Last Vegas strip shooting: More than 20 dead, 100 injured after gunman opens fire near Mandalay Bay

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FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
And Trump would be all over it but nothing.

I considered this, and it is true that Trump would jump at the chance to blame ISIS for this whole fiasco.

The only conclusion I can come to, is the FBI have deemed it more important to capture Marilou Denley at the airport (and not spook her into fleeing) than it is to tell Trump immediately what the results of the investigation are. I believe that once they capture her they will inform Trump, then the public. I also do not believe the FBI are obligated to tell Trump the results of every investigation as soon as they appear.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,608
12,733
146
I think this a valid opinion to hold even if I don't entirely agree with it. It seems to me that at least some of the founders intended a personal right but that's based on my own interpretation. That said even recent decisions like Heller reinforce the idea that the 2A is not an absolute right, it can (and arguably should) be subject to restrictions. Unfortunately the only way to really test what the limits of what restrictions the court may deem acceptable would be to pass some laws. Given the interest/ability of the current Congress to even attend to the most routine business of the state I'm not suspecting that will happen real soon. If the GOP splits in the future, as it looks like will happen, there might be an opportunity.
If either party splits, and we either have a reform of one or a three party system, there will probably be a huge amount of 'renegotiation' on a lot of the commonly-accepted civil liberties/inherent rights. I'd wager what you're saying, the Republican party fractures, and we have a very strong nation-wide social push further left (which will still keep us on the right on the world stage), and several right-leaning social policies get left behind.
 
Reactions: K1052
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
What are you talking about? I think during my entire time on this forum I have linked RT once and after receiving complaints from many patriotic 'muricans like yourself I never linked them again.


I decided to go on RT to find the article you were talking about and I couldn't find anything. Could you please show me where on this site they said anything that I did? https://www.rt.com/usa/


My theories are my own. They are trademarked and obviously RT would be very interested in them, but sadly their are proprietary and not for sale.

Apologies if I am incorrect about you having an RT obsession I may have confused you with someone else but here is the implied link. I feel dirty after browsing RT

https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,831
34,770
136
If either party splits, and we either have a reform of one or a three party system, there will probably be a huge amount of 'renegotiation' on a lot of the commonly-accepted civil liberties/inherent rights. I'd wager what you're saying, the Republican party fractures, and we have a very strong nation-wide social push further left (which will still keep us on the right on the world stage), and several right-leaning social policies get left behind.

This is an accurate read on my thinking.
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Apologies if I am incorrect about you having an RT obsession I may have confused you with someone else but here is the implied link. I feel dirty after browsing RT

https://www.rt.com/usa/405409-isis-responsibility-vegas-shooting/

That article just says that ISIS claimed him as a "soldier of the caliphate". It doesn't speculate at all. There are other identical articles on VICE and others. See here:
https://news.vice.com/story/isis-claiming-las-vegas-has-terror-experts-confused


Funnily enough, the Fox News article comes closest to the kind of speculations I engaged in in my post... although they don't really say anything that I said specifically.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/0...ebts-theories-abound-for-shooters-motive.html


You should understand that while RT is Russian propaganda and is not reliable about anything in Russia or it's sphere of influence such as Ukraine (it is actually reliably unreliable), they are actually often more accurate than Fox and other about US interests.

This is another form of propaganda. Tell the truth about your enemies, so that when their media lies to their public, the public loses faith. It serves a specific purpose for RT to be truthful in their expositions of lies by the US media in that it makes people lose faith in those institutions while simultaneously giving RT more credibility. They then use this credibility to lie about Russia and Russian interests and thereby can fool people. They usually are more honest than US media about the US. I can understand why it would irk you though. A patriotic person would not like to see their country torn down by exposition whether they be truthful or not.

That said, you should be looking for truth in reporting and thus... RT should actually be a good source for news on american politics. Don't get me wrong... I know I won't change your mind, but you should still understand my argument here and possibly maybe you'll understand why somebody would read RT (amongst consumption of normal american and foreign media).
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
That article just says that ISIS claimed him as a "soldier of the caliphate". It doesn't speculate at all. There are other identical articles on VICE and others. See here:
https://news.vice.com/story/isis-claiming-las-vegas-has-terror-experts-confused


Funnily enough, the Fox News article comes closest to the kind of speculations I engaged in in my post... although they don't really say anything that I said specifically.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/0...ebts-theories-abound-for-shooters-motive.html


You should understand that while RT is Russian propaganda and is not reliable about anything in Russia or it's sphere of influence such as Ukraine (it is actually reliably unreliable), they are actually often more accurate than Fox and other about US interests.

This is another form of propaganda. Tell the truth about your enemies, so that when their media lies to their public, the public loses faith. It serves a specific purpose for RT to be truthful in their expositions of lies by the US media in that it makes people lose faith in those institutions while simultaneously giving RT more credibility.

That said, you should be looking for truth in reporting and thus... RT should actually be a good source for news on american politics. Don't get me wrong... I know I won't change your mind, but you should still understand my argument here and possibly maybe you'll understand why somebody would read RT (amongst consumption of normal american and foreign media).

No thanks I'll stick to fake free media
 

disappoint

Lifer
Dec 7, 2009
10,137
382
126
Could you please supply a link showing anyone at CNN or CBS suggesting that the victims deserved it because they are presumed to be conservatives? I''d like to see the exact words, and in context, please. It's quite an extraordinary claim, so proof is in order here.

https://www.google.com/search?clien.....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.327....0.lhoEzJviHMk

Snopes:
http://www.snopes.com/2017/10/02/cbs-fires-lawyer-facebook-comments-las-vegas-shooting/

Geftman-Gold wrote of the shooting, in which a man opened fire from the 32nd floor of the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino onto a crowd of country music concert attendees, killing more than 50 and wounding hundreds:

If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs will ever do the right thing, I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters.

In response to the comments, a CBS spokesperson told us:

This individual, who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families

Geftman-Gold had identified herself as a “vice president and senior counsel for strategic transactions at CBS Corporation,” according to her LinkedIn profile.

Thousands of people attended the Route 91 Harvest festival, a three-day country music festival. 58 people were killed when the gunman opened fire on the crowd below. The death toll surpassed the 2016 Pulse night club shooting in Orlando, Florida, in which 49 people were killed.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
31,808
10,343
136
thread is too far developed for me to multiquote a bazillion people. especially with many things still developing, there's only so much speculation i care to partake in. that being said

1) i won't be surprised if bump stocks get regulated/banned. yes they "technically" keep a semi-auto firearm semi-auto, but the intent is to make them more like an automatic without adding a sear (which would make them full auto and subject to regulation). honestly i don't see regulation and/or ban being unreasonable (of course it wouldn't stop the truly motivated, the same way with sears).

2) there is no such thing as a gun show loophole. there is regulation (or lack thereof) of private party sales. i have no problem with universal background checks, but in return NICS should be opened up to civilians, not just FFLs. it's the netflix/itunes issue - make something so ridiculously simple that people would be stupid not to use it. make NICS readily accessible, cheap, and user friendly, and most people will be happy to use it. going through dealers is a PITA.

don't punish law-abiding gun owners (which is most of them) and make being a criminal preferable (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-gun-registration-law-ruled-unconstitutional/)

3) i get the point behind waiting periods. i think they're a little silly, but a few days isn't totally unreasonable.

4) "large" is a subjective term. standard capacity for many rifles is 30. for pistols, might be 10-15 depending on the caliber. so what is "large", and is it universally applicable to pistols and rifles? and let's just say we nationally took the CA approach (10) or god help us NY (7...which no one makes a 7rd mag), why chance turning so many law abiding citizens into criminals? that's literally what this kind of law does. it offers little social benefit and punishes people who, up until that magical point, were perfectly law abiding citizens before.

5) most gun deaths in america come from suicides (roughly 2/3). as much as this is a gun problem, it also speaks to the poor state of mental healthcare in the US, both from an access and cultural standpoint (no one wants to admit they are dealing with mental health issues and appear as "crazy").

6) of the majority of gun homicides, most are committed with pistols. so trying to ban all or certain rifles isn't going to affect the majority of homicides. in other words, it would largely be a feel good measure and a waste of a large amount of time.

7) what makes a hunting rifle a hunting rifle? is a mini14 with a wood stock a hunting rifle, while a mini 14 in all black an "assault weapon"? as an example - https://t4.rbxcdn.com/bda833e7004a1220e08d38ab3fe46bef

i can most certainly hunt with my bolt-action 308, while many people use something like an AR15 in 223/556 for smaller game or, if you're in a rural place, hunting coyotes on farms and such. As best I can tell in quickly reading CA and TX hunting law, all centerfire cartridges are legal as long as they are not soft-nose/frangible/hollow point - this includes both 223 and 308.

Which one is considered the more dangerous firearm? like my AR15, my 308 has a detachable magazine but is bolt-action vs semi-auto. Does that make a difference? (in CA it does). The 308 round is significantly larger than a 223. Does that make a difference? The 308 round has a lower muzzle velocity (but maintains velocity better over long distances). Does that make a difference?

The point is, defining what is a "hunting rifle" and what is not is actually not straightforward at all, especially when there's arguably no reason why multiple types of rifles cannot be used to hunt different sizes/types of game.
-----------------------------

i won't say there is nothing we can do, but "prevent this from ever happening again" is not necessarily a health mentality either (example - mandating driver interlocks on all vehicles to discourage/prevent drunk driving accidents)


last but not least, i doubt any of the above will truly help heal the wounds of those who lost loved ones
 

Jmman

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 1999
5,302
0
76
Crazy weekend. I flew home from Vegas about an hour before the shooting started. Too close for comfort.......
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
It serves a specific purpose for RT to be truthful in their expositions of lies by the US media in that it makes people lose faith in those institutions while simultaneously giving RT more credibility.
Until whatever highly targeted instances they decide to not be truthful for whatever reason. At best they're another source you can compare against everything else and ask yourself if it's BS state propaganda.
 
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Reactions: Fanatical Meat

Puffnstuff

Lifer
Mar 9, 2005
16,037
4,800
136
One more of these, kid, an you're going on ignore. It's not my problem that you cannot justify your own religious beliefs, even to yourself.
Each time you post as the final authority on my country you only let the cat out of the bag that you're some snotty nosed brat using google search in a lame attempt to debase America. Truth is my children are probably older than you are and much better behaved as well. Have a nice day.
 
Reactions: Capt Caveman
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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Feb 4, 2009
34,703
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Until whatever highly targeted instances they decide to not be truthful for whatever reason. At best their another source you can compare against everything else and ask yourself if it's BS state propaganda.

Please post this again so I can like it twice. Younger guys (no insult intended) are much more used to searching and trusting the internet for news. Again not intended to be an insult, just saying it's something I've learned
 

FIVR

Diamond Member
Jun 1, 2016
3,753
911
106
Until whatever highly targeted instances they decide to not be truthful for whatever reason. At best their another source you can compare against everything else and ask yourself if it's BS state propaganda.

It only works insofar as American media is itself propaganda. If the US media was more reliable and didn't engage in so much obvious propaganda, especially about US foreign policy, RT would look ridiculous to everyone. Sadly, because US media refuses to address many issues honestly, RT continues to gain popularity here.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
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He was an IRS agent in the 1970s and the 1980's !
Does that count ?
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/...-vegas-shooter-worked-letter-carrier-50262439

"Federal spokeswoman says Las Vegas shooter worked as letter carrier, IRS agent for nearly a decade in 1970s and '80s.

No but the letter carrier part may.
Now a more serious point, please start reading other news sources but stormfront and Alex Jones need to be avoided too. Other conservative leaning news is fine provided they don't take content from RT, Stormfront or Alex Jones.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,803
581
126
It only works insofar as American media is itself propaganda. If the US media was more reliable and didn't engage in so much obvious propaganda, especially about US foreign policy, RT would look ridiculous to everyone. Sadly, because US media refuses to address many issues honestly, RT continues to gain popularity here.
No argument there.
 
Jul 9, 2009
10,723
2,064
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No but the letter carrier part may.
Now a more serious point, please start reading other news sources but stormfront and Alex Jones need to be avoided too. Other conservative leaning news is fine provided they don't take content from RT, Stormfront or Alex Jones.
I've never read stormfront, never even seen it . Never intentionally read alex jones. I'm glad you have taken the time to let me know what news sites I am allowed to look at or link to. You are just so kind.

Authoritarian much?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
I've never read stormfront, never even seen it . Never intentionally read alex jones. I'm glad you have taken the time to let me know what news sites I am allowed to look at or link to. You are just so kind.

Authoritarian much?

No I care about you, you meddle in dangerous currents.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
It looks as if his girlfriend is now a "person of interest" Sorry, the only link I have is to the unreliable and biased "The Guardian"
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...end-marilou-danley-person-of-interest-sheriff


*EDIT*
http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/03/breaking-las-vegas-shooters-girlfriend-is-now-person-of-interest/
Well, you shouldn't have to be told tajjy. Common sense and common decency should kick in at some point but mouthbreathers often get in The [Dense] Zone. I assume drooling is involved in your case? Any way, you make it abundantly clear that the only thing common you're interested in is being a common moron. Keep on keepin' it dumb taj! You give the impression of someone who believes it's his only gift to bestow upon the world.
 
Reactions: Capt Caveman

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,138
5,074
136
Fair enough, you may not have been spooled up on various positions taken during the last 50 pages. Increased focus on mental health research has been brought up more than once (and not just by me) alongside some much needed societal concentration research, to make inroads into some of the urban firearm crime we have in more concentrated areas in the US. Most of this thread has been relatively civil, with (in my opinion at least) very few extremist positions of 'take all the guns' or 'fuck you they're my guns'. Most have taken at least an interest in middle grounds, through increased legislation toward specific law-skirting aspects of current gun ownership laws, as well as aforementioned increased focus on mental health issues.

I was probably a bit reactionary to your post initially, as I've been relatively active in this thread, and your initial posts were a smidge on the 'all is lost unless we take the guns' side. I apologize for that.

I took no offense and could understand why you may have taken my post a certain way.
I also appreciate the response
 
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