LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niggles
OK, what ever happened with the entire DRM issue with Vista and downloaded media with monitors. As I understand it all that is required is a monitor that runs HDMI, is that correct?

Forget everything you know. OK, now: when viewing HD-DVD and BluRay discs on any operating system, the HDCP protocol (implemented via DVI or HDMI) is required to be supported on both the video card and the monitor. VGA will output at full res until producers implement the Image Constraint Token (ICT) [in a few years]. That's it.

I am also looking at the BenQ and am trying to figure out if it will work for the DRM rules that will be part of Vista (last I heard).
xtKnight, any assistance would be appreciated. Cheers

p.s. xboxist: http://www.benq.com/products/LCD/?product=812&page=features

Yes, the FP241W supports HDCP over its DVI and HDMI ports AFAIK (at least one of them supports HDCP).

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Also... my friend is raving about the 24" BenQ LCD (~$800). What do you know about that one? Thanks!

I recommend it for multimedia. It has some input lag just like the Dell, but so far it's unknown if it's worse or better. Some tests have contradicted each other. What we do know is that color reproduction is far superior to the Dell.

That would explain why he bought it. He makes short movies as a hobby. He's very particular about how things look.

 

[im2good4u]

any news on the viewsonic vg1930wm? and lg 194wt? and how can i find a dead pixel in an lcd? because im still thinking about those 2 and the samsnug 940bw. the LG has 2000:1 contrast ratio so is that a big advantage?

 

[niggles]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Also... my friend is raving about the 24" BenQ LCD (~$800). What do you know about that one? Thanks!

I recommend it for multimedia. It has some input lag just like the Dell, but so far it's unknown if it's worse or better. Some tests have contradicted each other. What we do know is that color reproduction is far superior to the Dell.

So what does this mean about gaming, would this be a bad choice as a gaming monitor then?

 

[xboxist]

xtknight,

The following is what you said in your article about the 24" BenQ on lcdresource.com:

"It does lack one feature: 1:1 pixel mapping. That means, if you have an ATI card (ATIs don't offer these options) and want to run in centered mode, you're doomed."

Could you explain exactly how this will impact the average user? I'm new to LCDs, and I don't know what centered mode is. My graphics card is an ATI x1900xt. Can I still consider the BenQ, or would it be the worst choice ever?

Thanks again.

 

[DustyNL]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: DustyNL
Well I managed to return my 215TW to the dealer, there were some troubles because I opened the package, but in the end it didn't matter.

So now I will begin my search all over for a gaming/multimedia widescreen :frown:
Which one would you suggest XTknight ?
I see in the list the NEC would be 1st, but I DO NOT like any glossy coating.
I have it on my laptop but it bothers me like hell, every light in the environment is being reflected.
Also I liked the size of the 21 inch, better than 20 inch so I guess I will be looking for 21 to 22 inch in the first place

Hmm... well, I would say the Samsung 225BW for a 22" multimedia widescreen. I wish there were more S-PVA and S-IPS panels out there but alas there aren't. I don't think that you will get any input lag with the 225BW.

Any comments on the reported backlight bleading of the 225bw?
Could it be that this effect will reduce in time?

 

[ampsarus]

Esteemed LCD gurus:
I'm using a 21" CRT that is showing signs of age, and I'd like my next monitor to not weigh 80# and take up half my desk if I can avoid it.

Do any of you have an opinion on the VX2035wm? A local retailer is selling them for ~$250, and it seems at that price, I can't go wrong...Am I wrong? It would be used for games, viewing pics, & surfing. TIA for any info.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: im2good4u
any news on the viewsonic vg1930wm? and lg 194wt? and how can i find a dead pixel in an lcd? because im still thinking about those 2 and the samsnug 940bw. the LG has 2000:1 contrast ratio so is that a big advantage?

The L194wt uses a TN panel made by LG Philips (like the L204WT and L1970HR), which tend to be superior to other TNs. That's about all I know, but given the choice I would get the L194wt out of all three of those.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: niggles

Originally posted by: xtknight

Also... my friend is raving about the 24" BenQ LCD (~$800). What do you know about that one? Thanks!

I recommend it for multimedia. It has some input lag just like the Dell, but so far it's unknown if it's worse or better. Some tests have contradicted each other. What we do know is that color reproduction is far superior to the Dell.

So what does this mean about gaming, would this be a bad choice as a gaming monitor then?

Bad choice overall, but best choice for 24". It doesn't bother most people.

Originally posted by: xboxist
xtknight,

The following is what you said in your article about the 24" BenQ on lcdresource.com:

"It does lack one feature: 1:1 pixel mapping. That means, if you have an ATI card (ATIs don't offer these options) and want to run in centered mode, you're doomed."

Could you explain exactly how this will impact the average user? I'm new to LCDs, and I don't know what centered mode is. My graphics card is an ATI x1900xt. Can I still consider the BenQ, or would it be the worst choice ever?

Thanks again.

If you want to play at lower resolutions on the LCD, you will have to deal with them being scaled. You can't center the smaller resolution into the larger, native resolution (centered mode). Check out the benchmarks for the x1900xt @ 1920x1200 if you want to know how it'll perform on the BenQ. I doubt you'll be happy with the scaling quality of an LCD for gaming.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DustyNL
Any comments on the reported backlight bleading of the 225bw?
Could it be that this effect will reduce in time?

It depends. On some LCDs like the 20WMGX2, yes, it does go away over time since it was caused by pressure on the panel. If it's something in the crystals, no, it will not go away. Reports of backlight bleeding on the 225bw widely vary.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ampsarus
Esteemed LCD gurus:
I'm using a 21" CRT that is showing signs of age, and I'd like my next monitor to not weigh 80# and take up half my desk if I can avoid it.

Do any of you have an opinion on the VX2035wm? A local retailer is selling them for ~$250, and it seems at that price, I can't go wrong...Am I wrong? It would be used for games, viewing pics, & surfing. TIA for any info.

The VX2025wm at ~$300 is a much better solution since the VX2035wm uses a lower-end TN panel. It's worth the extra $50.

 

[im2good4u]

@Xtnight

thanks for a straight answer, then i'll definitely be going for that LG, only problem is its out of stock right now so ill have to wait. and yeah BTW have you heard anything about SED?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: im2good4u
@Xtnight

thanks for a straight answer, then i'll definitely be going for that LG, only problem is its out of stock right now so ill have to wait. and yeah BTW have you heard anything about SED?

Heard lots but I don't expect SED monitors to be in the mass market until 2010 at the earliest. TVs may come earlier, but for monitors they will have to reduce the size of the pixels which is very hard to do with SED technology. I believe they will have to use carbon nanotube (CNT) pixels, and they don't have those ready yet.

 

[SLM Crew Chief]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Well, the S-IPS panel would be the favorite, but is the S-PVA panel generally superior to the TN panels on the LG models? At least for gaming and general use.

I would go with the LG model to be honest. The S-PVA (a mediocre one) in the 2007WFP doesn't sound too appealing and I'm debating whether to keep it on the recommendations list. I'll move it below the L204WT for now and make a note that it's because of the likelihood of getting an S-PVA.

I posted it before but incase anyone missed it... I had a Dell with the S-IPS in it. It had some issues so I exchanged it for this one and got the S-PVA. I liked the S-IPS one MUCH better. This S-PVA has the appearance of looking thru a fine window screen, especially toward the edges. On xtknight's "Test your dark grayscale" page, to get it set so that it is visible straight on, it makes verything else washed out, and way too bright like this text, background, etc. It can be set so that it doesn't look so bad reading message boards, etc but then to view the grayscale, you actually have to view it WAY off center. Viewed on center, the whole page looks black. I've only used this one like 4 days and I'm really thinking about calling Dell and getting my money back. My biggest problem is what I'd replace it with would have to be the NEC at over 600 dollars but currently, IMO, it would be worth it!

The one thing I do have to say is that with the S-PVA, I don't get that purple cast when looking at extreme angles, lol.

 

[Bonesdad]

Happy birthday to this thread...one year old today! Thanks to xtknight for his help!

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Happy birthday to this thread...one year old today! Thanks to xtknight for his help!

xtnight 4 prez



I am returning with another question (pretty much the same but asking for more options):

I would like a few suggestions for best solutions for


8 Bit
20" minimum (WS or not)
Good response time (at least similar to what I currently have )
Low Input lag

You have suggested the HP2065 and NEC 20WMGX2... any other viable options?
How is the VX2025 and the Dell 2007WFP

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: xboxist
xtknight,

The following is what you said in your article about the 24" BenQ on lcdresource.com:

"It does lack one feature: 1:1 pixel mapping. That means, if you have an ATI card (ATIs don't offer these options) and want to run in centered mode, you're doomed."

Could you explain exactly how this will impact the average user? I'm new to LCDs, and I don't know what centered mode is. My graphics card is an ATI x1900xt. Can I still consider the BenQ, or would it be the worst choice ever?

Thanks again.

If you want to play at lower resolutions on the LCD, you will have to deal with them being scaled. You can't center the smaller resolution into the larger, native resolution (centered mode). Check out the benchmarks for the x1900xt @ 1920x1200 if you want to know how it'll perform on the BenQ. I doubt you'll be happy with the scaling quality of an LCD for gaming.[/quote]

So let me just make sure I understand this right...

If I use an app or a game that doesn't have a resolution option to fit up to 1920x1200, then the monitor doesn't have a way to "best fit it"? What will it look like?

I can't tell if this is something that will look clearly unusable, or if it's just a minor gripe. Are you really saying that anyone with an ATI card can't reasonably use this monitor? That's a lot of people!

/stabs ATI

 

[Maper]

XTknight: Would you consider removing the Samsung SyncMaster 971P, 1280x1024 (5:4) out of the list?.
Colors aren't great and the stand doesn't support the panel anymore after some time of use.
I have mine supported with an ashtray.

Regards

 

[a123456]

If I use an app or a game that doesn't have a resolution option to fit up to 1920x1200, then the monitor doesn't have a way to "best fit it"? What will it look like?

I can't tell if this is something that will look clearly unusable, or if it's just a minor gripe. Are you really saying that anyone with an ATI card can't reasonably use this monitor? That's a lot of people!

/stabs ATI

It will scale/stretch the image and usually the images will look all grainy and pixelated. That's why you basically want to run at the native res almost all the time when you can. There are some monitors/software that allows for "black bars" so that the image is 1:1, but this isn't always supported. As for "will it bother you," that depends on your preference. I sometimes don't mind scaling and it's really not that bad, but some people can't stand anything less than 1:1 or native. It's definitely not for any type of long-term usage, though, as you would have been better off going smaller monitor or a monitor that supports 1:1 if that's the case.

 

[xboxist]

Originally posted by: a123456

If I use an app or a game that doesn't have a resolution option to fit up to 1920x1200, then the monitor doesn't have a way to "best fit it"? What will it look like?

I can't tell if this is something that will look clearly unusable, or if it's just a minor gripe. Are you really saying that anyone with an ATI card can't reasonably use this monitor? That's a lot of people!

/stabs ATI

It will scale/stretch the image and usually the images will look all grainy and pixelated. That's why you basically want to run at the native res almost all the time when you can. There are some monitors/software that allows for "black bars" so that the image is 1:1, but this isn't always supported. As for "will it bother you," that depends on your preference. I sometimes don't mind scaling and it's really not that bad, but some people can't stand anything less than 1:1 or native. It's definitely not for any type of long-term usage, though, as you would have been better off going smaller monitor or a monitor that supports 1:1 if that's the case.

I think I understand now. I guess the next thing on my mind then would be, "How often will I run into this?" Do all modern games allow you to use 1920x1200?

If there's a chance that I will not be able to play a high-profile game because it will look horrible, then I probably need to not consider this monitor. A shame.

 

[amking]

just an FYI to those of you out there who are considering the 20WMGX2: there is a $50 rebate available to you from nec if you purchase the monitor between 11/20/06 and 12/31/06.

rebate form: http://images10.newegg.com/uploadfilesf...rebate/SH/NEC7MIRsNov20Dec3106kl09.pdf

qualifying retailers: http://www.necdisplay.com/products/resellerlist.htm

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: SLM Crew Chief
I posted it before but incase anyone missed it... I had a Dell with the S-IPS in it. It had some issues so I exchanged it for this one and got the S-PVA. I liked the S-IPS one MUCH better. This S-PVA has the appearance of looking thru a fine window screen, especially toward the edges. On xtknight's "Test your dark grayscale" page, to get it set so that it is visible straight on, it makes verything else washed out, and way too bright like this text, background, etc. It can be set so that it doesn't look so bad reading message boards, etc but then to view the grayscale, you actually have to view it WAY off center. Viewed on center, the whole page looks black. I've only used this one like 4 days and I'm really thinking about calling Dell and getting my money back. My biggest problem is what I'd replace it with would have to be the NEC at over 600 dollars but currently, IMO, it would be worth it!

The one thing I do have to say is that with the S-PVA, I don't get that purple cast when looking at extreme angles, lol.

Your S-PVA has a washed out look from strong horizontal angles though, right? To be honest with you the viewing angles on S-IPS are far from flawless but the grayscale inversion is minimal.

I'm pleased to announce that since I haven't heard any DVI issues about the ViewSonic VX2025WM lately I'm going to put it back up there on the recommendations. I'm also thinking it may just be the cable they're including with the LCD, but I'm not sure. There's really nothing better at that price point...nothing even close, even if the ViewSonic isn't perfect. When the Dell was at $340 and was still using an S-IPS that was the obvious choice. Alas, times (and not to mention, panels) change. The VX2025WM will now fill the $300 high-quality LCD screen void again.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Maper
XTknight: Would you consider removing the Samsung SyncMaster 971P, 1280x1024 (5:4) out of the list?.
Colors aren't great and the stand doesn't support the panel anymore after some time of use.
I have mine supported with an ashtray.

Regards

Did you find another LCD with better image quality (particularly a 19" LCD)? If not, there is not much I can do since I can only recommend 'the best' of the market right now. I have to assume either you got a bad unit or LCDs aren't for you. I know the stand thing is a problem with the 970P and BeHardware thought the 971P had improved since then...apparently not then. I will make note of the stand problem, but I'm going to keep the LCD up there unless there is a superior 19" LCD. Sorry for your bad experience, but you could give the NEC MultiSync 90GX2 a try, for something comparable and perhaps even superior in image quality.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Happy birthday to this thread...one year old today! Thanks to xtknight for his help!

Thank you guys for making me keep up on LCDs. Hopefully the thread will grow quadratically over the years. This thread is on the low-carb diet...all the meat and none of the fat. I don't even think there's been a flame war in these 2500 replies...amazing for AnandTech. I'd like to thank everyone else who's helped me answer questions including darXoul, Zebo, and Mem. I'm sure there are others I have missed.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: Bonesdad
Happy birthday to this thread...one year old today! Thanks to xtknight for his help!

xtnight 4 prez



I am returning with another question (pretty much the same but asking for more options):

I would like a few suggestions for best solutions for


8 Bit
20" minimum (WS or not)
Good response time (at least similar to what I currently have )
Low Input lag

You have suggested the HP2065 and NEC 20WMGX2... any other viable options?
How is the VX2025 and the Dell 2007WFP

I'm not certain that the HP LP2065 has low input lag, but I strongly suspect it. I know that the NEC's is quite minimal (though not as low as the LCDs recommended in the hardcore gaming section).

I'm pretty certain at this point the ViewSonic VX2025WM's P-MVA is better than the S-PVA you may end up with in the 2007WFP, so I recommend grabbing the former. The VX2025WM is indisputably great for gaming, and that's one that may best your 915N in response time. Of course, the NEC 20WMGX2 is still the best, but at twice the price of the VX2025WM it may not be worth it for everyone.