathy for the lives that would be lost waiting, but I would feel anger if they made a bonehead move that got more hurt.

The man is in there with a machine gun, he runs out of ammo, what is to stop him from detonating the bomb at that point? Better to storm the room and interrupt his shooting. If he detonates the bomb, you still will save lives on the ground. Sounds like an excuse to me and a very poor one at that.

 

[zinfamous]

It's sadly predictable that enthusiasts will seize upon any inaccurate nomenclature or awkward sentence structure by the press to say "See! They don't know what they're talking about!" in order to dismiss valid criticism.

It's the "Attack the messenger when you have nothing to say" tactic that they are oh-so-quick to call you out for when they are being stubbornly obtuse on yet another broken argument they've made (let's go with climate change), and you've gotten sick of giving them facts that they refuse to acknowledge, and decide to just give them the additional observable fact that they are a fucking idiot.

 

[bshole]

50 yards with a pistol which you still keep misquoting from the original topic. Also, such a distance has been shown to you of others doing it on youtube videos and you STILL keep bringing it up like you weren't previously owned about that topic. Bringing it up constantly like some sort of banner about your retardation is just showing how trollish you can still be.

I am not one the bragging relentlessly over the course of YEARS on the internet to strangers with exaggerated claims of firearms prowess. You should take back the claim and you should apologize for lying.

I can aim and hit a quarter size area pretty damn consistently with my p238 at 50 yards on a B27 target.

He can hit a quarter at 50 yards with a pistol....

 

[realibrad]

The man is in there with a machine gun, he runs out of ammo, what is to stop him from detonating the bomb at that point? Better to storm the room and interrupt his shooting. If he detonates the bomb, you still will save lives on the ground. Sounds like an excuse to me and a very poor one at that.

You weigh everything you can. The point I am making is that running in to the room blind is a bad idea. I'm not saying there not costs and benefits, I'm saying that running in blind can end up making things worse.

For example, when the police raided a house and killed a little girl because they got things wrong in their rush. I think is more reasonable to be cautious of traps than just running into a room where a guy has been murdering people.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

The statements by Las Vegas PD have been baffling. I don't know what they are thinking in giving out false information repeatedly, then later telling the public that the information was wrong and giving more information. There must be another story there.... but I'm not sure we'll know what really happened for another year or two.


To me, it appears that Las Vegas PD are in "cover-up" mode in terms of their ability to stop this attack and their failure to do so. That is the only explanation I have for giving false information. You can tell they are very anxious and frustrated but I wonder if they are more frustrated in their own incompetence than anything else.

It really reminds me of the Columbine school shooting and the cover-up by Sheriff Stone.
http://www.westword.com/news/columbine-five-years-after-the-shootings-anatomy-of-a-cover-up-5081198

 

[imported_tajmahal]

The revised timeline doesn't put LV police on the scene until after the shooting had stopped.

Which would be 18 minutes after the first shots were fired. A timeline I personally find hard to believe in Las Vegas.

 

[woolfe9998]

1) It's a written Constitutional Right.

2) Guns are prevalent in our country. Even if you never intend to own a gun, doesn't mean you'll never come in contact with them

Having everyone educated about gun history, safety, and training can only be a good thing. Even if a given individual never intends to own a gun. General education along those lines doesn't need to focus on the "training" aspect as much as someone looking to make a purchase. But basic gun safety education and history will go a long way to helping every American understand a bit more about BOTH sides of the gun control debate.

Discussions of the Second Amendment and gun control can take place in civics and government classes. If you feel the issue is not adequately addressed in those settings, then your solution is to push for more inclusion of the subject. A separate class, to take the place of something else, is a non-starter. These issues already fall under the broader topics of required courses.

So far as actual gun safety training, I just don't see the need for it so long as we require that a first time purchaser of guns takes such a course. It's wasteful of educational resources and time to require it of people who will never purchase or use a gun.

And to address your point about required courses, neither shop nor home ec were required where I went to school. Of the ones you listed, only PE was required. But even where they are required, they're essentially vocational classes. Gun training is only vocational if you're going to be police or military, but in both cases you are trained on the job.

 

[echo4747]

found this video interesting claiming proof of a 2nd shooter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxmEFeKy8aI

I'm no physics/acoustics expert ; but maybe somebody here with that knowledge can say whether or not it has any credence

 

[J.Wilkins]

found this video interesting claiming proof of a 2nd shooter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxmEFeKy8aI

I'm no physics/acoustics expert ; but maybe somebody here with that knowledge can say whether or not it has any credence

There are a lot of different videos out there and some witnesses claim that there were 3-5 shooters on the ground. Shit like "i saw the bullets coming at me from ground level" is being thrown around, as if you could see the trajectory of a bullet while standing there.

All this conspiracy retarded bullshit happens every time, next up... It was Pence that was the shooter and he was supported by the Jews...

In reality, unedited videos are being examined by experts but hey, what do they know? They know nothing and are just patsies for the Jews anyway...

 

[pmv]

So you hear the rat-a-tat-tat inside the room and realize that each shot means a human life. Knowing that you are a policeman and your own safety takes priority over the people you are sworn to protect, you hunker down and wait for reinforcements. The shooter runs outs of ammo and takes himself out. One hour later, when you have determined that everything is safe, you break into the room. The question is what the f u c k do we need you for?

Way too early to make judgements on people's actions in this case. Who knows exactly what the course of events was?

I do hope it gets a proper examination eventually though.

(I recall being a bit suspicious of how the Columbine massacre was handled, with heavily armed SWAT teams taking forever to get to people who were bleeding to death - not that I paid all that much attention to the aftermath, to be honest).

 

[bshole]

Way too early to make judgements on people's actions in this case. Who knows exactly what the course of events was?

I do hope it gets a proper examination eventually though.

(I recall being a bit suspicious of how the Columbine massacre was handled, with heavily armed SWAT teams taking forever to get to people who were bleeding to death - not that I paid all that much attention to the aftermath, to be honest).

Every mass shooting seems to be the same. The only time I can recall an actual intervention was when the guy shot up a military complex and a soldier engaged him. It there any incident that you are aware of where the cops actually stopped a mass murderer? It seems they always allow the shooter to expend every last cartridge before they decide to ever so cautiously engage.