Last Vegas strip shooting: More than 20 dead, 100 injured after gunman opens fire near Mandalay Bay

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Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
Have you seen that the guy who manufactured his ammo has been charged? Paddock was careful when he purchased this ammo and wore gloves to preserve the dealers fingerprints on the ammo. If I saw that I would immediately call the cops and explain what happened.

There's something very suspicious about this and I suspect that prosecutors see different angles as well. If your customer behaved in this manner wouldn't you become alarmed by it?

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/l...mmo-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-n844371
First of all, the story says Paddock was sold tracer ammo by the seller, not armor piercing which is what the seller got in trouble for selling over 100 orders of in several states. He didn't have a license to load AP rounds and that's why he's in trouble.

Tracer ammo, which is different than armor piercing ammo, has become popular just like explosive targets have with folks who like to see things light up and/or go boom. Lots of time they are used at twilight or after dark for the visuals. There were magazines found in Paddocks hotel room that were loaded with armor piercing ammo, but they didn't say anything about them being from the seller he bought the tracer ammo from and that they charged.

A box of 5.56 ammo is usually 20 rounds. So 720 rounds would have been 36 boxes of ammo in a large, heavy box, which I could totally see someone wearing a pair of gloves to protect their hands when picking up. Nothing suspicious. I probably would have done the same, as I have pretty soft hands. It's doubtful anything would have looked strange to the seller, surely nothing that would have made him call the cops as you suggest.

Each individual round is handled during the manufacturing process so the seller's fingerprints would have been all over them. Each round also has to be pressed in with a thumb when loaded into the magazines so Paddock's fingerprints, and the prints of his girlfriend too, who said she helped him load some of the magazines (though she knew nothing about his plans.) If the shooter was trying to keep his fingerprints off the ammo that would have been the time to wear gloves.

But, since he killed himself and made no effort to escape I'm guessing he planned this as a shooting/suicide and wasn't too worried about leaving fingerprints behind.

The cops just want the public to think their investigation is bearing fruit and stories like this make it look like they are, even if the arrest is pretty much unrelated to the Las Vegas shooting.
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
First of all, the story says Paddock was sold tracer ammo by the seller, not ammo piercing which is what the seller got in trouble for selling over 100 orders of in several states. He didn't have a license to load AP rounds and that's why he's in trouble.
I never said he purchased AP and being a former U.S. Army MP I'm quite familiar with how ammo of that caliber is packaged.
Each individual round is handled during the manufacturing process so the seller's fingerprints would have been all over them. Each round also has to be pressed in with a thumb when loaded into the magazines so Paddock's fingerprints, and the prints of his girlfriend too, who said she helped him load some of the magazines (though she knew nothing about his plans.) If the shooter was trying to keep his fingerprints off the ammo that would have been the time to wear gloves.

But, since he killed himself and made no effort to escape I'm guessing he planned this as a shooting/suicide and wasn't too worried about leaving fingerprints behind.
Since we can't interview him we simply don't know what his plans were and if they changed from inception to execution. I have never in my life put a pair of gloves to handle ammo not in a can nor in a box. A wooden crate with splinters would be a different story but they don't specify what the box construction was.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I’m curious what alleged “armor piercing” ammunition he’s supposedly made.
I'd like more information on that myself but the problem with him is he was making it to sell rather than for personal use.

It's an interesting question. It doesn't look like much of a crime if a person can buy the same thing OTC. I doubt Haig made his own bullets so he may not have been aware he needed a license to hand load them...
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
It's an interesting question. It doesn't look like much of a crime if a person can buy the same thing OTC. I doubt Haig made his own bullets so he may not have been aware he needed a license to hand load them...
I found this explanation at the Giffords Law Center and they expressly point out that manufacturing AP for handguns is illegal and that a license to sell ammo is not required but record keeping of the sales is. The NRA's site contains more detailed information on NV firearms laws.

Now I'm confused as the article clearly states rifle ammo as the issue but the law specifies ap handgun ammo as illegal.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/ammunition-regulation-in-nevada/
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/nevada/
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
I found this explanation at the Giffords Law Center and they expressly point out that manufacturing AP for handguns is illegal and that a license to sell ammo is not required but record keeping of the sales is. The NRA's site contains more detailed information on NV firearms laws.

Now I'm confused as the article clearly states rifle ammo as the issue but the law specifies ap handgun ammo as illegal.

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/ammunition-regulation-in-nevada/
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/nevada/

The issue isn't that the ammo is illegal but rather that Haig didn't have a license to manufacture & sell it. That's the way I read it. When I go to the ATF site, they make it clear that a license is required to sell reloaded ammo of any kind so the fact that it was AP may be immaterial to the govt case.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/person-who-reloads-ammunition-required-be-licensed-manufacturer
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
The issue isn't that the ammo is illegal but rather that Haig didn't have a license to manufacture & sell it. That's the way I read it. When I go to the ATF site, they make it clear that a license is required to sell reloaded ammo of any kind so the fact that it was AP may be immaterial to the govt case.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/person-who-reloads-ammunition-required-be-licensed-manufacturer
That's probably it then. I think he messed up when he sold across state lines which constitutes interstate commerce allowing the fed to step in and enforce their rules.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
That's probably it then. I think he messed up when he sold across state lines which constitutes interstate commerce allowing the fed to step in and enforce their rules.

It's what sometimes happens when people inadvertently open themselves up to heightened scrutiny. The Feds likely wouldn't have noticed Haig at all if not for his unwitting association with the shooter. I hope they let him plea to probation & a fine.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,297
352
126
Other reason to wear gloves is you don't want gunpowder and lead residue on your hands and don't have a place to wash your hands. If he was worried about fingerprints he could always just wipe it down....
 

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,040
4,802
136
Other reason to wear gloves is you don't want gunpowder and lead residue on your hands and don't have a place to wash your hands. If he was worried about fingerprints he could always just wipe it down....
All very true but we'll never know the true reason(s) since the shooter is dead.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
Just a reminder. Since this shooting about four months ago, more innocent victims have died from second hand smoke in that time than will die from all gun murders and accidents combined for the entire year. And the anti-2A left doesn't care about that, they only care about further limiting much less harmful guns... "to save lives".
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
84,812
49,500
136
Just a reminder. Since this shooting about four months ago, more innocent victims have died from second hand smoke in that time than will die from all innocent victims of gun murders and accidents combined for the entire year. And the anti-2A left doesn't care about that, they only care about further limiting much less harmful guns... "to save lives".

I love how you keep making this argument because that means we get to keep making fun of you for it.
 
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