Last Vegas strip shooting: More than 20 dead, 100 injured after gunman opens fire near Mandalay Bay

[woolfe9998]

Did he remove it after he was dead or before he was dead? What did the security officer that stopped the whole shooting say about it?

Well he quite obviously didn't remove anything after he was dead. You're being facetious, and suggesting that perhaps someone else removed it for nefarious reasons. Yet I see no reason to assume that. You're coming off like a conspiracy theorist here. This is the typical kind of "evidence" cited by people like Alex Jones.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well he quite obviously didn't remove anything after he was dead. You're being facetious, and suggesting that perhaps someone else removed it for nefarious reasons. Yet I see no reason to assume that. You're coming off like a conspiracy theorist here. This is the typical kind of "evidence" cited by people like Alex Jones.

It's obviously a giant gun grabber conspiracy in some parts of the intarwebs...

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Taj is working his way towards a conspiracy theory, of course. Paddock could have removed the drive any time prior to the shooting.

The wounded security guy didn't stop the shooting & never entered the suite. he was probably at the hospital when the police entered the room an hour later-

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/05/las-vegas-shooting-timeline-events.html

We all know you can trust Fox, Taj.

The police are running a fine investigation. Fine, truly an inspiring investigation along the lines of the successful political campaign of Hillary Clinton for Presidency in 2016.

 

[Jhhnn]

The police are running a fine investigation. Fine, truly an inspiring investigation along the lines of the successful political campaign of Hillary Clinton for Presidency in 2016.

I figure they're doing the best they can. There's no reason to believe otherwise.

 

[brycejones]

Did he remove it after he was dead or before he was dead? What did the security officer that stopped the whole shooting say about it?

Yes the dead man removed the drive from his laptop and hid it after he killed himself.

tajbot 3.0 is already losing it.

 

[pmv]

No. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of statistics and empirical research. The research on gun ownership explicitly controls for known risk factors like location, income, crime rates, etc. That's what regressions are for, after all. After controlling for those factors that you mention gun ownership is, once again, associated with significantly higher rates of death by homicide and suicide.

I mean did you seriously think all of these highly trained researchers and statisticians were just running descriptive statistics?

Just for the sake of variety, and being absolutely fair (and also because the same point comes up in relation to completely different topics) I do think there are limits to what can be controlled for and there could possibly be unrecognised confounding variables.

Also, I think suicide is a different issue to homicide, and the two should be discussed separately. While it's true that sucide rates are clearly affected by the availability of means (e.g. if you have knowledge of and access to pharmacuticals you are more likely to kill yourself, same thing with guns) its still a different moral issue. I think those are two different arguments, really.

Of course there are also all the accidental shootings, particularly of other family members, plus lethal domestic violence. Seems like those things would obviously be far more likely with guns in a home.

Are those figures available, distinct from those involving people being shot by outsiders (a category which could, possibly, still be affected by unkown confounding factors)?

 

[ch33zw1z]

The police are running a fine investigation. Fine, truly an inspiring investigation along the lines of the successful political campaign of Hillary Clinton for Presidency in 2016.

then let the cospiracy theories fly.

 

[fskimospy]

Just for the sake of variety, and being absolutely fair (and also because the same point comes up in relation to completely different topics) I do think there are limits to what can be controlled for and there could possibly be unrecognised confounding variables.

Well of course there are limits but the evidence is quite strong. Is it absolutely certain that owning a gun makes you more likely to be killed? No. The evidence strongly indicates that is the case though.

Also, I think suicide is a different issue to homicide, and the two should be discussed separately. While it's true that sucide rates are clearly affected by the availability of means (e.g. if you have knowledge of and access to pharmacuticals you are more likely to kill yourself, same thing with guns) its still a different moral issue. I think those are two different arguments, really.

I agree they are different morally but practically I don’t see how they are different. Dead is dead.

Of course there are also all the accidental shootings, particularly of other family members, plus lethal domestic violence. Seems like those things would obviously be far more likely with guns in a home.

Are those figures available, distinct from those involving people being shot by outsiders (a category which could, possibly, still be affected by unkown confounding factors)?

If you look back at the studies I linked earlier there’s one that breaks out stranger vs. non-stranger homicide. Basically it found that owning a gun didn’t change your odds of death by a stranger but it did increase your odds of death by someone you knew.

 

[pmv]

Well of course there are limits but the evidence is quite strong. Is it absolutely certain that owning a gun makes you more likely to be killed? No. The evidence strongly indicates that is the case though.



I agree they are different morally but practically I don’t see how they are different. Dead is dead.

Just saying that from the point-of-view of government policies, the moral difference is important, and hence the accompanying arguments about how to respond to the statistics are different. Suicide isn't a crime, and laws intended to reduce it need a greater degree of active consent than do laws intended to prevent harm to others.

If you look back at the studies I linked earlier there’s one that breaks out stranger vs. non-stranger homicide. Basically it found that owning a gun didn’t change your odds of death by a stranger but it did increase your odds of death by someone you knew.

That seems an extremely important point, and (for me any way) pretty much settles the question.

 

[momeNt]

Yes the dead man removed the drive from his laptop and hid it after he killed himself.

tajbot 3.0 is already losing it.

Tom Cruise in Knight and Day

"Nobody follow us or I kill myself and then her!"

 

[SlowSpyder]

what the hell does this mean?

...I'm starting to think that you actually don't understand a fucking thing.

All you guys have is insults. Saying guns make you less safe is an overly broad brush to paint with. One giant average that is meaningless in any practical sense.

*edit - Up to ~32500 deaths from tobacco since the Vegas shooting, not a single thread from you social justice life saving heroes. Guns can't get off the front page with this site, though. You care about an agenda, you don't give a damn about saving lives.

 

[J.Wilkins]

All you guys have is insults. Saying guns make you less safe is an overly broad brush to paint with. One giant average that is meaningless in any practical sense.

*edit - Up to ~32500 deaths from tobacco since the Vegas shooting, not a single thread from you social justice life saving heroes. Guns can't get off the front page with this site, though. You care about an agenda, you don't give a damn about saving lives.

All we have is evidence from nations that used to be just like the US but elected to invoke gun amnesties and a ban on civilians owning guns other than for specific purposes.

You can divert as much as you like, the numbers of nations like Australia and Germany where this was done speaks for themselves.

You could still keep your guns, you just need to lock them up so no one steals them (which is where 99.99% of illegal guns come from) and have a valid reason to have them, like join a shooting club or have grounds or a license to hunt on someone else's grounds or be a collector.

I've got some interesting weapons, locked up.

 

[woolfe9998]

All you guys have is insults. Saying guns make you less safe is an overly broad brush to paint with. One giant average that is meaningless in any practical sense.

*edit - Up to ~32500 deaths from tobacco since the Vegas shooting, not a single thread from you social justice life saving heroes. Guns can't get off the front page with this site, though. You care about an agenda, you don't give a damn about saving lives.

Again with the crap analogy over tobacco. Your ability to persist in making arguments which have been thoroughly refuted over and over again is duly noted.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Again with the crap analogy over tobacco. Your ability to persist in making arguments which have been thoroughly refuted over and over again is duly noted.

Thoroughly refuted?? You act as deaths only count when they are for your cause.

 

[pmv]

Thoroughly refuted?? You act as deaths only count when they are for your cause.

The reason you get insulted is because reason and argument have no impact on you, you don't listen to them and just return to your tedious mantra.

 

[Thebobo]

All you guys have is insults. Saying guns make you less safe is an overly broad brush to paint with. One giant average that is meaningless in any practical sense.

*edit - Up to ~32500 deaths from tobacco since the Vegas shooting, not a single thread from you social justice life saving heroes. Guns can't get off the front page with this site, though. You care about an agenda, you don't give a damn about saving lives.

OMG people are dying from tobacco?? Shit I've NEVER heard that before. Why are discussing gun regulations when we should be talking about T O B A C C O !

And thanks Slow for bringing it to our attention, for the billionth time.

 

[Thebobo]

Lol so looking at the comments section in the FOX website is priceless. A lot of the people are saying they think the security guard was the killer. Like this;

It was the security guard that did it and he used Paddock as his patsy. That's why he ran. He shot himself and if they find him they will find burn marks from the self inflicted wounds. The time line is simple. Conspiracy.

Except that the guns in the room were sold to Paddock. He bought some 33 guns in 12 months.

 

[TheVrolok]

All you guys have is insults. Saying guns make you less safe is an overly broad brush to paint with. One giant average that is meaningless in any practical sense.

*edit - Up to ~32500 deaths from tobacco since the Vegas shooting, not a single thread from you social justice life saving heroes. Guns can't get off the front page with this site, though. You care about an agenda, you don't give a damn about saving lives.

It's not an insult, you legitimately don't understand (or are pretending not to) how statistics work.

I'm also waiting for your thoughts on the Surgeon General's report on tobacco cessation efforts and successes throughout history and present day, especially in the context that you continue to state that no one cares about smoking.

I won't hold my breath.

 

[woolfe9998]

Thoroughly refuted?? You act as deaths only count when they are for your cause.

You act as if numerous arguments haven't been made for why this is such a bad analogy, most of which you have ignored, blithely continuing to repeat the same debunked argument. I won't repeat those arguments because you know them well by now, and you also know that you can't refute them.

 

[Paladin3]

Well, with Alex Jones going on full alert, it was only a matter of time before the Sandy Hook truthers went full retard on Vegas victims:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/26/las-vegas-shooting-conspiracy-theories-social-media

I'm going to go out on a limb here and make a bold unsubstantiated claim--the people who would bully shooting victims on social media do not vote Democrat, and are less likely to support "establishment" Republicans. Discuss.

While there surely are nutters of both the conservative and liberal bent, wackos like these make me ashamed to be lumped in with their group because I own guns too. I firmly believe a significant portion of the gun owning population has no business owning firearms.

 

[SlowSpyder]

You act as if numerous arguments haven't been made for why this is such a bad analogy, most of which you have ignored, blithely continuing to repeat the same debunked argument. I won't repeat those arguments because you know them well by now, and you also know that you can't refute them.

You guys can frame it however you'd like. But the simple fact of the matter is that you do not care about saving lives, not the ones that don't help your political agenda. You think some overly broad sweeping statistic is the be all end all of the debate on whether guns are good or bad, much of which is based off of suicide. You ignore killers that put more bodies in the ground, are easier to get, do more harm to society, and have even less usefulness. Because if it isn't a gun it doesn't scare you and you don't have such an emotionally held partisan position on those other killers. The same people here pushing numbers are the same people that were sure of Madam President (because numbers), smugly too. By all means, keep the anti-2A circle jerk going here, I don't know how you guys continue to be so smug in your opinions while ignoring the reality of how America feels about your way beyond common sense positions as seen in the previous election. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Svnla]

there is tons of evidence to back up that guns make you less safe. Your argument is horrible.

Oh really? Why don't you ask this female homeowner about how guns make the owners less safe. How she was able to protect herself, her family, and her house from not one, not two, but several intruders.

Friends in Louisiana sent me this story, they live in the same area as the lady in the article -

The homeowner said several men were at her front door dressed in hoods and carrying backpacks. When she met them at the door with a handgun, the suspects fled in an SUV that was parked in the bushes.

The vehicle contained several backpacks, masks, a large knife and marijuana.

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...eowner-thwarts-burglary-keithville/807781001/

 

[pmv]

Oh really? Why don't you ask this female homeowner about how guns make the owners less safe. How she was able to protect herself, her family, and her house from not one, not two, but several intruders.

Friends in Louisiana sent me this story, they live in the same area as the lady in the article -



http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...eowner-thwarts-burglary-keithville/807781001/

Yet cases like that are already included in the statistics that show on average guns make householders less safe. What's the point of citing one case, other than to try and appeal to pure emotion?

One could almost certainly dig up a counter-anecdote where some kid used daddy's gun to shoot their baby brother, say. But what's the point of trading anecdotes when there's real data?

 

[JSt0rm]

Yet cases like that are already included in the statistics that show on average guns make householders less safe. What's the point of citing one case, other than to try and appeal to pure emotion?

One could almost certainly dig up a counter-anecdote where some kid used daddy's gun to shoot their baby brother, say. But what's the point of trading anecdotes when there's real data?

because hes fucking stupid.

 

[Younigue]

Oh really? Why don't you ask this female homeowner about how guns make the owners less safe. How she was able to protect herself, her family, and her house from not one, not two, but several intruders.

Friends in Louisiana sent me this story, they live in the same area as the lady in the article -


http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...eowner-thwarts-burglary-keithville/807781001/

Always keeping it stupid svnny. Plug all your holes! You're in serious danger of your brain just plopping out.