LCD Buyer's Guide

[Mystiqq]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
I spent a good hour and half, at least, session with LCD sites and forums yesterday which i do every once in a while to keep up whats new. I came a cross one person who had to choose between NEC LCD2070NX and HP LP2065. In the end it took the HP since the NEC seems to have some noise issues and has older panel, but he recommended both.

Personally the HP seems quite attractive and i know it wont probably be the best of the best.

Main thing is that im not in a huge hurry to buy a LCD but im constantly looking to see if theres something thats really worth it. I have pretty decent 19" CRT with diamontron tube which is pretty awesome and probably will be my "gaming monitor" for a long time.

Anyone know if there will be any new LCDs around the corner? Something with the AS-IPS panel perhaps?

Also seems to be good idea to remind people who dont live in the USA that the NEC 20WMGX2 is USA only. So no DHCP for non-US... :/

BTW. anyone know any czech? Found this pretty decent looking review but reading it is another thing.
http://www.svethardware.cz/art_doc-C6AA8C2A40181EACC125719E005B3561.html

I don't know of any more AS-IPS (or new S-IPS) panels coming out. In which areas are you looking for improvement over current S-IPS panels?

Response of >25 ms doesn't look too good for multimedia use. I'm pretty sure the Dell 2007FP (same panel) isn't that bad.

Thanks. I will note the NEC thing.

Edit: sorry. didn't catch it, but I assume you are not in the US?

Originally posted by: mike3uz
It's either the 2007WFP (S-IPS version) or the 20WMGX2. I like the 20WMGX2 but dont like the persistence problem. The Dell is nice and affordable but the S-IPS one is the one to get but I cant be guaranteed one.

Are you talking about the guy on Newegg reviews who spoke of it? That is the first time I've heard of an image persistence problem with the 20WMGX2. He may have gotten a bad batch. I leave stuff up for hours and have no issue.

Correct, im not from the US.

Dell might be pretty good, but the problem is that this thing isnt sold locally for some reason. Only buying it directly from Dell seems to be the only option but as i checked their prices, i laughed and exited.

Ive checked, and checked again. There seems to be very few real options besides the HP. Pretty much only "contender" is the LG L2000C(-SF).

Another one of the other options ive seen people tangle with has been the NEC LCD2070NX, costs over 600? here so its a "nono", which by the way seems to be pretty close to the HP in performance wise and is less noisy...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/20inch_4.html

I just dont know anymore.

 

[tornadog]

Originally posted by: tornadog
any opinions on the Soyo 19" DYLM 1998 LCD, 8 ms, 600:1, black?

Nope, I have heard nothing of it. Is there a reason you're considering it over other 19" value models?[/quote]


I found it for $120 AR, and the rebate amount is smaller than the 100 rebate for the hanns-G

 

[Jodiuh]

Another one of my coworkers ordered a 2007WFP late Nov. It's an S-IPS! Only thing in common's our area...PHX, AZ. My shipped from Austin, his from Nevada.

EDIT: The panel I recieved DID NOT come from Nashville, my bad. It's an Austin baby!

 

[Baloonsquad]

I believe the FPD2485W has 1:1 pixel mapping, meaning it can center a smaller resolution into its native one, making your video card render far less pixels. The image will be surrounded by black/non-drawing area though.

Can the NEC 20WMGX2 do this? One of the main things that concerned me was trying to play an old game or something that didn't support widescreen, and running into issues like it stretching the image. If I could let it sit inside of the 1280x1024 window inside of my screen though, that would be great.

 

[Mystiqq]

I read somewhere that the "stretching" issues arent as big of a problem now than with the older lcds, since the graphics cards support all sorts of scaling now. So even if the display doesnt have "built-in" scaling stuff, its very likely that they are supported from the graphics card.

 

[siera]

Hi,

I'm looking for a 19'', standard aspect ratio (5:4) LCD. I'm and electrical engineering student and spend most of my time writing papers and programming. I would also use my LCD to edit photos in Photoshop. I don't play games and almost never watch movies on my computer.

I have a maximum budget of 350$, but I would prefer something around 300$.

I was thinking of the Viewsonic vp930b, but they are almost impossible to get where I live. I was also considering the Samsung 940B.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks,
siera

 

[EricBurger]

Hey, I'm looking for a good 19"-22" 4:3 monitor for art/photo editing.

I have a Dell 2005FPW now, but I wasn't careful of burn-in, and it has backlight problems, and I don't like the extra desktop space. Anyway, I was looking through your photo editing recomendations and only one of them is 4:3, and it doesn't support VESA mounts, which I require. So I'd like something with good colors, good contrast, 8ms or less(if possible), and VESA support.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks!

 

[xtknight]

Upon reading some reviews of the ViewSonic VP2030b, I came across one that said the grayscale flickered a bit. This confirms that this 20" P-MVA is yet another 6-bit panel. Previously I had not even known that these existed. However, that only makes sense as I see the exact same flickering he's talking about on my VP930b (6-bit P-MVA).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
Correct, im not from the US.

Dell might be pretty good, but the problem is that this thing isnt sold locally for some reason. Only buying it directly from Dell seems to be the only option but as i checked their prices, i laughed and exited.

Ive checked, and checked again. There seems to be very few real options besides the HP. Pretty much only "contender" is the LG L2000C(-SF).

Another one of the other options ive seen people tangle with has been the NEC LCD2070NX, costs over 600? here so its a "nono", which by the way seems to be pretty close to the HP in performance wise and is less noisy...

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/20inch_4.html

I just dont know anymore.

Well, the L2000C isn't bad at all. It is a 6-bit S-IPS, reportedly, but as a result its response time is good. There have been some reports of banding though. It's certainly better than any TN out there and I recommend you give it a try. There is also the VP2030b, also a 6-bit but good otherwise.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: tornadog

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: tornadog
any opinions on the Soyo 19" DYLM 1998 LCD, 8 ms, 600:1, black?

Nope, I have heard nothing of it. Is there a reason you're considering it over other 19" value models?

I found it for $120 AR, and the rebate amount is smaller than the 100 rebate for the hanns-G

If you really want to risk it, I say go for it but if I were you I'd pony up an extra ~$80 just to be sure I was happy. This is $180: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16824001076

And the 940BF is an excellent model. This is the 17" version of it. If you have a 21" CRT right now (according to your rig specs) I think you'd be disappointed with a smaller LCD at a lower resolution. I say save up for a 20" widescreen like the LG L204WT.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad

I believe the FPD2485W has 1:1 pixel mapping, meaning it can center a smaller resolution into its native one, making your video card render far less pixels. The image will be surrounded by black/non-drawing area though.

Can the NEC 20WMGX2 do this? One of the main things that concerned me was trying to play an old game or something that didn't support widescreen, and running into issues like it stretching the image. If I could let it sit inside of the 1280x1024 window inside of my screen though, that would be great.

No, the 20WMGX2 can not do 1:1 over DVI or VGA. NVIDIA video cards can, but support is spotty with ATI cards. I am not sure of the current situation. See this thread for updates on that: http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1969631&enterthread=y

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: siera
Hi,

I'm looking for a 19'', standard aspect ratio (5:4) LCD. I'm and electrical engineering student and spend most of my time writing papers and programming. I would also use my LCD to edit photos in Photoshop. I don't play games and almost never watch movies on my computer.

I have a maximum budget of 350$, but I would prefer something around 300$.

I was thinking of the Viewsonic vp930b, but they are almost impossible to get where I live. I was also considering the Samsung 940B.

Do you have any suggestions?

Thanks,
siera

Here in the US the Samsung 971P is $340, and it's an excellent LCD for photo editing and everything else. Where do you live? LCD availability (and certainly price) varies widely among countries. The next LCD I would suggest is the Samsung 940BF. The 940B (non-F version) is very slow in response time. Even if you don't game, that will be annoying.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: EricBurger
Hey, I'm looking for a good 19"-22" 4:3 monitor for art/photo editing.

I have a Dell 2005FPW now, but I wasn't careful of burn-in, and it has backlight problems, and I don't like the extra desktop space. Anyway, I was looking through your photo editing recomendations and only one of them is 4:3, and it doesn't support VESA mounts, which I require. So I'd like something with good colors, good contrast, 8ms or less(if possible), and VESA support.

Does anyone have any other suggestions? Thanks!

1. Dell 2007FP
2. NEC LCD2070NX

I wasn't aware the HP was unmountable, so I will recommend these (in the above order) as alternatives in the photo editing section.

 

[acrabb]

I am sure it is somewhere in this thread, but I have been unable to find out how to tell which panel is in the Dell 2007 WFP that I received. If someone could instruct (or point me to that info), I would be most appreciative. Thanks.

 

[Mystiqq]

Im about 95% sure ill be ordering the HP LP2065, so ill see how that works out. First LCD and old display is 19" diamontron. Im probably in for a shock, one way or the other.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: acrabb
I am sure it is somewhere in this thread, but I have been unable to find out how to tell which panel is in the Dell 2007 WFP that I received. If someone could instruct (or point me to that info), I would be most appreciative. Thanks.

On earlier revisions you could just go to the service menu and it would be listed at the top as SAM, SMS, SMG for Samsung (PVA) and LPL for LG Philips LCD (S-IPS). More info here for later revs: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1111100&highlight=panel+lottery

 

[siera]

Here in the US the Samsung 971P is $340, and it's an excellent LCD for photo editing and everything else. Where do you live? LCD availability (and certainly price) varies widely among countries. The next LCD I would suggest is the Samsung 940BF. The 940B (non-F version) is very slow in response time. Even if you don't game, that will be annoying.

Thanks for the info,

I live in Quebec, Canada. Unfortunatly, the 971P is about $535 CAN (approx. $450 US) which is over my budget.

Another LCD with the same price as the 940BF is the LG L1932TX-BF. The specs are pretty much the same, except that the LG has a contrast ratio of 1400:1 (can I trust LG specs on contrast because they same much higher than the other brands?).

One last question, for the same price as the 940BF, I can also get the 931C. Is this a good display and is the 97% NTSC color gamut really worth it?

Thanks,
siera

 

[acrabb]

Thank you so much - no wonder I could not find this info after several hours of seaching (I never would have "stumbled" on that combo). Now, the sad news - I have a V1B18/PM330, which based on the first post in the link you provided, has "strong evidence" that it is a S-PVA. I purchased this so that I would not have to rely on my laptop monitor for photo editing - I do sell photos; so, I do calibrate (color is the key for me - I really dont care too much about response times). I had read somewhere that it appeared S-IPS panels were in models shipping from Nashville, TN - well, that's where mine shipped from too. Now, back to the drawing boards - I guess a highly acclaimed 20" S-IPS for ~$300 was just too good to be true.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: acrabb
Thank you so much - no wonder I could not find this info after several hours of seaching (I never would have "stumbled" on that combo). Now, the sad news - I have a V1B18/PM330, which based on the first post in the link you provided, has "strong evidence" that it is a S-PVA. I purchased this so that I would not have to rely on my laptop monitor for photo editing - I do sell photos; so, I do calibrate (color is the key for me - I really dont care too much about response times). I had read somewhere that it appeared S-IPS panels were in models shipping from Nashville, TN - well, that's where mine shipped from too. Now, back to the drawing boards - I guess a highly acclaimed 20" S-IPS for ~$300 was just too good to be true.

I would say the only companies that actually care about quality anymore are NEC, Mitsubishi, Sony, and Samsung. Samsung doesn't use S-IPS panels, and Sony's LCD division is going downhill. They also have limited availability in the US. So, in effect, I can say that if a cheaper 20" S-IPS does not come from one of those companies, it will not come from anywhere. That is, unless Dell stops pulling this lottery on us. They used to be the only reasonably-priced S-IPS LCD source.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: siera

Here in the US the Samsung 971P is $340, and it's an excellent LCD for photo editing and everything else. Where do you live? LCD availability (and certainly price) varies widely among countries. The next LCD I would suggest is the Samsung 940BF. The 940B (non-F version) is very slow in response time. Even if you don't game, that will be annoying.

Thanks for the info,

I live in Quebec, Canada. Unfortunatly, the 971C is about $535 CAN (approx. $450 US) which is over my budget.

Another LCD with the same price as the 940BF is the LG L1932TX-BF. The specs are pretty much the same, except that the LG has a contrast ratio of 1400:1 (can I trust LG specs on contrast because they same much higher than the other brands?).

One last question, for the same price as the 940BF, I can also get the 931C. Is this a good display and is the 97% NTSC color gamut really worth it?

Thanks,
siera

The 970P wouldn't happen to be any cheaper, would it?

The LG features a dynamic contrast feature, which isn't suitable for photo editing. Your contrast will be changing depending on what picture you're looking at. Since I'm unsure whether you can disable it on that model, get the Samsung 940BF, which I am sure is a decent model. As long as you're looking at TN panels, check out the Samsung 205BW as well if you want a bigger screen, because it may just be available for a good price. Its color reproduction is better than the 940BF. You did say you wanted 5:4, although the 20" widescreen is bigger in both width and height resolution than the 940BF and has a much better dot pitch, allowing finer reproduction of photos. It is physically shorter.

Here are comprehensive reviews of each LCD:

Samsung 970P: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/response-compensation_12.html
Samsung 940BF: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/19inch-4_24.html
Samsung 205BW: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/other/display/20-21inch-3_5.html

I would not recommend the 931C. The wider gamut is not good for editing photos if you have traditionally been using the sRGB color space. And the fact that it's a TN makes it even worse for editing sRGB photos in 97% color space. A monitor with 97% color gamut can display the same amount of colors as one with 72%. With 97%, the colors which it can display are spaced farther apart. That means, you lose color accuracy, and that is certainly the case with the 931C. Its color accuracy is very poor even if it can reach out to more intense colors at the farther ends of the spectrum.

 

[acrabb]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: acrabb
Thank you so much - no wonder I could not find this info after several hours of seaching (I never would have "stumbled" on that combo). Now, the sad news - I have a V1B18/PM330, which based on the first post in the link you provided, has "strong evidence" that it is a S-PVA. I purchased this so that I would not have to rely on my laptop monitor for photo editing - I do sell photos; so, I do calibrate (color is the key for me - I really dont care too much about response times). I had read somewhere that it appeared S-IPS panels were in models shipping from Nashville, TN - well, that's where mine shipped from too. Now, back to the drawing boards - I guess a highly acclaimed 20" S-IPS for ~$300 was just too good to be true.

I would say the only companies that actually care about quality anymore are NEC, Mitsubishi, Sony, and Samsung. Samsung doesn't use S-IPS panels, and Sony's LCD division is going downhill. They also have limited availability in the US. So, in effect, I can say that if a cheaper 20" S-IPS does not come from one of those companies, it will not come from anywhere. That is, unless Dell stops pulling this lottery on us. They used to be the only reasonably-priced S-IPS LCD source.

Does the Philips Brilliance 200W6CB Monitor contain the same S-IPS as the Dell (for the lucky ones)? I am guessing that it might (but since it doesnt exactly match something I saw on the dk site, I would not go out on a limb). If so, what is your opinon on this monitor (fwiw - Wolf Camera has it for ~$430 - http://www.wolfcamera.com/product/EP5168201.htm? Of course, that's not such a good deal if it's not a good monitor I sure wish that I had won the lottery!

 

[EricBurger]

Originally posted by: xtknight

1. Dell 2007FP
2. NEC LCD2070NX

I wasn't aware the HP was unmountable, so I will recommend these (in the above order) as alternatives in the photo editing section.

Oh damn, there were two, weren't there? The HP is mountable, the Samsung is not. I just forgot about it. Sorry for the confusion.

But thanks for the help!

 

[Matt2]

I got my S-IPS 2007wfp from Dell about six months ago first try. Sorry to hear about getting PVAs.

Besides viewing angle, any other significant drawbacks from using PVA?

 

[Matt2]

I'm not sure if xtknight mentioned it anywhere (no way am I reading through 60+ pages) but if you want to know what kind of panel your Dell 2007wfp has, check the service menu.

If you have an S-IPS panel it should say "LM201W01".

If you have an S-PVA panel the first three characters will be "LTM" (I cant think of the rest of the code).

I seem to remember seeing something on the net about Dell masking the panel numbers in the service menu in later revisions (mine is A00). So let us know what yours says.

xtknight: I know LG/Phillips lists the LM201W01 S-IPS panel at 8ms response time grey to grey. Has this response time been measured and confirmed?

I feel really bad about Dell making us play the panel lottery game. I've recommended this LCD to a lot people since I got it, I hope everyone has gotten the S-IPS version.

EDIT: After a little bit of research, I found that the newer revision 2007wfps wont tell you the panel model in the service menu, but Dell gives a different number to indicate the panel being used. "RT803" should be the code for LG/Phillips S-IPS and "PM330" is the code for S-PVA panels.

From what I've read, PVA panels are rampant in the A03 revisions, but a quick google search turned up a couple of different people getting Rev. A03 S-IPS panels first try. So, if you dont mind sending it back once or twice, the 2007wfp may still be worth a look.

 

[acrabb]

Originally posted by: Matt2
I'm not sure if xtknight mentioned it anywhere (no way am I reading through 60+ pages) but if you want to know what kind of panel your Dell 2007wfp has, check the service menu.
...

EDIT: After a little bit of research, I found that the newer revision 2007wfps wont tell you the panel model in the service menu, but Dell gives a different number to indicate the panel being used. "RT803" should be the code for LG/Phillips S-IPS and "PM330" is the code for S-PVA panels.

xtknight provided a link (up about 8 posts) of how to do this - thanks again to xtknight for sharing this information. The link also has several pages, but everything that you need to know is on the first page. Unfortunately, I received a PM330 - Dell code for "no winner this time - please play again".