LCD Buyer's Guide

[eeric]

Originally posted by: amking
the only way i can suggest you test it is by pulling up what should otherwise be a clear bright white screen... so a notepad/ms office/other text editor should work just fine. my understanding is some people don't see it at all, and others just have a better panel - hence the "panel lottery"

assuming from your avatar you're from the US, i thought north america only got S-IPS panels.... this makes me nervous... my 2007wfp is on the delivery truck and i pick it up later today. (i'm in canada, not sure if that makes a difference)

 

[a123456]

Originally posted by: eeric
assuming from your avatar you're from the US, i thought north america only got S-IPS panels.... this makes me nervous... my 2007wfp is on the delivery truck and i pick it up later today. (i'm in canada, not sure if that makes a difference)

I'm not sure where Farmerjohn is from, but he just got a monitor that looks suspicious like a PVA for his 2007WFP and the panel code is new.

 

[rhaath]

xtknight, you've done a great job with all of the info you've accumulated. Thank you! I've learned more about LCD's in 10 minutes on your site than I have anywhere else.

I have a question for you.

I've just won an Xbox 360, and I would like to know your opinion on which lcd monitor would be a good choice for the system. I will only be using the monitor for the xbox and any future consoles (PS3, etc.,). It will not be used for my PC and it will only be used for gaming. Price is only a minor concern (within reason, nothing over $1000) and I'd prefer the monitor to be over 20". Could you possibly list your top three choices? I apologize if this has been answered before.

Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work.

 

[amking]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Dark images have a purple tinge when viewed at extreme angles on my screen, and that's apparently indicative of S-IPS.

well, my 2007wfp has that "purple tinge" when looking @ dark colors from an extreme angle... so i'm guessing its an s-ips. however, after visiting my local big box retailer today and looking at various desktop and laptop lcds, i can say that i only see the "fuzziness/graininess/dirtiness" with light/white backgrounds on the samsung panels i have had (and some in the stores)... which is frustrating because thats what dell appears to be using almost exclusively now (b grade samsung panels). this is less of a problem for me with the 20.1" desktop lcd b/c i'm now seriously considering the 20WMGX2... but with the laptops its literally pure luck, and getting a good panel in a $1000 notebook is really like winning the lottery. >:[

Originally posted by: Vortex22
I don't notice any splotches on mine either. Is there a certain website or something that would make them stand out so I can test?

the way easiest way for me to notice it on an lcd is to open up ms word/notepad/etc and then get decently close the screen to check the uniformity of the color. even at medium to normal viewing distances, the "unevenness" of the color will show. it essentially looks fuzzy or dirty to me.. almost as if there is a film of dirt/dust on the screen. again, a lot of people dont notice it, but then a number of people do... it just depends on the person. this doesnt happen for me on dark or mixed screens really, just on the light/white areas.

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: amking

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Dark images have a purple tinge when viewed at extreme angles on my screen, and that's apparently indicative of S-IPS.

well, my 2007wfp has that "purple tinge" when looking @ dark colors from an extreme angle... so i'm guessing its an s-ips. however, after visiting my local big box retailer today and looking at various desktop and laptop lcds, i can say that i only see the "fuzziness/graininess/dirtiness" with light/white backgrounds on the samsung panels i have had (and some in the stores)... which is frustrating because thats what dell appears to be using almost exclusively now (b grade samsung panels). this is less of a problem for me with the 20.1" desktop lcd b/c i'm now seriously considering the 20WMGX2... but with the laptops its literally pure luck, and getting a good panel in a $1000 notebook is really like winning the lottery. >:[

Originally posted by: Vortex22
I don't notice any splotches on mine either. Is there a certain website or something that would make them stand out so I can test?

the way easiest way for me to notice it on an lcd is to open up ms word/notepad/etc and then get decently close the screen to check the uniformity of the color. even at medium to normal viewing distances, the "unevenness" of the color will show. it essentially looks fuzzy or dirty to me.. almost as if there is a film of dirt/dust on the screen. again, a lot of people dont notice it, but then a number of people do... it just depends on the person. this doesnt happen for me on dark or mixed screens really, just on the light/white areas.

If you haven't already, take a look at the service menu on your 2007wfp. Turn off the monitor, hold down the menu and + buttons and power it back on while holding them. Once it's back on, release them and press the - button. Look at the top of the menu for the code and post it here.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: rhaath
xtknight, you've done a great job with all of the info you've accumulated. Thank you! I've learned more about LCD's in 10 minutes on your site than I have anywhere else.

I have a question for you.

I've just won an Xbox 360, and I would like to know your opinion on which lcd monitor would be a good choice for the system. I will only be using the monitor for the xbox and any future consoles (PS3, etc.,). It will not be used for my PC and it will only be used for gaming. Price is only a minor concern (within reason, nothing over $1000) and I'd prefer the monitor to be over 20". Could you possibly list your top three choices? I apologize if this has been answered before.

Thanks in advance, and keep up the great work.

Wait for a good deal on a 1080p 32" LCD TV...you should be able to get a Westinghouse for less than $1000 during a good week.

 

[amking]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
If you haven't already, take a look at the service menu on your 2007wfp. Turn off the monitor, hold down the menu and + buttons and power it back on while holding them. Once it's back on, release them and press the - button. Look at the top of the menu for the code and post it here.

V1B18 and RT803

 

[Vortex22]

Originally posted by: amking

Originally posted by: Vortex22
If you haven't already, take a look at the service menu on your 2007wfp. Turn off the monitor, hold down the menu and + buttons and power it back on while holding them. Once it's back on, release them and press the - button. Look at the top of the menu for the code and post it here.

V1B18 and RT803

That's the same as mine, and everywhere I've read says that those numbers indicate a S-IPS panel.

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Just got my 2007WFP delivered yesterday. It's a revision A03, made in Mexico in Sept. of '06, V1B18, RT803, and it shipped from Nashville, TN. Like Vortex and others have stated, this should be a S-IPS panel. It would be nice to know for sure but I'm not ready to tear 360 plus dollar monitor apart just to find out and as this is my first LCD it looks FANTASTIC to me! Hopefully this will help others. If anyone gets brave enough to pop the front bezel off, let us know what you find.

Now, is there a guide anywhere on how to properly set the brightness, contrast, etc? I tried the "Test your black level!" from xtknight's site and it looks the same to me all over. Is this right?

 

[a123456]

I'd probably also be interested in a "How to set your settings correctly for Complete Dummies" guide.

The black level looks black and starts getting different around (7,7,7).

I also got a 2007WFP, A03, Mexico, RT803, probable S-IPS panel shipped from somewhere in the USA. Don't even ask about the purple black from an angle. I can't tell those things. No dead/stuck pixels, so I'm pretty happy. It's tons brighter and does colors better than my old 2000FP based on the gradient tests. I didn't see any signs of banding in Desktop mode and that's good enough for me. No ghosting that I could tell, but I don't play FPS or any of that really. Seems new based on the time used.

Overall, I'm happy. Thanks for the recommendation, xtknight.

 

[eeric]

Yup, I just got my 2007WFP, rev. A02, S-IPS panel (LPL LM201W01). The purpleness is apparent at an angle too, which confirms it. No dead pixels. Yea, I also wanna know exactly how to determine the "test your black level" results... i can sort of start seeing outlines at (9,9,9) and (10,10,10) but nothing below that. How to check for backlight bleeding and banding? tia.

 

[xtknight]

My "After Getting your LCD" article is up.

 

[a123456]

Thanks for the article. It's pretty helpful.

About the black tests, if I turn off the lights, I can't differentiate anymore, which probably means my eyesight is shot. On my 2000FP, I start seeing differences starting at (2,2,2).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: amking
just got my 2007wfp and i'm fairly disappointed with the monitors performance with light colors, specifically white - it looks "fuzzy/grainy/dirty" ..or it has "sploches" instead of a more uniform/solid white (this doesnt happen with the darker colors). dell is having this sort of problem with all their consumer notebooks as well, and it is magnified when the glossy coatings are applied. in the notebooks, this is notoriously a problem with the samsung panels that dell seems to using almost exclusively now (i even read somewhere that dell and lg had ended their contract and dell was just going to be using the grade b samsung panels... i have no source tho other than someone's forum post, but my recent dealings with their tech support and trying to get an lg panel for my new notebook ended with them saying "we dont have lg panels anymore" (or at this time?)).

You must be talking about panel uniformity. It is indeed one of Dell's problems (QC) and I take this into account when recommending their LCDs. This occurs on every color, not just white. Though it is more noticeable on some than others. That's not to say I don't recommend Dell LCDs, because frankly, most people don't notice the issue and they're excellent in every other way. Most LCDs do have issues here and there. I can't say I was aware that the problem was so bad you could see it on white; I thought it was mainly black screens that were ugly. There must be quite a bit of luminance variation across the panel, and in dense distribution at that.

i am now looking at the nec 20WMGX2-BK instead, which is a LOT more, but apparently the best 20.1" ws out there in terms of performance/panel/etc. while i shop around, can you guys answer or comment on the following things:

-does the nec display any sort of similar issue that i described with the dell? ("dirtyness" with lighter colors)

Lighter colors are smooth and pure on the 20WMGX2. You'd be amazed at how uniform the screen is. It does have a glossy coating, and this increases the vibrancy of the lighter tones. But it can't magnify a problem (ununiformity) that doesn't exist. I can say with confidence that my unit is the best LCD I've ever used, especially in uniformity. It's possible I got an exceptionally good one. I did notice that it had seeping when I got it, but over time as pressure on the panel is released, it remedies itself. This has occurred for tons of NEC owners. Since the brightness needs to be low on the NEC for a good calibration, that helps as well.

-is there a similar less expensive model out there in the 20.1" arena that has a great panel, but doesnt come with a tv tuner? (at this point i really dont feel like the tv tuner is worth it for me)

The NEC LCD20WGX2 in Europe is the same thing without the TV tuner and some of the inputs (unfortunately HDCP is also sacrificed). I actually don't know of any other decent 20" wide S-IPS LCDs. S-IPS panels are relatively rare. As you say, the LCD2070WNX is a TN.

-if after looking @ the 20WMGX2 in my local big box store i am impressed and want to buy one online (after returning my 2007wfp), where do you recommend buying from? (i am mainly concerned with price + return policy since i may end up going back to the dell if the nec truly isnt worth it... i heard newegg is sort of lame with the return policy overall, er maybe that was in regard to dead pixels).

I don't know. I got mine from Newegg and it arrived with no dead pixels, just like every LCD I've ordered from them. (It still has no dead pixels BTW.) You take up any problems with NEC (they say with a note in the box, DO NOT RETURN THE DEFECTIVE LCD to the store). NEC has very generous support. DasFox had some problems with his unit. Here's his experience with NEC support (see end of thread).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: im2good4u
i'm a noob in LCD and wondering if its advisable to run my games lower than the native resolution of the LCD? it seems i wont be able to run my games at 1680x1050 and will have to run them lower than that. is there a big difference?

Not really. Lower resolutions significantly reduce quality. For LCDs, it's always best to use lower texture quality/filtering settings at native resolution.

Originally posted by: Vortex22
Just got my 2007FPW and I checked out the black level test on your site, xtknight. I can see a difference up to the 7,7,7 mark. Is this decent? I'm running the monitor and my video card (x1950pro) at basically default settings right now.

It's the same as I can see on my NEC after calibration. It's fairly decent, but I think the panel our LCDs use is known for having trouble displaying the first few. Oddly enough details in the dark are still great. If you can see all the dark grays differently and have no other color problems with the same settings you have a damn good LCD. Most can't. I just made the test to track how well LCDs were coming along since this is the key area they lose against CRTs in. I like to expose the flaws of LCDs. Once I see an improvement I will let people know.

 

[niall]

Got mine today too! Like eeric, it's a V1B11 LPL LM201W01 - looks like Canada still has some A02s. I think I can see the "splotchy" white that amking is talking about - but I would attribute it simply to the LCD technology and/or the panel surface. This isn't glass, it's not going to be a smooth white?.. that's the way I see it. Since it's not meant to be looked at from my nose inches away from the monitor, I don't give it much pause.

And this time I actually do see something at the black level test page! Yay! The lowest I can distinguish is a very very faint 7,7,7, though 10,10,10 is the clearest distinctive. I don't see any coloured or white pixels in there, or any black or coloured pixels in the blank notepad document. No dead pixels, I'd wager.

The LCD New Owner Guide is perfectly timed! Thanks!

 

[Vortex22]

For the black level test, is turning your brightness up considered "cheating"? Are you supposed to be testing at the brightness you normally use the monitor at? With the brightness turned all the way up on my 2007wfp (software controls still at default), I can see differences up to 6, with it turned to normal desktop settings, I can only see to 7 or 8 (depending on how hard I look).

 

[Mustanggt]

I have my new Samsung 215tw hooked up in dual mode with my Samsung 191t and you were not kidding the color on the 215tw is amazing the widescreen will take some time to get adjusted to but this LCD is very nice thanks again for your help. The 191t is no slouch i am sure it still looks better than alot of the cheaper newer LCDs out there.

 

[Vortex22]

Oh and one more thing I noticed. It could possibly just be me, but it seems like the left and right sides of the screen have slightly different color temperatures. The left looks slightly colder and the right is warmer. It's a very, very, subtle difference and you don't really notice unless you're looking for it, but it's the only thing I can seem to find 'wrong' with this display, and I'm quite the perfectionist.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rhaath
xtknight, you've done a great job with all of the info you've accumulated. Thank you! I've learned more about LCD's in 10 minutes on your site than I have anywhere else.

Glad to hear...that's been my goal all along.

I have a question for you.

I've just won an Xbox 360, and I would like to know your opinion on which lcd monitor would be a good choice for the system. I will only be using the monitor for the xbox and any future consoles (PS3, etc.,). It will not be used for my PC and it will only be used for gaming. Price is only a minor concern (within reason, nothing over $1000) and I'd prefer the monitor to be over 20". Could you possibly list your top three choices?

NEC 20WMGX2
BenQ FP241W
Samsung 215TW (may have some input lag so I suggest going with above two if budget permits)

Just FYI these are all great PC monitors too. They should have the inputs necessary for any console. In ascending order of quality, here are the different input connectors the LCDs may have: HDMI/DVI, VGA, component, S-Video, composite. The NEC has a TV tuner too (use after a modulator with old consoles).

I apologize if this has been answered before.

It actually hasn't been. I'll get really furious (yes, it's possible) if someone asks a question that's in my FAQs (which I admittedly need to update). I do appreciate you guys keeping me in line once in a while though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
Just got my 2007WFP delivered yesterday. It's a revision A03, made in Mexico in Sept. of '06, V1B18, RT803, and it shipped from Nashville, TN. Like Vortex and others have stated, this should be a S-IPS panel. It would be nice to know for sure but I'm not ready to tear 360 plus dollar monitor apart just to find out and as this is my first LCD it looks FANTASTIC to me! Hopefully this will help others. If anyone gets brave enough to pop the front bezel off, let us know what you find.

Now, is there a guide anywhere on how to properly set the brightness, contrast, etc? I tried the "Test your black level!" from xtknight's site and it looks the same to me all over. Is this right?

I hope to have a guide up soon on how to tweak your LCD for best performance. I'll explain the black level test better in that guide. Ideally there would be dark color tones across the page. Of course, most LCDs don't perform that well on this test. Again, I will explain it better in the forthcoming tweak guide (not the same as the "After Getting your LCD" article). I know I set myself up for lots of these questions when I don't provide an explanation in my sig link, so I will do that.

 

[amking]

xtknight, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. your guide/website/articles are simply amazing - they have helped me (a person who NEVER thought they'd use an lcd) more confidently make the transition... albeit with some problems, but hopefully the gx2 will solve all that

Originally posted by: xtknight
I don't know. I got mine from Newegg and it arrived with no dead pixels, just like every LCD I've ordered from them. (It still has no dead pixels BTW.) You take up any problems with NEC (they say with a note in the box, DO NOT RETURN THE DEFECTIVE LCD to the store). NEC has very generous support.

well i was asking with the goal of returning one or both (i want to get the 2007wfp and the 20WMGX2 next to each other). i already know i can return the dell, i was just concerned b/c on some of newegg's higher end items (high end cpu's/gpu's) that i've dealt with in the past its "returns on defective units only" or "exchange for same product".

edit: rofl of COURSE newegg magically doesnt have the black bezel version on their site right now (out of stock i'm quessing).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Vortex22
For the black level test, is turning your brightness up considered "cheating"? Are you supposed to be testing at the brightness you normally use the monitor at? With the brightness turned all the way up on my 2007wfp (software controls still at default), I can see differences up to 6, with it turned to normal desktop settings, I can only see to 7 or 8 (depending on how hard I look).

I'll explain this more in the forthcoming LCD tweak article.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niall
Got mine today too! Like eeric, it's a V1B11 LPL LM201W01 - looks like Canada still has some A02s. I think I can see the "splotchy" white that amking is talking about - but I would attribute it simply to the LCD technology and/or the panel surface. This isn't glass, it's not going to be a smooth white?.. that's the way I see it. Since it's not meant to be looked at from my nose inches away from the monitor, I don't give it much pause.

And this time I actually do see something at the black level test page! Yay! The lowest I can distinguish is a very very faint 7,7,7, though 10,10,10 is the clearest distinctive. I don't see any coloured or white pixels in there, or any black or coloured pixels in the blank notepad document. No dead pixels, I'd wager.

The LCD New Owner Guide is perfectly timed! Thanks!

Glad to hear you're happy. I hope to soon put up an article regarding tweaking your LCD.

 

[eeric]

Thx a lot for all your advice xtknight, I've gotten thru the first 2 hours of my first LCD. So far I am very satisfied with my 2007wfp. Just went thru your new guide... a few things I've sort of noticed after using my LCD for a few hours now I'd like to ask:

First of all, I'm not sure if I'm having that uniformity problem, after looking real close (centimeters away from LCD) I can see what you mean by "splotchy"... when I sit normally though, it seems as if I can see a colourful "shimmering" effect if I can call it that with my S-IPS panel, like it seems I can see sort of the RGB of each pixel sort of when I'm looking at this website with its grey background. (I do have pretty good eyesight 20/20 so I'm not sure if my eyes can see a bit past the resolution into each R/G/B component of individual pixels or smthg. It sounds logical, and if thats the case its simply dot pitch?) This is hard to notice when playing a game with a darker image overall, like World of Warcraft.

Next, more of an annoyance, specifically asking niall, does the "DVI-D" icon display at the top left of your LCD every time you load a game, start up windows, like every time it switches overlays it seems like it pops up... any way to turn it off in the menu or anything?

Other than that, again thx to xtknight for helping us all enjoy our new screens, looking forward to your tweaking guide!