Last Vegas strip shooting: More than 20 dead, 100 injured after gunman opens fire near Mandalay Bay

[momeNt]

So it's just for the putter fluttering? Good to know. Does it help you squirt?

The only way I squirt is by rolling some serious coal. You haven't lived until you've done it. Since we are on the topic, what gets your putter fluttering or makes you squirt?

 

[Victorian Gray]

A debate occurred? All we talked about was smoking and there was nothing to be done.

Bingo!

 

[Paratus]

Really, this is your reply? I own a couple of shotguns and a couple long guns. I'm hardly a gun nut. But I am for logic and common sense.

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-...-u-k-and-eu-further-restrict-tobacco-industry

And you anti-2A'ers say we've done all we can do for tobacco and accept nearly half a million deaths from it while beating your chests over a comparative drop in the bucket that are gun deaths. I bet a lot of you are the same ones that want single payer / government supplied medical care. Wonder which one would cost us more, guns or tobacco...

You don't care about saving lives. The anti-2A arguments are little more than emotion and propaganda. Average Americans see through this, repeatedly.

Looks like we are making good progress in getting people to quit smoking through education and regulation.

 

[Paratus]

What a strange chart. It's almost as if the more gun owners there are the more gun deaths there are.

 

[momeNt]

What a strange chart. It's almost as if the more gun owners there are the more gun deaths there are.

To add some grains of salt to that.

Alaska has the highest number of suicides by firearm. Their intentional homicide rate by firearm is actually low. They just have very high rate of suicide - 80% of firearm deaths by suicide vs 50% nationally.

Vitamin D deficiency as well as higher concentrations of military veterans and PTSD diagnoses can make that graph look a lot different.

 

[pmv]

To add some grains of salt to that.

Alaska has the highest number of suicides by firearm. Their intentional homicide rate by firearm is actually low. They just have very high rate of suicide - 80% of firearm deaths by suicide vs 50% nationally.

Vitamin D deficiency as well as higher concentrations of military veterans and PTSD diagnoses can make that graph look a lot different.

Cold, dark, Northern countries/regions do seem to to have that trait. The higher the latitude the lower the morale. Not sure it's as directly biological as Vitamin D deficency, though it's possible.

 

[SlowSpyder]

So it's just for the putter fluttering? Good to know. Does it help you squirt?

Pathetic.

 

[SlowSpyder]

The only way I squirt is by rolling some serious coal. You haven't lived until you've done it. Since we are on the topic, what gets your putter fluttering or makes you squirt?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPMbLO4pAY&t=204s

 

[SlowSpyder]

What a strange chart. It's almost as if the more gun owners there are the more gun deaths there are.

I'm not shocked that a Mother Jones sourced chart shows guns in a bad light.

But here is the difference between you and I. You are no different than the far right that wants to ban or restrict Muslims because they scare some people and there have been substantial terror attacks carried out by Islamists. Both extreme sides would restrict essential freedom to feel better and be able to point to statistics that are very, very minor in the grand scheme of it all. You're of the same illogical ilk.

 

[momeNt]

I'm not shocked that a Mother Jones sourced chart shows guns in a bad light.

But here is the difference between you and I. You are no different than the far right that wants to ban or restrict Muslims because they scare some people and there have been substantial terror attacks carried out by Islamists. Both extreme sides would restrict essential freedom to feel better and be able to point to statistics that are very, very minor in the grand scheme of it all. You're of the same illogical ilk.

Mother Jones actually has a good article on how Lead is likely the primary cause of violence in this country.

http://www.motherjones.com/environm...sure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

 

[momeNt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPMbLO4pAY&t=204s

That was terribly rude of those people.

It's possible to enjoy rolling coal without it being at the expense of others. If not for it being directed at people in a rude way, I would say that that video is nearing on pornographic, instead it was more like rape and done in poor taste =(

Roll Coal Responsibly.

 

[JSt0rm]

That was terribly rude of those people.

It's possible to enjoy rolling coal without it being at the expense of others. If not for it being directed at people in a rude way, I would say that that video is nearing on pornographic, instead it was more like rape and done in poor taste =(

Roll Coal Responsibly.

Im confused about what is this thing. Are these people who think global warming is a joke and are dumping pollution into the air in protest?

 

[blankslate]

Cold, dark, Northern countries/regions do seem to to have that trait. The higher the latitude the lower the morale. Not sure it's as directly biological as Vitamin D deficency, though it's possible.

there are interesting and convincing studies about seasonal affective disorder and some people respond to treatment with full spectrum lighting that simulates sunlight.

To be sure firearms make it easier for people with severe cases of SAD to kill themselves but I also wouldn't discount a higher suicide rate in general among Alaska's population than some of the lower latitude states being a factor either.


___________

 

[ivwshane]

Im confused about what is this thing. Are these people who think global warming is a joke and are dumping pollution into the air in protest?

I wouldn't worry about, it's an issue that will fix itself. I've seen a study that shows Diesel smoke causes cancer and with the Republicans gutting healthcare, they'll get sick and die quickly.

 

[woolfe9998]

So your stance is that second hand smoke is already regulated to the point it needs to be, but it kills nearly 4x as many innocent people as all gun homicides, police shootings, and accidents combined. So then if you're willing to accept that, then I can't find good reason to argue for every more restrictions on guns. You brush off alcohol, but drunk driving deaths are a very real killer, quite literally thousands of people. Guns are already more than reasonably regulated when weighed against other freedoms and rights and their cost to society.

No, I challenge the "conventional wisdom" about second hand smoke because the actual research doesn't back it. There is a difference between what research shows and how this information is filtered to the public. What we are told in articles we often read is that there is a high risk. Often large numbers are cited. These results are often outliers. Public health officials and organizations (both gov and NGO's) will often exaggerate risks because they think there is no harm in doing so, that it's actually a benefit to err on the side of alarmism.

Massive cohort study here:

https://academic.oup.com/jnci/artic...o-Clear-Link-Between-Passive-Smoking-and-Lung

Key quote:

The only category of exposure that showed a trend toward increased risk was living in the same house with a smoker for 30 years or more.

Raw study:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25316260

Perspective:

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...ondhand_smoke_isn_t_as_bad_as_we_thought.html

One thing that is important to understand is that studies on second hand smoke generally evaluate non-smokers who are married to smokers. Occasionally they may track people who get daily exposure in a work place. They rarely track people who get transitory or occasional exposure in public places because it is impossible to quantify exposure from one subject to the next. Notice that the above cohort study tracked all categories. It found risk only with long term daily indoor exposure.

Whatever the total number of deaths per year from second hand smoke, there is no evidence whatsoever that anyone is dying from occasional exposure, and accordingly, there is little to no public health justification for smoking bans in public places. Work places make sense. Not many other situations, and certainly not these outdoor smoking bans that are starting to pop up in various places.

What would you suggest we do aside from what we're already doing in relation to second hand smoke? Once you've banned it in every indoor location besides one's own home or in one's own car, the only thing left is to ban cigarettes entirely. In New York they've almost done that already by taxing it so much that no one who isn't wealthy can afford a smoking habit. This, in turn, has created an enormous illegal cigarette trade in NY which, like all forms of prohibition, has resulted in unpleasant side effects, including some murders. Perhaps you're not seeing people starting threads about banning cigarettes, which is the only next logical step that we haven't yet tried, because we've seen the results of alcohol and drug prohibition, namely that they don't work very well and cause more problems than they solve.

So far as drunk driving, I don't brush it off. But it's already illegal, isn't it? The parallel here would be that guns should be illegal as well, right? Are you suggesting that we should all be for substantially increasing the penalties for drunk driving, like treating it as a felony on a first offense? I see no inconsistency between not supporting draconian penalties for first offense drunk driving and supporting some gun control.

 

[shortylickens]

Cold, dark, Northern countries/regions do seem to to have that trait. The higher the latitude the lower the morale. Not sure it's as directly biological as Vitamin D deficency, though it's possible.

Umm, if you look closer at that chart you will see Minnesota and North Dakota are well below the trend line and many warm southern states are well above the trend line.

 

[Jhhnn]

Pathetic.

What's pathetic are the Rambo fantasies of firepower freaks.

 

[pmv]

Umm, if you look closer at that chart you will see Minnesota and North Dakota are well below the trend line and many warm southern states are well above the trend line.

But Minnesota and North Dakota are a lot further South than Alaska. Hell, they are considerably further south than SE England (though I get pretty glum in winter, short days and low temperatures are just damn depressing, whether its Vitamin D or purely psychological). The shortness of the days and lack of sun increases non-linearly with latitude.

I wouldn't call those places high latitudes, they are southern relative to me. As for the Southern states, nobody says latitude is the _only_ factor, and it seems likely that it's only in the really northern places that the effect shows up over all the others.

There are studies out there that find a correlation between suicide rates and latitude, I believe.

Also, Alaska is full of vampires, apparently. They probably report vampire kills as suicides.

 

[Paratus]

I'm not shocked that a Mother Jones sourced chart shows guns in a bad light.

But here is the difference between you and I. You are no different than the far right that wants to ban or restrict Muslims because they scare some people and there have been substantial terror attacks carried out by Islamists. Both extreme sides would restrict essential freedom to feel better and be able to point to statistics that are very, very minor in the grand scheme of it all. You're of the same illogical ilk.

First guns are not people. So banning an inanimate object is not the same as banning a group of people.

Second I have not advocated a blanket ban on firearms. That's your own projection.

My beef is with those who justify their ownership of weapons by saying more weapons makes them safer. Outside of very specific individuals and circumstances it does not.

What real scientific data we have shows that.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/

Of course it's hard to get good data since your new buds at the NRA are frightened of what the evidence would show.

Underestimating the risk from owning a gun is also a pretty standard psychological response to risk. People tend to overestimate the danger from risk they don't feel they control and underestimate the ones they feel they do control. Hence why some who won't fly are fine driving even though your more likely die in a car by a couple of orders of magnitude.

 

[OutHouse]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYPMbLO4pAY&t=204s

My town just banned that shit. I hate those retards.

 

[Younigue]

Lame. I barely own any guns, they're tucked away nicely in my basement gun safe. I don't own any handguns. I'm just logical, not an emotional scared type.

LOL! "Logical"! You left logic three thousand six hundred and fifty eight pages ago, if you were ever blessed with any to begin with. You've certainly given one pause to think it likely you've been stunted the entire span of your life. Your debate is completely moronic and though you've bandied about statistics and blathered on annoyingly (giving the most annoying noise in the world a run for its money) you've accomplished nothing and convinced no one. I do hope your "basement safe/bed buddy" guns become illegal for you or anyone to own one day soon but much like your arguments, it's useless. Get a grip man. Stop acting the fool. Go ahead and feel confident that when it comes to guns, evil wins. Now go have a drink, and a smoke (but don't you dare stand near a smoker for 30 years straight!) and stop selling your bullish*t... Or don't. You do seem devoted to vomiting your ridiculousness for all to see. Far be it for me to suggest you get a divorce, even though it (your foolish argument) treats you so poorly. Love is love man. You two are going to be together for at least another six thousand four hundred and seventy one pages!

 

[ch33zw1z]

New law in HI to fight second hand smoke - http://www.wilx.com/content/news/Smoking-in-car-with-kids-illegal-in-Hawaii-city-452733373.html

fuck yea. ive hated on smoking in the car with kids for so long, some people just DGAF.

 

[pmv]

Mother Jones actually has a good article on how Lead is likely the primary cause of violence in this country.

http://www.motherjones.com/environm...sure-gasoline-crime-increase-children-health/

Having grown up in an high-traffic inner city area at a time when lead levels were at their highest, this has long been a source of anger to me. Whether it is the reason for the crime stats or not (and there are many different possible explanations, it seems an impossible thing to ever 'prove' definitively) I damn well resent having been poisoned just to save motorists a bit of money. Now it's particulates and NOx they are poisoning me with, not to mention there remain some question marks over the substances they've replaced lead with.

(Incidentally, its not limited to the US - one point in favour of the "lead causes crime wave" argument is that the same data also exists for other countries, where the chronology is different but the same correlation can, arguably, be seen).

Cars are a close second to guns in terms of things needing more regulation. And outside of the US they come first in the list.

(In contrast, smoking _is_ very strongly regulated, and is slowly dying out in as a habit in the first world - probably simply because it primarily kills its users, rather than other people, which makes it far easier to get people to stop doing it and accept legal restrictions on it)

 

[momeNt]

Im confused about what is this thing. Are these people who think global warming is a joke and are dumping pollution into the air in protest?

Are you protesting global warming every time you purchase a cow-based product? My guess is no, so why do you assume that of coal rollers?

 

[zinfamous]

To add some grains of salt to that.

Alaska has the highest number of suicides by firearm. Their intentional homicide rate by firearm is actually low. They just have very high rate of suicide - 80% of firearm deaths by suicide vs 50% nationally.

Vitamin D deficiency as well as higher concentrations of military veterans and PTSD diagnoses can make that graph look a lot different.

suicides....so what you gun nutters (looking at you, slowspider) are saying, is that you don't really care about actual deaths, because suicides don't count.

got it.