So you agree that of those countries I listed, America has a similar violence problem. I mean okay, whatever. So our largest violence problem in this country is actually suicide not homicide... hmmm.....
They are both problems so I fail to see the point here?
Just the fact that I think with a handful of states having waiting periods on handguns exclusively, I would guess that if they had a disproportionately larger number of suicides by shotgun or rifle that everybody would point to that as an effective means of suicide prevention.
I disagree, I think they just don't try. Florida, Iowa, Maryland, and New Jersey have waiting periods for handgun purchases only. Why not dig into their suicide by firearm stats to see if there is a meaningful difference between handgun suicide and shotgun/rifle?
I think this isn't based on any actual knowledge of the composition of firearms used in suicide, the relative frequency, data quality, or effective research methods in the field. If you think there's a dataset that can be used to conduct this research please point it my way. Instead, you've decided that researchers are either lazy or bizarrely motivated not to look at it, which is once again coming back to impugning people's motives, something I already asked you to stop doing.
Have you considered that people find these bad effects from gun ownership because they are real, not because they are mysteriously against guns? I mean if you've gone back and read any of the research I've linked or just googled link between guns and suicide you'll see an avalanche of evidence. This isn't even a controversial topic, it's basically an accepted fact at this point.
Not a response to my question. Is buying a gun while suicidal, and being hit with a waiting period, considered an attempt? Isn't an attempt is when somebody fails and there is intervention. I won't disagree that intervening on a suicidal person is the absolute best way to stop somebody from successfully committing suicide. Which is why I believe the best way to stop suicide is to make it a mental health and health coverage issue and create a culture where it is okay to get help.
If you're looking to see how various researchers operationalize 'suicide attempt' it's all there in the literature.
Essentially what you are proposing is removing lethal means so there are more failed attempts, so there can then be interventions after a stomach is pumped or after some sort of hospital stay.
No, I'm saying that with less lethal means there will be more failed attempts and regardless of what is done afterwards the person is unlikely to attempt suicide again.
Looks like the VA is focusing primarily on outreach and intervention instead of firearm control. Prior military service is the highest indicator of suicide in the USA as far as I know.
https://www.va.gov/opa/publications...ention_factsheet_new_va_stats_070616_1400.pdf
This is incorrect. The VA identifies access to lethal means, specifically guns, as one of the things to look out for when considering if someone will commit suicide.
https://www.mirecc.va.gov/visn19/docs/A_Guide_for_Military_Veteran_Families.pdf
I didn't say that. I said research on the effectiveness of gun control measures on suicide by gun. For what it's worth, it should be a focus of suicide investigations or attempts. If somebody attempted, you should be able to check if they are on a waiting period for a gun and failed suicide using a method less lethal. If they committed suicide by a gun, how long have they owned the gun? Why is that not being focused on? There are approximately 1,000,000 suicide attempts each year in the USA, there is a lot of data that could be reported on that if we wanted to figure some of this stuff out.
Yes, there are hundreds of papers, perhaps thousands that can speak to the effectiveness of gun control on suicide in different ways. I've linked a bunch in this thread already. Have you read them?
There's been a ton of research on the link between firearm ownership and suicide. The link is very, very strong. If you want less suicide, lower firearm ownership levels.
I said gun control, not lethal means. Please don't tell me now in every gun control thread you are going to start bringing up lethal means of suicide. I can handle you bringing up suicide by firearm, but if you start bringing up cyanide or walking in front of trains every time there is a mass murder I think your acute focus on suicide prevention has gotten out of control.
Lethal means is the terminology suicide prevention groups use and almost all of them explicitly single out guns as the worst offender of all.
You are trying really, really hard to convince yourself that guns are not a large risk factor for suicide despite all evidence to the contrary. Why is this? Isn't it okay to accept that guns can be bad for people?