LCD Buyer's Guide

[mrpuck]

I did consider the Benq, although it's about $300 more. Response times are the same from the stats I have read, 6ms each I believe? Does it offer any other primary benefit? Also how is their customer support/ warranty like?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mrpuck
I did consider the Benq, although it's about $300 more. Response times are the same from the stats I have read, 6ms each I believe? Does it offer any other primary benefit? Also how is their customer support/ warranty like?

Well at Dell.com the 2407 is $719.10, and at Newegg the FP241W is $800 after rebate. Assuming Newegg isn't a problem I would say the extra $80 was very well spent.

It does have better color reproduction and better connectivity. Also, I'm certain the FP241W has no banding problems. Apparently A02 fixed it with the 2007s, but there are still problems on the A02 2407s. I don't know the status of the A03 ones but I've heard reports of the colors being oversaturated on that rev. I guess you could say I'm afraid of the unknown. What caused the banding in the A02s if it wasn't dynamic contrast and why aren't they telling us? This A03 has some 'soft dither' option in it that sounds more like duct tape than actually patching the underlying problem. That's why I'm leery of recommending the 2407.

I haven't dealt with either company's support but Dell has the total satisfaction guarantee policy (return (even repeatedly) within 21 days for any reason). And that brings me to dead pixel policy...not sure about that. They aren't very open about it (be prepared to dig to find the info) and these policies do change over time. However, you'll be less likely to have quality issues with the BenQ as well. They get A-grade panels from AU Optronics while Dell gets the cheapest they can so they can price it as low as possible. That means less chance of getting dead pixels and backlight bleeding on the BenQ.

 

[im2good4u]

Originally posted by: xtknight

I haven't dealt with either company's support but Dell has the total satisfaction guarantee policy (return (even repeatedly) within 21 days for any reason). And that brings me to dead pixel policy...not sure about that.

I believe its 6 dead pixels which is industry standard

 

[KDXPHIL]

Hey Everyone,
Wow! What a wealth of knowledge, thanks xtknight for your valuable info and all others that have contributed to this thread.

First off, I am new to this forum and would like to say Hello and hope to have a few questions answered regarding my upcoming purchase of a new LCD.

After reading this thread I have narrowed my decision down to a few good monitors ( not in any particular order)

1. Benq 24"'er
2. NEC 20WMGX2
3. Samsung 215TW

I would be using this monitor for:

Photo edit (Not proffesional but High Quality RAW DSLR Photos, where colour is important)
Gaming, Documents, and Movies if it is a large enough screen.

For photo work, how does the Benq compare to the other 2? Can it be calibrated to offer very good results and if so, how would this be done (Software or some crazy machine?)
I love the size of the Benq, I dont like the fact that it does not support pixel mapping. With a variety of inputs, all sources WILL be stretched except from the video card, providing the card supports fixed aspect ratios. Possibly a future Firmware upgrade?
My eyes are very sensitive to stretching, and ANY stretching at all is not acceptable especially in movies, This may be something worth adding as a Negative of this particular LCD.

The NEC sounds almost perfect. Fast response time and excellent colours. The down sides being the price (minor detail although for $150 more I get 24" of sreen) and also I find the 20" widesreen small.

Can anyone comment on the 215TW and it's size? I know the resolution is the same as the NEC but does the screen appear bigger?

To sum it up, I am looking for Quality + Big. Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Phil.

 

[mrpuck]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: mrpuck
I did consider the Benq, although it's about $300 more. Response times are the same from the stats I have read, 6ms each I believe? Does it offer any other primary benefit? Also how is their customer support/ warranty like?

Well at Dell.com the 2407 is $719.10, and at Newegg the FP241W is $800 after rebate. Assuming Newegg isn't a problem I would say the extra $80 was very well spent.

It does have better color reproduction and better connectivity. Also, I'm certain the FP241W has no banding problems. Apparently A02 fixed it with the 2007s, but there are still problems on the A02 2407s. I don't know the status of the A03 ones but I've heard reports of the colors being oversaturated on that rev. I guess you could say I'm afraid of the unknown. What caused the banding in the A02s if it wasn't dynamic contrast and why aren't they telling us? This A03 has some 'soft dither' option in it that sounds more like duct tape than actually patching the underlying problem. That's why I'm leery of recommending the 2407.

I haven't dealt with either company's support but Dell has the total satisfaction guarantee policy (return (even repeatedly) within 21 days for any reason). And that brings me to dead pixel policy...not sure about that. They aren't very open about it (be prepared to dig to find the info) and these policies do change over time. However, you'll be less likely to have quality issues with the BenQ as well. They get A-grade panels from AU Optronics while Dell gets the cheapest they can so they can price it as low as possible. That means less chance of getting dead pixels and backlight bleeding on the BenQ.

Thanks for the thought out response. I have to agree with you regarding the "unknown" on the A03 revision with Dell. Although I haven't heard of any issues with that version "yet" that doesn't mean they are not out there. Like you mention as well, I think their bandaid fix was to just disable something in the housing that was causing the banding issues to begin with. There is a coupon for Dell for 15% off LCD's which is why I pegged the 2407 at around $600 shipped. I was unaware the Benq had a rebate however so that definitely makes it more attractive. From what I have read here and elsewhere Benq is pretty much considered a much higher quality LCD and would be the best investment for me. Thanks for the help.

 

[niall]

Other question: where can I find information on calibrating a monitor's gamma curve?

It's not just for me; a friend of mine who is a professional artist just received as a birthday present an LCD from a friend - the Viewsonic VG2021m. This was before I could talk with her about what she needed, but since she does a lot of prints from her computer, and sometimes has to correct colours, a cheap TN monitor will NOT do. Not if I'm around. Considering the shops in her area, I'll recommend for her the LP2065 (the extra height is of importance over a widescreen here), but I'd love to give her hints on the calibration as well, so that she gets something out of her printer that is as close as possible to what's on screen.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: KDXPHIL
Hey Everyone,
Wow! What a wealth of knowledge, thanks xtknight for your valuable info and all others that have contributed to this thread.

First off, I am new to this forum and would like to say Hello and hope to have a few questions answered regarding my upcoming purchase of a new LCD.

After reading this thread I have narrowed my decision down to a few good monitors ( not in any particular order)

1. Benq 24"'er
2. NEC 20WMGX2
3. Samsung 215TW

I would be using this monitor for:

Photo edit (Not proffesional but High Quality RAW DSLR Photos, where colour is important)
Gaming, Documents, and Movies if it is a large enough screen.

For photo work, how does the Benq compare to the other 2? Can it be calibrated to offer very good results and if so, how would this be done (Software or some crazy machine?)

Yes, by means of a crazy machine ... a hardware colorimeter actually (such as the Eye One Display 2). The BenQ can probably display colors very well after calibration. I still feel that the best of all those screens (for photo editing) is the NEC 20WMGX2. The upcoming BenQ FP241WZ unfortunately won't support 1:1 pixel mapping either.

I love the size of the Benq, I dont like the fact that it does not support pixel mapping. With a variety of inputs, all sources WILL be stretched except from the video card, providing the card supports fixed aspect ratios. Possibly a future Firmware upgrade?
My eyes are very sensitive to stretching, and ANY stretching at all is not acceptable especially in movies, This may be something worth adding as a Negative of this particular LCD.

To be honest I don't think the 20WMGX2 or 215TW support 1:1 scaling either. Few LCDs do. If you have an NVIDIA card that won't be a problem. With ATI you will just have to stick at native if you don't want it to be stretched.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niall
Other question: where can I find information on calibrating a monitor's gamma curve?

It's not just for me; a friend of mine who is a professional artist just received as a birthday present an LCD from a friend - the Viewsonic VG2021m. This was before I could talk with her about what she needed, but since she does a lot of prints from her computer, and sometimes has to correct colours, a cheap TN monitor will NOT do. Not if I'm around. Considering the shops in her area, I'll recommend for her the LP2065 (the extra height is of importance over a widescreen here), but I'd love to give her hints on the calibration as well, so that she gets something out of her printer that is as close as possible to what's on screen.

Well, there are lots of sites telling how to calibrate a CRT's gamma but they don't really apply to LCDs. I'm trying to get a lot on LCD calibration into my next LCD tweaking article, however it'll be a while yet. In development is the best gamma curve adjustment program ever made (at least I hope so).

Calibration isn't an easy process. I guess you could just print different patches of color and adjust the gamma for that color until the screen and print match. That's pretty much what you have to do to calibrate the monitor's output to the printer's output. You can adjust the gamma curve with the NVIDIA/ATI control panel or RivaTuner. I would just set 10 reference points for dark tones and 10 for the rest of the color spectrum since dark tones tend to have lots of trouble on LCDs.

 

[Araemo]

Originally posted by: xtknightWith ATI you will just have to stick at native if you don't want it to be stretched.

I'm not sure that's accurate. I'm pretty sure the ATI drivers have that option if you have an LCD connected over DVI. I can't tell you exactly where, as I don't own any LCDs, and my work computers don't have DVI, but I did test a friend's LCD out while I was building their system, and I was able to control how the stretching was done at non-native resolutions. This was back before ATI ditched the old style control panel though, so perhaps they removed the feature?

 

[Araemo]

Also, out of curiosity, is there a particular reason the Viewsonic VX2025WM was dropped from the recommended list? I've been eying that monitor for a while, it isn't too expensive, but had good reviews, and if I recall, it is a true 8 bit panel? I can't justify spending too much, but I want something that has good color reproduction for photo editing, and a fast enough response time for gaming, and preferably has a decent black level(But I'm not as picky about that - CRTs start losing their pretty blacks as they get older. )

edit: Nevermind. I searched the forums for all references to "VX2025WM" and got no results, but I just found your answer higher in this thread. WTF anandtech?

 

[xtknight]

Tweaking your LCD is up. Please let me know whether the guide is making things too easy or too hard. I'm not sure if a lot of this is self-explanatory enough or not, but I hope my audience won't have trouble following it. My goal was to keep things concise and to the point (like always ). Color calibration is very complicated, and don't make the length of the guide fool you as it will take a while to get your colors good. I apologize as I've had to make rather serious modifications to the guide shortly after publishing it.

P.S. For the "black level" thing, I'll add an explanation to the link in my sig. It's not exactly crucial that you be able to distinguish gray tones RGB(3,3,3) and RGB(4,4,4) and what not. It's meant to be hard for LCDs.

 

[alangenh]

Got my 215TW! I ordered it from amazon on Sunday, and it arrived on Tuesday. Also it went up $20 in price a day after I ordered it, so I'm feeling lucky.

Another reason to feel lucky is because it's awesome! Not perfect, but awesome, and well worth the price, I think. I know there'd be more punch with a glossy screen, but I don't miss it like I feared I might. I like this screen much better than my Dell LCD at work. I don't really know that much about LCD's, but my eyes are picky, and I like the 215TW. If there's lag, it doesn't bother me (I haven't tried any games.) The colors are as beautiful, as reported, and I keep pulling up video to watch because it's pretty.

No dead pixels, and the black test thing is interesting -- I can distinguish every single level. I can also verify what you noted somewhere above in this thread about how it's harder to see the different colors straight on than it is from a slight angle, on this screen.

There is one annoyance, though it's not the monitor's fault. I have very dense pixels on my 13" 1280x800 laptop screen. So I have a minimum font size of 14 or 16pt set in a lot of programs. On a 21" 1680x1050, text is pretty crisp, but the fonts from my laptop settings are really huge. I need a way to store different defaults for text sizes for programs based on whether the external monitor is plugged in or not. Don't think such a thing exists. It would be interesting to see a 1200x1920 resolution in a 21" or 22" monitor; it would probably match my laptop better.

The case of the 215TW is slightly flimsy, but not enough to worry me, and I like the looks and the amount of adjustment possible. (I actually wish it would rise up a tad further.) The speakers are bad -- that's obvious, of course, but what surprised me was just exactly how bad they are. I figured they'd be about the same as my laptop speakers, but actually, my laptop speakers are about 4x better than the 215TW's speakers. Doesn't matter, though, I wasn't planning to use them anyway.

All in all, I'm extremely satisfied, and I thank you very much for your help -- who knows what I would have ended up with on my own.

 

[KDXPHIL]

I understand the NEC has an intergrated TV Tuner, can this be used to record video on your computer?
Any way of feeding what is on the display back to the computer?

Thanks

 

[AndeeG]

xtknight, what's your stance on 16:10 vs. 16:12? I have a 19 inch 4:3 CRT right now and I'm looking into the 2007wfp but I want it to feel like an upgrade. I've heard a lot of people say that widescreen is pointless below 24". Also, it seems like there aren't any great 20" 4:3 monitors out there.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alangenh
Got my 215TW! I ordered it from amazon on Sunday, and it arrived on Tuesday. Also it went up $20 in price a day after I ordered it, so I'm feeling lucky.

Another reason to feel lucky is because it's awesome! Not perfect, but awesome, and well worth the price, I think. I know there'd be more punch with a glossy screen, but I don't miss it like I feared I might. I like this screen much better than my Dell LCD at work. I don't really know that much about LCD's, but my eyes are picky, and I like the 215TW. If there's lag, it doesn't bother me (I haven't tried any games.) The colors are as beautiful, as reported, and I keep pulling up video to watch because it's pretty.

Great to hear that there's no noticeable input lag on your unit.

No dead pixels, and the black test thing is interesting -- I can distinguish every single level. I can also verify what you noted somewhere above in this thread about how it's harder to see the different colors straight on than it is from a slight angle, on this screen.

That's pretty amazing, but it's to be expected from a great LCD like the 215TW.

There is one annoyance, though it's not the monitor's fault. I have very dense pixels on my 13" 1280x800 laptop screen. So I have a minimum font size of 14 or 16pt set in a lot of programs. On a 21" 1680x1050, text is pretty crisp, but the fonts from my laptop settings are really huge. I need a way to store different defaults for text sizes for programs based on whether the external monitor is plugged in or not. Don't think such a thing exists. It would be interesting to see a 1200x1920 resolution in a 21" or 22" monitor; it would probably match my laptop better.

I believe DPI numbers are sent from the monitor's memory to the video card, however I'm not sure how to modify it or whether Windows even obeys it. Raising DPI under font options wouldn't work because then it would be bigger on all the screens. If you happen to use Linux, you can configure a DPI for each screen.

The case of the 215TW is slightly flimsy, but not enough to worry me, and I like the looks and the amount of adjustment possible. (I actually wish it would rise up a tad further.) The speakers are bad -- that's obvious, of course, but what surprised me was just exactly how bad they are. I figured they'd be about the same as my laptop speakers, but actually, my laptop speakers are about 4x better than the 215TW's speakers. Doesn't matter, though, I wasn't planning to use them anyway.

All in all, I'm extremely satisfied, and I thank you very much for your help -- who knows what I would have ended up with on my own.

Enjoy and be sure to watch HD video on it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: KDXPHIL
I understand the NEC has an intergrated TV Tuner, can this be used to record video on your computer?
Any way of feeding what is on the display back to the computer?

Thanks

The US model (20WMGX2) does have a TV tuner. Unfortunately you can't record the output of the TV tuner. Any method to do so would require making internal modifications to the LCD. You wouldn't have to touch the TFT panel but you would have to hook the TV tuner up to some type of PC interface. It's all way more complicated than just getting a PCI/USB TV tuner.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: AndeeG
xtknight, what's your stance on 16:10 vs. 16:12? I have a 19 inch 4:3 CRT right now and I'm looking into the 2007wfp but I want it to feel like an upgrade.

Sounds great to me. I've gone from a 17" 4:3 CRT->17" 5:4 LCD->19" 5:4 LCD->20" 16:10 LCD and couldn't be happier. Granted if your 19" CRT is like most, it does 1600x1200, but I doubt the small loss of screen area will bother you.

I've heard a lot of people say that widescreen is pointless below 24".

Why? 23" widescreens offer a higher pixel density than 24" screens, resulting in a finer image. 20" widescreen LCDs offer higher resolution than 19" screens in a space more suited to your field of vision. 21" widescreens are just the same thing but with lower pixel density, and likewise with 22" ones.

That said, I would say, out of all widescreen LCDs, the BenQ FP241W happens to be the best value out there for image quality, resolution, and sheer size.

Also, it seems like there aren't any great 20" 4:3 monitors out there.

You'd be right about that. None really stand out that much, but there are some reasonably decent ones: HP LP2065, NEC LCD2070NX, and the Dell 2007FP.

 

[vsd]

Thanks for your guide and your time.

I need a new LCD for gaming (preferably 21 inches, more or less, 1600x1200). It is a flight simulator so dark level and no backlight issues are very important (so that you can fly at night).

I have a Samsung 970 and the dark level is good enough. But I have some other problems: The DVI connection doesn't work (only analog) and the stand doesn't support the weight of the display anymore. Colors are not very good either.

Should that IPS HP panel be good for this purpose?. Is there anything new and interesting coming in the next months?.

Regards

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: vsd
Thanks for your guide and your time.

I need a new LCD for gaming (preferably 21 inches, more or less, 1600x1200). It is a flight simulator so dark level and no backlight issues are very important (so that you can fly at night).

I have a Samsung 970 and the dark level is good enough. But I have some other problems: The DVI connection doesn't work (only analog) and the stand doesn't support the weight of the display anymore. Colors are not very good either.

Should that IPS HP panel be good for this purpose?. Is there anything new and interesting coming in the next months?.

Regards

The HP LP2065 does sound good for your purposes. While some PVAs would have a better black level, the IPS should still be able to show darker tones with more emphasis. IPS panels are also known for their excellent uniformity.

You could always give widescreen a try. You really do have lots more flexibility in choosing a screen. You'd be thrilled with the Samsung 215TW or NEC 20WMGX2.

 

[vsd]

Thanks a lot.

Widescreen is a problem because the game is not designed for it and I would need a more powerful graphic card as well.

Regards.

 

[stillkicking]

Here's a question that has probably been asked before but I couldn't find anything. I have an old ATI Radeon 9600Pro. My current monitor is a 17" LCD that I would like to upgrade to something larger. My card lists the resolutions that it supports including the 1600x1200 that is standard for a 20" monitor. However, it does not list the 1680x1050 setting that is standard for the 20" wide screens. Am I out of luck? I tried the ATI website but I could not find any information and I don't want to install new drivers if there is no point to it. The sales people at my local big boxes were no help at all. Does anyone here have experience with this sized monitor/resolution and my particular card? Thanks.

 

[Michael]

I echo xtknight's suggestions to get a calibration device.

There's one that does the job well but is a step down in price. It seems to be branded as "Huey" now:

Huey at Amazon.com

It sells for about $70 US.

Gretag-Macbeth has the same device and software.

You can find it here in stores in Singapore for about $120 Sing$ or about $77 US. Once the monitor is adjusted, you don't need to keep it connected, so you could buy one with a few friends chipping in and each can adjust their own monitor. Monitors will drift a little over time, so you will need to be able to swap the device around a little if you go by that route.

Michael

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

I received my Dell 2007 WFP just over a week ago. In the last 4 or 5 days I've noticed some flickering (looks almost like a florescent bulb going bad), mostly on the right side and what I can only describe as "dancing" in the dark blue shades on my desktop background. It almost looks like the colors are shifting up and down or changing from dark to light and back again. It's not as noticible in the lighter colors. I don't think it was there before but I'm just not sure.

Is this normal? I'd hate to exchange this one which is a S-IPS pannel and get an S-PVA if this is normal for an LCD and still have it do this.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: stillkicking
Here's a question that has probably been asked before but I couldn't find anything. I have an old ATI Radeon 9600Pro. My current monitor is a 17" LCD that I would like to upgrade to something larger. My card lists the resolutions that it supports including the 1600x1200 that is standard for a 20" monitor. However, it does not list the 1680x1050 setting that is standard for the 20" wide screens. Am I out of luck? I tried the ATI website but I could not find any information and I don't want to install new drivers if there is no point to it. The sales people at my local big boxes were no help at all. Does anyone here have experience with this sized monitor/resolution and my particular card? Thanks.

Your card will be able to support it when you hook up the new LCD. It has dual 400 MHz RAMDACs and a 165 MHz TMDS transmitter...more than enough for VGA or DVI at 1680x1050/60 Hz.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
I received my Dell 2007 WFP just over a week ago. In the last 4 or 5 days I've noticed some flickering (looks almost like a florescent bulb going bad), mostly on the right side and what I can only describe as "dancing" in the dark blue shades on my desktop background. It almost looks like the colors are shifting up and down or changing from dark to light and back again. It's not as noticible in the lighter colors. I don't think it was there before but I'm just not sure.

Is this normal? I'd hate to exchange this one which is a S-IPS pannel and get an S-PVA if this is normal for an LCD and still have it do this.

That's definitely not normal. Return it.