LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

What would people like to see on the lcdresource.com website (e.g. something that can't exist on FuseTalk forum posts)?

 

[AndeeG]

Are you still reccomending the 2007wfp? I saw that it's been moved down your "multimedia" list a bit. People have seemed pretty positive about it in a lot of forums and sites that I've seen. Is the so-called "panel lottery" a problem in the US? I remember reading that dell has only started to sell the s-pva panel in the rest of the world.

 

[xtknight]

The Matrix of all Matrices

A (table?) is worth a million words.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AndeeG
Are you still reccomending the 2007wfp? I saw that it's been moved down your "multimedia" list a bit. People have seemed pretty positive about it in a lot of forums and sites that I've seen. Is the so-called "panel lottery" a problem in the US? I remember reading that dell has only started to sell the s-pva panel in the rest of the world.

Sure, the 2007WFP is a great LCD for the price (true 8-bit, high contrast and what not). It's just not better than the ones rated above it. The panel lottery changes things up a little bit but that's still a great price for an S-PVA anyway. You're not going to get anything else as good as an S-PVA 2007WFP for that price.

 

[xtknight]

By tomorrow I should have a lot more added to the recommendations list for Office Work (need 21.3", 17", cheaper 19" there). And, in LCD terms, office work is the same as programming.

I realize that most of the LCDs up there are >$300 so I'm going to try and add some <$300 ones (I like to call them the 'last resorts').

 

[Zelphar]

Firstly, thanks for this thread.

I see you've changed the format of the listings quite drastically, and that the NEC MultiSync LCD2070NX, for example, has been dropped completely. Has it been superceded by the HP LP2065? Also, how does the HP LP2065 fare at gaming? Or should I try for an NEC 20WMGX2? I'd be faced with importing it myself, as the sole NEC distributor in South Africa charges around 150% markup on the US$ price.

My priorities are office work tied with watching movies, then gaming just below those, with photo editing a nice-to-have (So basically, I want a monitor that's good/great at everything. ;P ). Edit: Forgot to say, I'd prefer a 1600x1200 panel over a comparable widescreen one. Or should I opt for a lower resolution in favour of a faster update speed (DVI does 1600x1200 at 60Hz)?

Thanks.

 

[DustyNL]

xtknight thx for the comment.
I indeed like the Samsung 215TW, because of the color quality/contrast/design.
However after some research I found out some people reporting "input lag" on this monitor when playing fast FPS games. Can you confirm this, or does anyone have experience with this effect? I dont play fast games very often, but I do play games like splintercell or battlefield which would also require a descend respons (don't they?).

edit another question, does the 215TW support 1280x1024 resolution?
So with black bars on the sides and on top/downside. Or does it stretch vertically?

thx. greetz

 

[eeric]

Originally posted by: xtknight
What would people like to see on the lcdresource.com website (e.g. something that can't exist on FuseTalk forum posts)?

Hey xtknight, I got an idea that could improve the website (or at least make me very happy), since I'm about to receive my first LCD (dell 2007wfp) within the next day or two.

A section on what to do when you get a new LCD would be great. I know there are the calibration/tests up there, but a complete guide for a newcomer to LCDs. How to check for dead pixels, backlight bleeding, etc., what we're looking for in those calibration tests like the gradient test, banding effects, and all that. Maybe if you had more time, set it up so users could post their results in the form of a rating for each category to obtain lots of sample points for each model of LCD out there.

Oh, and maybe part of it could be a guide to tweaking your LCD in terms of colour/brightness/contrast etc.

(if u could also post a quick guide for me on what to do when i get my dell that'd be great too lol) Thx!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Zelphar
Firstly, thanks for this thread.

Welcome to the forums.

I see you've changed the format of the listings quite drastically, and that the NEC MultiSync LCD2070NX, for example, has been dropped completely. Has it been superceded by the HP LP2065? Also, how does the HP LP2065 fare at gaming? Or should I try for an NEC 20WMGX2?

The HP LP2065 is the same thing as the LCD2070NX with a newer panel and lower cost so there's little reason to have the LCD2070NX up there in my mind. Granted, NEC is a great brand, but so is HP so I'm not really worried about that aspect.

I think both the LP2065 and LCD2070NX reach ~18-25 ms, so for gaming they'd be average but not better than that. If you didn't game that often I doubt it'd bother you. Why does the frequency of gaming matter? The less you play the more you're willing to put up with (that's how I am, at least).

I'd be faced with importing it myself, as the sole NEC distributor in South Africa charges around 150% markup on the US$ price.

lol that sounds like fun. Well yes I would recommend the 20WMGX2 over the LP2065 by a huge margin for gaming, but you might be just fine with the LP2065.

My priorities are office work tied with watching movies, then gaming just below those, with photo editing a nice-to-have (So basically, I want a monitor that's good/great at everything. ;P ). Edit: Forgot to say, I'd prefer a 1600x1200 panel over a comparable widescreen one. Or should I opt for a lower resolution in favour of a faster update speed (DVI does 1600x1200 at 60Hz)?

Thanks.

If you can't get the 20WMGX2, don't stress over it...the LP2065 is a great panel too (or if you like NEC, the LCD2070NX). But the 20WMGX2 is out of this world for image quality.

You would be stuck with 60 Hz at every resolution as far as I know (for the 20WMGX2 that is, but other LCDs allow higher refresh rates at lower res). Lower resolutions just make the pixels work harder to update (there are multiple pixels mapped to one in a low-res config). The higher refresh rate might make it more bearable but the image quality (for anything half-precise) is poor/blurry on LCDs at lower resolutions. I would never use a lower resolution than native on an LCD. Text gives me eye strain like crazy, and besides with DPI adjustments it doesn't make sense for text. It looks good to begin with, but even the slightest inconsistencies in the blurring algorithm kill my eyes.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DustyNL
xtknight thx for the comment.
I indeed like the Samsung 215TW, because of the color quality/contrast/design.
However after some research I found out some people reporting "input lag" on this monitor when playing fast FPS games. Can you confirm this, or does anyone have experience with this effect? I dont play fast games very often, but I do play games like splintercell or battlefield which would also require a descend respons (don't they?).

I assumed the case was the same with the 2407 (the majority doesn't notice it). I doubt that it's worse on the 215TW. I am aware of that though, but it has amazing image quality, and the input lag wouldn't matter for movies unless it was drastic (>100 ms). It's probably around 50 ms. at the worst but I can't confirm that (I've never seen one measured worse than 60 ms.) I would never ever put it in the fastest gaming section without it being thoroughly reviewed for that aspect. I will add something about it to the Notes for the 215TW.

edit another question, does the 215TW support 1280x1024 resolution?
So with black bars on the sides and on top/downside. Or does it stretch vertically?

Yes, the 215TW's internal scaler can interpolate from 1280x1024. Any GPU should be able to as well.

If you want centered mode, NVIDIA (and perhaps Intel) GPUs can do it. ATIs can not, to this day.

215TW Manual

Apparently, for DVI, you can do "Wide" or "4:3" mode. I assume wide means scale it to the native resolution, and 4:3 means insert one set of black bars (aspect ratio scaling, not centered mode). The other inputs have some more options.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric

Originally posted by: xtknight
What would people like to see on the lcdresource.com website (e.g. something that can't exist on FuseTalk forum posts)?

Hey xtknight, I got an idea that could improve the website (or at least make me very happy), since I'm about to receive my first LCD (dell 2007wfp) within the next day or two.

A section on what to do when you get a new LCD would be great. I know there are the calibration/tests up there, but a complete guide for a newcomer to LCDs. How to check for dead pixels, backlight bleeding, etc., what we're looking for in those calibration tests like the gradient test, banding effects, and all that. Maybe if you had more time, set it up so users could post their results in the form of a rating for each category to obtain lots of sample points for each model of LCD out there.

Oh, and maybe part of it could be a guide to tweaking your LCD in terms of colour/brightness/contrast etc.

(if u could also post a quick guide for me on what to do when i get my dell that'd be great too lol) Thx!

That would be a great idea. I'd love to do that, however a feedback system would be unfeasible (I suck at php and most of these tests are rather qualitative and opinionated no matter how hard you try to describe what to look for, and you get people defending their purchase, etc ). If at all possible I'll try it sooner or later just for the hell of it, but I'm not going to put that much faith in the responses. But if 10 people give LCD x from manufacturer y a 1/5 on the response time test then I'll listen.

I'll also mention what to do with the dynamic contrast/ACM settings on some LCDs like the Dell (disable them/put them in standard/desktop mode for these tests).

 

[eeric]

Yea the rating thing was more of an extra.

Maybe also a section with a list of every LCD and a summary (similar to the first page of this thread), where users can comment underneath with reviews and known problems, like a mini-forum. That way you also wouldn't have to answer the same few questions about the same few LCDs all the time (not that its a bad thing ).

*edit* what i meant was a page for each lcd model

 

[AndeeG]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: AndeeG
Are you still reccomending the 2007wfp? I saw that it's been moved down your "multimedia" list a bit. People have seemed pretty positive about it in a lot of forums and sites that I've seen. Is the so-called "panel lottery" a problem in the US? I remember reading that dell has only started to sell the s-pva panel in the rest of the world.

Sure, the 2007WFP is a great LCD for the price (true 8-bit, high contrast and what not). It's just not better than the ones rated above it. The panel lottery changes things up a little bit but that's still a great price for an S-PVA anyway. You're not going to get anything else as good as an S-PVA 2007WFP for that price.

The S-IPS is considered a superior panel, correct? If I order from the dell website and receive an S-PVA can I complain and exchange it until I get an S-IPS?

 

[eeric]

I like the new look of the site xtknight, looks really professional with that colour scheme now.

 

[niall]

xtknight: very nice job on redoing the guide and the website! Still as clear and informative, but updated.

I second eeric's idea of "What to do now that you have an LCD for the first time" type of article. The feedback options are secondary.

The matrix of matrices is also great - but "medicore"?

Two days til I get, well, a delivery notice for my 2007WFP. I received the invoice yesterday, and nearly choked when I saw "Dell UltraSharp 2007FP" jumping at me - immediately followed by "Wide Flat Panel". Whew. I doubt I'll actually get it Thursday, since I won't be home to sign for it, and will have to find a way to get it from the nearest office of whatever shipper Dell uses. At least I made sure to check that its resolution was listed in my graphic card's options; this Asus GeForce4Ti4800SE is a wonderful little thing.

 

[im2good4u]

can anyone post for a review of the dell E207WFP, or the conclusion of that review. im really aiming for this one so any thoughts is really much appreciated

 

[DustyNL]

hmz this isn't making the choice any easier
I was convinced of the samsung 215TW, but this input lag disturbs me though.
Makes me consider alternatives. I know the NEC would be good, however I don't like the glossy coat on the screen (I have experience with glossy screen on my laptop), too much reflection for my taste. Second alternative would be Dell 2007WFP, but with this one there's no way to know which panel it will have Furthermore the 2007WFP isn't too good for movie's because of blacklight/uniformity
Are there any users on the forum who have experience with the 215TW and can tell me how bad this input really is?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: eeric
I like the new look of the site xtknight, looks really professional with that colour scheme now.

Yeah, I didn't care for the dark that much myself.

I have been pondering the idea of adding a page per LCD but I just haven't gotten around to it.

Originally posted by: AndeeG
The S-IPS is considered a superior panel, correct? If I order from the dell website and receive an S-PVA can I complain and exchange it until I get an S-IPS?

Yes and yes.

Originally posted by: niall
xtknight: very nice job on redoing the guide and the website! Still as clear and informative, but updated.

I second eeric's idea of "What to do now that you have an LCD for the first time" type of article. The feedback options are secondary.

The matrix of matrices is also great - but "medicore"?

Fixed.

Two days til I get, well, a delivery notice for my 2007WFP. I received the invoice yesterday, and nearly choked when I saw "Dell UltraSharp 2007FP" jumping at me - immediately followed by "Wide Flat Panel". Whew. I doubt I'll actually get it Thursday, since I won't be home to sign for it, and will have to find a way to get it from the nearest office of whatever shipper Dell uses. At least I made sure to check that its resolution was listed in my graphic card's options; this Asus GeForce4Ti4800SE is a wonderful little thing.

 

[im2good4u]

i'm a noob in LCD and wondering if its advisable to run my games lower than the native resolution of the LCD? it seems i wont be able to run my games at 1680x1050 and will have to run them lower than that. is there a big difference?

 

[Vortex22]

Just got my 2007FPW and I checked out the black level test on your site, xtknight. I can see a difference up to the 7,7,7 mark. Is this decent? I'm running the monitor and my video card (x1950pro) at basically default settings right now.

 

[amking]

just got my 2007wfp and i'm fairly disappointed with the monitors performance with light colors, specifically white - it looks "fuzzy/grainy/dirty" ..or it has "sploches" instead of a more uniform/solid white (this doesnt happen with the darker colors). dell is having this sort of problem with all their consumer notebooks as well, and it is magnified when the glossy coatings are applied. in the notebooks, this is notoriously a problem with the samsung panels that dell seems to using almost exclusively now (i even read somewhere that dell and lg had ended their contract and dell was just going to be using the grade b samsung panels... i have no source tho other than someone's forum post, but my recent dealings with their tech support and trying to get an lg panel for my new notebook ended with them saying "we dont have lg panels anymore" (or at this time?)).

ANYWAY... back to the 2007wfp. otherwise it is an absolutely fabulous monitor, in terms of looks, ergonomics, functionality... and price - after tax and coupons it was @ a little over $300. sad that the monitor is so amazing, but fails at doing its primary purpose. my roommates didnt even notice the "sploches" until i pointed it out to them... and then they noticed them constantly after that. enough of that i guess... i would like to know tho if other 2007wfp owners have experienced this issue at all.

i am now looking at the nec 20WMGX2-BK instead, which is a LOT more, but apparently the best 20.1" ws out there in terms of performance/panel/etc. while i shop around, can you guys answer or comment on the following things:

-does the nec display any sort of similar issue that i described with the dell? ("dirtyness" with lighter colors)

-is there a similar less expensive model out there in the 20.1" arena that has a great panel, but doesnt come with a tv tuner? (at this point i really dont feel like the tv tuner is worth it for me)

-if after looking @ the 20WMGX2 in my local big box store i am impressed and want to buy one online (after returning my 2007wfp), where do you recommend buying from? (i am mainly concerned with price + return policy since i may end up going back to the dell if the nec truly isnt worth it... i heard newegg is sort of lame with the return policy overall, er maybe that was in regard to dead pixels).


any and all feedback is appreciated.. sorry this got longer than i intended.

 

[amking]

how does the LCD2070WNX compare to the 20WMGX2?

nevermind... google is your friend. damn TNs.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: amking
just got my 2007wfp and i'm fairly disappointed with the monitors performance with bright colors, specifically white - it looks "fuzzy/grainy/dirty" ..or it has "sploches" instead of a more uniform/solid white (this doesnt happen with the darker colors). dell is having this sort of problem with all their consumer notebooks as well, and it is magnified when the glossy coatings are applied. in the notebooks, this is notoriously a problem with the samsung panels that dell seems to using almost exclusively now (i even read somewhere that dell and lg had ended their contract and dell was just going to be using the grade b samsung panels... i have no source tho other than someone's forum post, but my recent dealings with their tech support and trying to get an lg panel for my new notebook ended with them saying "we dont have lg panels anymore" (or at this time?)).

ANYWAY... back to the 2007wfp. otherwise it is an absolutely fabulous monitor, in terms of looks, ergonomics, functionality... and price - after tax and coupons i was @ a little over $300. sad that the monitor is so amazing, but fails at doing its primary purpose. my roomates didnt even notice the "sploches" until i pointed it out to them... and then they noticed them constantly after that. enough of that i guess... i would like to know tho if other 2007wfp owners have experienced this issue at all.

i am now looking at the nec 20WMGX2-BK instead, which is a LOT more, but apparently the best 20.1" ws out there in terms of performance/panel/etc. while i shop around, can you guys answer or comment on the following things:

-does the nec display any sort of similar issue that i described with the dell? ("dirtyness" with lighter colors)

-is there a similar less expensive model out there in the 20.1" arena that has a great panel, but doesnt come with a tv tuner? (at this point i really dont feel like the tv tuner is worth it for me)

-if after looking @ the 20WMGX2 in my local big box store i am impressed and want to buy one online (after returning my 2007wfp), where do you recommend buying from? (i am mainly concerned with price + return policy since i may end up going back to the dell if the nec truly isnt worth it... i heard newegg is sort of lame with the return policy overall, er maybe that was in regard to dead pixels).


any and all feedback is appreciated.. sorry this got longer than i intended.

I don't notice any splotches on mine either. Is there a certain website or something that would make them stand out so I can test? Also, is there any way to determine what panel you have?

Edit: I found out how to look at the service menu, but mine says something different than what most people are saying to look for. At the top it says V1B18 in the left corner and RT803 in the right. Anyone know what panel that is?

 

[amking]

the only way i can suggest you test it is by pulling up what should otherwise be a clear bright white screen... so a notepad/ms office/other text editor should work just fine. my understanding is some people don't see it at all, and others just have a better panel - hence the "panel lottery"

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: amking
the only way i can suggest you test it is by pulling up what should otherwise be a clear bright white screen... so a notepad/ms office/other text editor should work just fine. my understanding is some people don't see it at all, and others just have a better panel - hence the "panel lottery"

I did some more searching, and it looks like I lucked out and got the S-IPS panel. Apprently Dell changed the service menu with revision 3 so people would stop looking up their panel types and trying to return the monitors when they got the PVA. Dark images have a purple tinge when viewed at extreme angles on my screen, and that's apparently indicative of S-IPS. On an unrelated note, mine also has no dead pixels and I haven't really noticed any back light bleeding, although I'm probably not the best at spotting stuff like that since I'm coming from a CRT.