LCD Buyer's Guide

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Sorry to beg to differ with you on this one. This is not true. I ran into a situation at work due to this. The Dell monitors that we had been ordering would only accept a DVI-D connection. The monitor cord was built into the LCD panel (i.e. we couldn't just remove it), and we needed to connect this monitor to a video card that only had DVI-A output. This simply does not work. Since the monitor would not read the analog signal since Dell decided they could save about $10 and not include the capabilities for an analog input, the guy was SOL and had to have a special order made for a different monitor.

You're right. Any graphics card with DVI-D output can hook up to any LCD that inputs DVI-D (unless there is an EDID bug/issue).

Out of curiosity, what card outputs only DVI-A?

 

[CheesePoofs]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
So the LG is a 6-bit panel but does 16.7million colors? I'm assuming it still can't be as good as an 8-bit panel, but would the difference be especially noticeable?

That and do you know of any places to get it online? Seems circuit city is the only store to carry it.

Thanks a lot for the help.

It is a 6-bit panel and does indeed do 16.7M (via FRC). It still isn't as good as an 8-bit panel due to dithering/FRC.

Circuit City actually is the only carrier of this LCD (in the US), to my knowledge.

So I'm really bad at actually buying things, so do you know of any real reviews of this besides the one you linked to? I wasn't able to find any from searching.

Also, I've never bought an LCD before, but if I went into Circuit City, would they let me try out the individual monitors before purchasing one to choose the one I liked the best? And do you know if they'd be ok with me running one of the programs to check for dead pixels as well?

Thanks a ton for you're help

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: CheesePoofs
So I'm really bad at actually buying things, so do you know of any real reviews of this besides the one you linked to? I wasn't able to find any from searching.

Also, I've never bought an LCD before, but if I went into Circuit City, would they let me try out the individual monitors before purchasing one to choose the one I liked the best? And do you know if they'd be ok with me running one of the programs to check for dead pixels as well?

Thanks a ton for you're help

I have no idea as I have always ordered my LCDs from Newegg (though the L204WT is not available there either). It may depend on the particular store. I'd think that if you opened and used the LCD you'd either have to pay the 15% restocking fee or take it home.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Sorry to beg to differ with you on this one. This is not true. I ran into a situation at work due to this. The Dell monitors that we had been ordering would only accept a DVI-D connection. The monitor cord was built into the LCD panel (i.e. we couldn't just remove it), and we needed to connect this monitor to a video card that only had DVI-A output. This simply does not work. Since the monitor would not read the analog signal since Dell decided they could save about $10 and not include the capabilities for an analog input, the guy was SOL and had to have a special order made for a different monitor.

You're right. Any graphics card with DVI-D output can hook up to any LCD that inputs DVI-D (unless there is an EDID bug/issue).

Out of curiosity, what card outputs only DVI-A?

Many of the cheap Sun OS versions using the ATI Radeon chips. And the supper cheap Silicon Image cards that we get for replacement boards when something fails.


On another note, I purchased a NEC 20WMGX2 last night from Dell (15% off, free-shipping, $50 rebate, hard to beat). I am looking forward to it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Fallen Kell
Many of the cheap Sun OS versions using the ATI Radeon chips. And the supper cheap Silicon Image cards that we get for replacement boards when something fails.


On another note, I purchased a NEC 20WMGX2 last night from Dell (15% off, free-shipping, $50 rebate, hard to beat). I am looking forward to it.

Dell sells 20WMGX2s? Wow, now with their excellent return policies no one has an excuse.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Yeah. That was one of the factors in me buying the monitor. I was simply looking around in the electronics and accessories pages because I knew of the 15% off going on, and there it was. The added bonus was the rebate was also available that NEC is offering. I think Dell just became an authorized dealer as they are not listed on the NEC page for the $50 rebate, but NEC made a specific rebate for Dell which is the exactly the same as the rebate they have been offering, only specifically stating that dell.com is the place of purchase.

 

[Butterbean]

I returmed a Dell this week (my second). I looked to make an exchange first and I didn't see the 20WMGX2 listed (specifically checked for that model). Now I see its up there for 639 USD. I see the rebate but no 15% off mention.

Dell still has to credit me but I don't think I want to buy anything from them after last month of fiasco. I went to Circuit City today to look at 20WMGX2 and buy it if I wasn't bothered by the gloss but it wasn't in stock. Actually they haven't had it in stock all month (it is on their site).

An odd thing about the 20WMGX2 is that of the few reviews on it, a fair few of them dismiss it either because of cost, glare or both. However one thing I noticed while I was at Circuit City was that all the new laptops they had on display were glossy. The HP's, the Toshibas and others were all glossy, and I couldn't even see a low glare unit. I also know the NEC isn't cheap but it does come with speakers and a TV tuner and remote where the others don't.

 

[Frankie]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
I returmed a Dell this week (my second). I looked to make an exchange first and I didn't see the 20WMGX2 listed (specifically checked for that model). Now I see its up there for 639 USD. I see the rebate but no 15% off mention.

Dell still has to credit me but I don't think I want to buy anything from them after last month of fiasco. I went to Circuit City today to look at 20WMGX2 and buy it if I wasn't bothered by the gloss but it wasn't in stock. Actually they haven't had it in stock all month (it is on their site).

An odd thing about the 20WMGX2 is that of the few reviews on it, a fair few of them dismiss it either because of cost, glare or both. However one thing I noticed while I was at Circuit City was that all the new laptops they had on display were glossy. The HP's, the Toshibas and others were all glossy, and I couldn't even see a low glare unit. I also know the NEC isn't cheap but it does come with speakers and a TV tuner and remote where the others don't.

The gloss is not a problem. Unless you are looking for a reflection, and I mean REALLY looking hard and on a black screen, you won't see one. That was my concern as well, but I'm happy I got the NEC

 

[Butterbean]

Thanks. I have been on a CRT for past 4 years so a glossy screen wont freak me out. I already knew to keep lights away from directly behind etc. Today I saw some photos of the NEC 20WMGXS and I like it even more. One photo Taken by a person at Hard forum) shows the glossy screen with flash right on it and I could live with that considering the better quality:

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/729/site1052weweyc9.jpg

Hopefully for Viewsonic sake the model next to the NEC is a lower model because its getting whupped bad in that pic.


Now the problem is I also see any week now NEC will release new 22 and 24 inch monitors. A 24 might be nice, but then after looking at the Westinghouse I might just want that for a larger monitor. A 37' true 8 Bit for 1100? I would think there has to be a joke somewhere but people who have them love them. I could never buy a 700 Dell 24" inch after seeing these other monitors

When the new NEC's come out will the 20WMGXS be retired? Is that why its on rebate eveyhwere?

 

[Kung Foo]

Got my new Philips 200WP7ES now, and I must say that its just what I expected

Here's a brief panel review:
[*] The panel itself seems to be great. I've not checked what the panel type/code is, but at least it seems to behave like a good S-IPS panel. If someone knows how to enter the Philips service menu, I'd be happy to check the panel type if its shown in there.
[*] Blacks are really good. The panel performs well on xtknight's dark grayscale test and contrast test on LCD monitor test images. Grey & color gradients are also perfect
[*] Colors in general are good. The default settings are decent, but with a bit of twaaking, the picture is now a tad better. Seems that as a former CRT user, I like my white level a bit lower than what LCD manufacturers do.
[*] The stand is firm. It has a metal base, and good adjustments. Tilt, swivel, pivot and height adjustments are great.
[*] OSD is adequate. There's e.g. the brightness, contrast and color settings and then some other stuff, but no (useless) "mode settings" for gaming or such. Colors have options for factory defaults, 9300K preset, 6500K preset, sRGB, and user defined RGB levels.
[*] Response time seems to be good enough. I didnt notice any ghosting in the few games I tried.
[*] Backlight is quite uniform, and there is not much backlight bleed. When viewed in a dark room, a slight X figure can be seen, but this is not visible when there's even some dark picture in screen.

I'd recommend this display for general use for those looking for an LCD having 8-bit color (S-IPS) panel.
Price range is somewhere 380-480? in EU, which IMHO is quite reasonable for an LCD of this type. Now that Dell 2007WFP is out of the question due to the panel lottery, there's not much other choices on S-IPS panels in this price group.

 

[Mem]

Interesting news on AU Optronics next gen A-MVA.

Advanced MVA (A-MVA) - Next Generation VA Technology

AU Optronics have recently been working on their next generation of MVA (Multi-Domain Vertical Alignment) panel technology, termed 'Advanced MVA' (A-MVA). This is designed to offer improved performance including reduced colour washout conquer the significant problem of color distortion with traditional wide viewing angle technology. This technology creates more domains than conventional multi-domain vertical alignment (MVA) LCDs and reduces the variation of transmittance in oblique angles. It productively improves color washout and provides better image quality in oblique angles than conventional VA LCDs. Also, it has been widely recognized worldwide that AMVA technology is one of the few ways to provide optimized image quality through multiple domains.

In addition, A-MVA provides an extra-high contrast ratio of greater than 1200:1 (reaching 2500:1 at time of writing) by optimized color-resist implementation and a new pixel design. The result is a more comfortable viewing experience for the consumer, even on dimmer images. This high contrast technology can also achieve wide viewing angles of up to 178 degrees. AMVA, which the Company believes to be the most competitive solution in low color washout technology, has been applied to AUO TV panels ranging from 32" up to 42", and has attracted widespread attention among global brand-name TV customers in the United States, Europe and Japan.


Simulated Pulsed Driving' (ASPD) - Motion Blur Reduction

AUO's 'Simulated Pulsed Driving' (ASPD) technology is designed to solve the issue of motion blur in liquid crystal displays. AUO's Simulated Pulsed Driving (SPD) technology simulates impulse-type displays with the adjustment of pixel driving and scanning backlight to reach a CRT-like image quality in motion picture response time. The technology can greatly reduce motion blur, and enable the image performance to reach optimal levels at 4ms equivalent gray to gray (8ms MPRT). The technology is also known as one of the few technologies ready for mass production and can be applied both to WXGA (1366x768) or Full HD (1920x1080) resolutions.

HiColor Technology and LED Backlighting - Improved Colour Richness and Gamut Range

The new HiColor Technology with LED backlight can reach 105% NTSC ? a 45% increase from conventional 72% NTSC. It also provides the true natural performance of Red, Green and Blue and enables brighter, richer, and more vivid display colors. In addition, AUO has adopted specific techniques to enhance the image performance of the LED backlight. The Color Management function can eliminate artificial colors caused by inconsistent chromaticity between light source and signal. The Gamut Enhancement function enhances and enriches colors. The Flexible Color Temperature Setting can change the intensity of the RGB LED to adjust the white point of backlight and meet the requirements of different applications with minimal luminance loss. Other advantages of LED backlights include instant light, low DC voltage, shock and vibration safe, fast response time, low temperature start, and an environmentally-friendly design that is both mercury and lead free.

AUO Picture Enhancer (APE) - Providing Sharp, Vivid Images and Clear Depth of View

This technology is designed to offer natural color images and clear depth of view. AUO's Image Processing Technology integrates the input image data management and the dynamic backlight control solution. The intrinsic image processing system circuit can dynamically adjust the contrast, sharpness, hue, color temperature, and color saturation to accommodate the image contents. Non-linear image processing can accommodate changes in the dynamics of human perception ideally used to overcome an existing problem with LCD TVs where a motion picture tends to loose its accuracy during darker states. AUO's Image Processing Technology enables vivid and sharp images, enhances color saturation, details in gray levels and contrast ratios, and retrieves natural colors. An added value of this technology is its energy and environmental conservation abilities as its dynamic backlight control function can automatically adjust the CCFL brightness.



Large-sized products will place emphasis on A-MVA technology with super wide viewing angle, HiColor technology with the achievement of color saturation, and ASPD technology with great motion picture quality; while medium-small sized- products will focus on high resolution and wide viewing angle. The BenQ VL4233 LCD TV (42" model) is expected to be the first featuring the new A-MVA panel technology. This will offer a spec of 8ms response time, 1200:1 contrast ratio, 500 cd/m2 brightness and 178/178 viewing angles. As a reminder, AUO form part of the BenQ group, and so will be in the front-runners of those using the newly devloped technologies.

Link and link on tech part.

xtknight what you make of this then?.......sounds very interesting to me and step in right direction .

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Now the problem is I also see any week now NEC will release new 22 and 24 inch monitors. A 24 might be nice, but then after looking at the Westinghouse I might just want that for a larger monitor. A 37' true 8 Bit for 1100? I would think there has to be a joke somewhere but people who have them love them. I could never buy a 700 Dell 24" inch after seeing these other monitors

I don't know about "any week now"...but they will hopefully come sometime remotely soon.

When the new NEC's come out will the 20WMGXS be retired? Is that why its on rebate eveyhwere?

I doubt they'll get rid of the 20WMGX2. The market for 20" monitors has got to be bigger than the one for 24"s. If I remember correctly, the bigger models were more aimed at photo editors, but that may only apply for the 26" model. I have not heard much about the 22" and 24" ones.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mem
Interesting news on AU Optronics next gen A-MVA.

...

xtknight what you make of this then?.......sounds very interesting to me and step in right direction .

They've announced these technologies months ago, and in fact I have had the A-MVA panel type listed for quite a while. These features look like they will only be implemented on 24"+ LCDs, but I can't say for sure one way or the other.

The 105% NTSC coverage is great, but not without an increase in bit-depth. When you work with 8-bit precision and a bigger space, you will have more variety of colors but not a bigger number of colors. Most media is made with 72% NTSC in mind, so media may not be nearly as accurate as it is with a 72% NTSC/8-bit LCD. I myself am not thrilled about getting an LCD with a higher gamut for that reason. Gradation (or banding) will be more noticeable with a higher gamut, too. Some colors might just have to snap to the same tone in the bigger gamut if they are so close together.

The ASPD (scanning backlight) is interesting, though BenQ and Samsung already have LCD monitors and TVs (respectively) with the technology, so it's nothing new.

The Picture Enhancer is just like the ACM in the Genesis DSP chip used in many of the Dells. It is not for the desktop user, at least in my mind, but instead for movies/TV.

A-MVA itself looks great, but I don't even know if it's better than Samsung's S-PVA technology (8-domain, and has been for years now). It could be 12-domain, I just don't know at this point. As I say it looks like it will be implemented only on big LCDs/TVs.

 

[Butterbean]

Thanks. I know what I am going to do now. Just need to decide between Best Buy or Newegg.

 

[QueBert]

got a Westy 22" for Xmas, know 22"'s in general have a few negatives, but it's replacing an old ass Dell 17" CRT and was a present so I'm happy.

any ways read threw some of the messages, well a lot but there are too many and I know the forum search is worthless. I have 2 questions.

I don't own a "TV" how would this lcd work as one, since it has Component inputs I was thinking of getting DirecTV and using it as a TV. I know 22" is sort of small for television, but I'm more concerned about quality when hooked to Component and how resolution is effected. Would it scale to 720p resolution well?

Does Xbox360 look good on this screen? read 2 peoples opinions elsewhere. One said it was great, the other bitched and moaned and claimed quality sucked due to scaling

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: QueBert
got a Westy 22" for Xmas, know 22"'s in general have a few negatives, but it's replacing an old ass Dell 17" CRT and was a present so I'm happy.

any ways read threw some of the messages, well a lot but there are too many and I know the forum search is worthless. I have 2 questions.

I don't own a "TV" how would this lcd work as one, since it has Component inputs I was thinking of getting DirecTV and using it as a TV. I know 22" is sort of small for television, but I'm more concerned about quality when hooked to Component and how resolution is effected. Would it scale to 720p resolution well?

This is largely a subjective thing. Some people are fine with the scaling. Others hate it. If your LCD has a 1:1 pixel mapping option (centered mode) that can eliminate the need to scale the image and instead just crop it.

Does Xbox360 look good on this screen? read 2 peoples opinions elsewhere. One said it was great, the other bitched and moaned and claimed quality sucked due to scaling

I'm not sure as I don't own one, and scaling varies widely among LCDs. I know I could live with the analog TV and HDTV scaling quality on my current LCD.

 

[Baloonsquad]

I just picked up an NEC 20WMGX2, and while I think it looks great and I love the features, it has a stuck green and a stuck red pixel around the middle of the screen. I heard once that NEC has a "no dead pixel" policy, but I also read that they have stricter policy than that. Does anyone have any first-hand experience with NEC's support regarding this kind of issue? I'm probably going to call tomorrow, but I'd like to know what I could expect beforehand.

 

[Rapishorrid]

Hello everyone. I am looking to replace my ancient CRT.

Price range: <$350

I want something that's at least a 19". I play a lot of games, but I don't want an LCD too tailored towards games if it compromises things like color, contrast etc. Basically I want something that I will notice minimal difference from my CRT in regards to gaming, but with good features other than just a nice response time. I was looking at the first two on the "gaming" section of the OP and some of the ones on the "multimedia" section. Thought I'd ask here

 

[imported_veracocha]

Hi;

The Samsung 971p is really s-pva panel ?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: veracocha
Hi;

The Samsung 971p is really s-pva panel ?

Yes, I am certain that the Samsung 971P contains a PVA or S-PVA panel and not a TN.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Baloonsquad
I just picked up an NEC 20WMGX2, and while I think it looks great and I love the features, it has a stuck green and a stuck red pixel around the middle of the screen. I heard once that NEC has a "no dead pixel" policy, but I also read that they have stricter policy than that. Does anyone have any first-hand experience with NEC's support regarding this kind of issue? I'm probably going to call tomorrow, but I'd like to know what I could expect beforehand.

Sorry, I'm not sure. I have never had to deal with any monitor company's support, but NEC's is supposed to be among the best, if not the best, when it comes to LCDs. Of course it can only be so good, you'll probably be waiting on the phone forever just like every company but unlike others they may let you exchange your LCD even if it has just one dead pixel.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Rapishorrid
Hello everyone. I am looking to replace my ancient CRT.

Price range: <$350

I want something that's at least a 19". I play a lot of games, but I don't want an LCD too tailored towards games if it compromises things like color, contrast etc. Basically I want something that I will notice minimal difference from my CRT in regards to gaming, but with good features other than just a nice response time. I was looking at the first two on the "gaming" section of the OP and some of the ones on the "multimedia" section. Thought I'd ask here

The LG L204WT sounds ideal for you, or the Samsung 205BW if availability for that is better in your area. I'd prefer the L204WT due to its better gamma settings and deeper black level. Both should have minimal backlight bleeding. The L204WT is $315 after rebate at Circuit City, which is the only place you can get it from.

 

[BassBomb]

hey xt i bought the 20WMGX2... now the wait until it arrives

600 CDN before taxes, 698 final ..

I cant wait, i hope its good ... im afraid of people poking it and stuff

very anxious

 

[imported_veracocha]

Yes, I am certain that the Samsung 971P contains a PVA or S-PVA panel and not a T

I know It doesn't use TN panel , but pva or s-pva ?

 

[Kindjal]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
hey xt i bought the 20WMGX2... now the wait until it arrives

600 CDN before taxes, 698 final ..

I cant wait, i hope its good ... im afraid of people poking it and stuff

very anxious

I just bought one too and I'm pacing around waiting for it!