LCD Buyer's Guide

[shinjikinomoto]

I've been lurking for a while. I'm interested in getting the LG Flatron L204WT, but I have a videocard question. I have a Radeon 8500LE right now, so I need to get something with DVI. I'm not much of a PC gamer. The last game I bought was Half Life 2, which runs decently @1024x768 on my system (2.6Ghz P4, 1GB RAM), so I was wondering if I could get a recomendation on something that's AGP and allow me to still play Half Life 2 at the native resoultion. I don't care if minimal options need to be on, just as long as it runs (mainly console gamer, so I only play HL2 once and awhile). I'll be using the monitor more for web browsing, dvd viewing, and other multimedia tasks. I know any $100 card will kill my current one, so suggestions are welcome. It just needs to be AGP.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: veracocha

Yes, I am certain that the Samsung 971P contains a PVA or S-PVA panel and not a T

I know It doesn't use TN panel , but pva or s-pva ?

According to Samsung it uses S-PVA. Do you wonder because of the viewing angle or color depth? I am not sure if it's actually just a regular PVA or not. Color depth might be 6-bit, I am just not sure. Whichever panel it is, the 971P's contrast and color reproduction is great.

It was tested at 1750:1 here with an awesome black level: http://www.flatpanels.dk/test.php?subac...ll&id=1166430756&archive=&start_from=&

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: shinjikinomoto
I've been lurking for a while. I'm interested in getting the LG Flatron L204WT, but I have a videocard question. I have a Radeon 8500LE right now, so I need to get something with DVI. I'm not much of a PC gamer. The last game I bought was Half Life 2, which runs decently @1024x768 on my system (2.6Ghz P4, 1GB RAM), so I was wondering if I could get a recomendation on something that's AGP and allow me to still play Half Life 2 at the native resoultion. I don't care if minimal options need to be on, just as long as it runs (mainly console gamer, so I only play HL2 once and awhile). I'll be using the monitor more for web browsing, dvd viewing, and other multimedia tasks. I know any $100 card will kill my current one, so suggestions are welcome. It just needs to be AGP.

As far as I know, this is a good AGP card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143046

But you'd be better off making a new thread in the Video forum, as this is just an LCD thread and I don't keep up with video cards much anymore.

 

[xPascalx]

Since my trusty old Sony CRT recently died on me, I have been looking for a new LCD.

I had decided to go for the Samsung 215TW up until I read about the horrible input lag that it suffors from, which in my mind makes it absolutely useless.

Then I figurred I would go for the NEC 20WGX2, but I then realised that it doesn't do aspect scaling, which I think is a major shortcoming.

I believe I read somewhere that Nvida cards can scale with black bars at the sides, so that it is not requiered by the screen. Can someone please comment on, how this works and if it is possible to do the same with ATI cards (was thinking about getting a x1950 Pro AGP).

Thank you in advance.

 

[imported_veracocha]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: veracocha

Yes, I am certain that the Samsung 971P contains a PVA or S-PVA panel and not a T

I know It doesn't use TN panel , but pva or s-pva ?

According to Samsung it uses S-PVA. Do you wonder because of the viewing angle or color depth? I am not sure if it's actually just a regular PVA or not. Color depth might be 6-bit, I am just not sure. Whichever panel it is, the 971P's contrast and color reproduction is great.

It was tested at 1750:1 here with an awesome black level: http://www.flatpanels.dk/test.php?subac...ll&id=1166430756&archive=&start_from=&

Thank you so much, Yes 971p is a great monitor and I'm using it , But I'm confused ,Is it use dithering or real 8 bit panel ? And I have a question for you ; Am I find prepared color profile for 971p ?

 

[rxblitzrx]

The HP LP2065 was rated #2 in several categories of the original post and, for the price, it seems like the best bang for the buck. I don't do any gaming, mostly just office work and DIVX movie watching. Would this be my best buy?

My computer is also a dinosaur but I've decided to hold on to it and get the LCD first. However, it's only AGP and doesn't have DVI output. Can you recommend a solution for this to compliment the new LCD? I'm willing to buy a new video card if necessary... just something to tide me over till I build my new rig, which will include a new (PCI-e) video card.

THANKS!!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xPascalx
Since my trusty old Sony CRT recently died on me, I have been looking for a new LCD.

Welcome to the forums.

I had decided to go for the Samsung 215TW up until I read about the horrible input lag that it suffors from, which in my mind makes it absolutely useless.

Then I figurred I would go for the NEC 20WGX2, but I then realised that it doesn't do aspect scaling, which I think is a major shortcoming.

Well, only if your card is not capable of doing the scaling itself, and only if it is not capable of performing well at a native resolution. Even with aspect scaling you still get considerably decreased quality so in my mind it's like omitting a feature that would have been low quality anyway. But that's not to say it would have been better than the scaling they have now. If I were you I'd just always use native no matter what. The X1950 Pro is a pretty powerful card.

I believe I read somewhere that Nvida cards can scale with black bars at the sides, so that it is not requiered by the screen.

That is true.

Can someone please comment on, how this works and if it is possible to do the same with ATI cards (was thinking about getting a x1950 Pro AGP).

People with ATI cards have reported varying success using centered mode. I don't even know if ATI has 'aspect ratio scaling', though. I avoid AMD/ATI cards as much as possible due to lack of better DFP scaling support (and other things like multi-monitor gamma settings).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: veracocha

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: veracocha

Yes, I am certain that the Samsung 971P contains a PVA or S-PVA panel and not a T

I know It doesn't use TN panel , but pva or s-pva ?

According to Samsung it uses S-PVA. Do you wonder because of the viewing angle or color depth? I am not sure if it's actually just a regular PVA or not. Color depth might be 6-bit, I am just not sure. Whichever panel it is, the 971P's contrast and color reproduction is great.

It was tested at 1750:1 here with an awesome black level: http://www.flatpanels.dk/test.php?subac...ll&id=1166430756&archive=&start_from=&

Thank you so much, Yes 971p is a great monitor and I'm using it , But I'm confused ,Is it use dithering or real 8 bit panel ? And I have a question for you ; Am I find prepared color profile for 971p ?

That I am not sure about. I believe it uses dithering, but I am not certain.

Generally a color profile is included on the bundled Samsung CD. However, I've had limited success with these profiles. You may be able to find a profile on the net that somebody posted after calibrating. The only way to be sure you're getting accurate colors is to calibrate your LCD unit with your own colorimeter. Other 971P users' settings may not match your monitor perfectly.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
The HP LP2065 was rated #2 in several categories of the original post and, for the price, it seems like the best bang for the buck. I don't do any gaming, mostly just office work and DIVX movie watching. Would this be my best buy?

Yup, it sounds like the best for your purposes.

My computer is also a dinosaur but I've decided to hold on to it and get the LCD first. However, it's only AGP and doesn't have DVI output. Can you recommend a solution for this to compliment the new LCD? I'm willing to buy a new video card if necessary... just something to tide me over till I build my new rig, which will include a new (PCI-e) video card.

THANKS!!

You could just use the VGA connection which generally isn't bad at all. Or you could get a cheap DVI AGP card: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814121542

 

[xboxist]

I bought my girlfriend the 20" LG for Christmas. Although her card (ATI 9600) appears to have some sort of a DVI connection, the monitor didn't come with a cable for it. So she's hooked up via VGA right now.

What kind of difference or improvement can she expect if she goes digital? Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xboxist
I bought my girlfriend the 20" LG for Christmas. Although her card (ATI 9600) appears to have some sort of a DVI connection, the monitor didn't come with a cable for it. So she's hooked up via VGA right now.

What kind of difference or improvement can she expect if she goes digital? Thanks.

That depends totally on the quality of the video card's RAMDAC and the L204WT's VGA input mechanism. I would get a DVI cable just in case there were a major difference. If not major, you can expect minor improvements.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Just picked up a HP LP2065 from the Egg. After rebate it cost me $385.00 to plug it in. I have high hopes for this LCD and I owe it to this review/guide. Don't let the 10 post rating fool you, I've been a member of Anandtech since 1998 and I think the people here are well informed, educated, and helpful. Thanks again for the help!

Look me up if you guys ever need a pharmacist.

 

[Mystiqq]

Got my HP LP2065 (DOA) replacement yesterday, which i returned back today, and it had same problem as the previous but in the other corner. Both had severe problems with the backlight. I tested and "twisted" the monitor lightly and 80% of the backlight bleed disappeared. I bet anyone with half a brain could fix this problem themselfs with the "Dell fix", but it will likely void the warranty though...

Anyways, im pretty amazed how bad these two were. Lets see if the third one is any better, with my luck its same crap or it has perfect backlight but plenty of pixel errors. Neither of the previous two had any kind of pixel errors. Only thing ive been satisfied yet has been the warranty service with HP. They havent given me any problems what so ever...

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Just picked up a HP LP2065 from the Egg. After rebate it cost me $385.00 to plug it in. I have high hopes for this LCD and I owe it to this review/guide. Don't let the 10 post rating fool you, I've been a member of Anandtech since 1998 and I think the people here are well informed, educated, and helpful. Thanks again for the help!

Look me up if you guys ever need a pharmacist.

Does your unit have any problems with the backlight?

 

[Rapishorrid]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The LG L204WT sounds ideal for you, or the Samsung 205BW if availability for that is better in your area. I'd prefer the L204WT due to its better gamma settings and deeper black level. Both should have minimal backlight bleeding. The L204WT is $315 after rebate at Circuit City, which is the only place you can get it from.

Thanks for the advice xt. The L204WT sounds great except I am worried a little about the native resolution. IIRC the native res is 1680x1050, so would that mean that I'd have to run all my games at that? (or at least to make them look decent) Sorry I am a bit new to LCD's, that's why I am here!

But if that's the case, can you recommend any 19" non-widescreen lcd's for my purposes?

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
Got my HP LP2065 (DOA) replacement yesterday, which i returned back today, and it had same problem as the previous but in the other corner. Both had severe problems with the backlight. I tested and "twisted" the monitor lightly and 80% of the backlight bleed disappeared. I bet anyone with half a brain could fix this problem themselfs with the "Dell fix", but it will likely void the warranty though...

Anyways, im pretty amazed how bad these two were. Lets see if the third one is any better, with my luck its same crap or it has perfect backlight but plenty of pixel errors. Neither of the previous two had any kind of pixel errors. Only thing ive been satisfied yet has been the warranty service with HP. They havent given me any problems what so ever...

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Just picked up a HP LP2065 from the Egg. After rebate it cost me $385.00 to plug it in. I have high hopes for this LCD and I owe it to this review/guide. Don't let the 10 post rating fool you, I've been a member of Anandtech since 1998 and I think the people here are well informed, educated, and helpful. Thanks again for the help!

Look me up if you guys ever need a pharmacist.

Does your unit have any problems with the backlight?

You got yours at Newegg? I haven't received mine yet but I'll definitely let you know when it comes in.

You had to send yours back to HP?

How can I diagnose the problems you speak of?

 

[rxblitzrx]

You know, I'm starting to wonder if I made a bad decision. That Samsung 215TW is starting to look really attractive but it has a S-PVA panel. SIPS should be better right?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
You know, I'm starting to wonder if I made a bad decision. That Samsung 215TW is starting to look really attractive but it has a S-PVA panel. SIPS should be better right?

No, you made a great decision. I don't think I could stand input lag to be honest, so I'd only use the 215TW for watching movies. For anything else it would be too bothersome.

 

[Butterbean]

A consideration I have had: What would be a good monitor (20 inchs or over) to use with a high def camcorder (like the Canon HV10 which records in 1080/60i - a resolution of 1920 x 1080 at 60 interlaced fields per second)? I keep reading about "twinkling" with a S-IPS monitor like the NEC 20WMGX2. Would the 24" BenQ be better for high def video? A Westy? Thanks for any info. It hard to google anything up for this.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Rapishorrid
Thanks for the advice xt. The L204WT sounds great except I am worried a little about the native resolution. IIRC the native res is 1680x1050, so would that mean that I'd have to run all my games at that? (or at least to make them look decent) Sorry I am a bit new to LCD's, that's why I am here!

You have two options and a few sub-options:

a) send the monitor a 1680x1050 native signal
_1) by having your video card process 1680x1050 (perfect quality)
_2) by having your video card process a lower resolution
____options for NVIDIA cards: aspect ratio scaling, centered mode, regular scaling (lowest quality)
____options for ATI cards: centered timings (does not always work properly) and regular scaling

b) send the monitor a lower resolution (you're at the mercy of the monitor's scaler and scaling options on this one)
____options for monitor: varies (some offer aspect ratio, 1:1 [centered mode], and regular scaling)

Got that? Good. The point is, you will have to sacrifice the image somehow for it to be displayed on a 1680x1050 pixel matrix. Centered mode just places it in the center and surrounds the image with black bars, but the quality is obviously 1:1 because the image itself is the same size. Aspect ratio scaling should be higher quality than regular scaling. It just scales up one dimension and leaves black bars around the other. It maintains the aspect ratio (width/height) of the image to preserve as much quality as possible. But it still doesn't look that great for most things.

The video card should be able to scale any resolution, but the monitor can only scale a select few presets put in place by the manufacturer. Most can scale at least three of these: 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1280x800, 1280x960, 1280x1024, 1440x900, 1440x1050. For LCDs, I would aim to push a 1680x1050 image at lower image quality settings instead of using high settings at a low resolution. I couldn't stand being at non-native for any prolonged period of time for 90% of the things I do (mainly just desktop usage, and the scaling is only OK for a couple primitive games).

But if that's the case, can you recommend any 19" non-widescreen lcd's for my purposes?

The NEC MultiSync 90GX2 (first) and Samsung SyncMaster 940BF.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mystiqq
Got my HP LP2065 (DOA) replacement yesterday, which i returned back today, and it had same problem as the previous but in the other corner. Both had severe problems with the backlight. I tested and "twisted" the monitor lightly and 80% of the backlight bleed disappeared. I bet anyone with half a brain could fix this problem themselfs with the "Dell fix", but it will likely void the warranty though...

Well, I hope you receive one from a better batch next time. That's odd as S-IPS panels are usually the best in uniformity, by far. The S-IPS Dell 2007FP (same panel) I've seen was excellent. But they're using PVAs occasionally now, so I can't recommend that. That's the problem with LCDs. You never really know what you're getting when you open the box. Dead pixels, poor uniformity, etc... quality control is very difficult and you can only choose the LCDs that seem to have less prevalence of these issues...but then there's bad batches and what not to complicate that.

Originally posted by: Butterbean
A consideration I have had: What would be a good monitor (20 inchs or over) to use with a high def camcorder (like the Canon HV10 which records in 1080/60i - a resolution of 1920 x 1080 at 60 interlaced fields per second)? I keep reading about "twinkling" with a S-IPS monitor like the NEC 20WMGX2. Would the 24" BenQ be better for high def video? A Westy? Thanks for any info. It hard to google anything up for this.

Twinkling is just a side effect of how high-contrast the thing is. In other words if you see twinkling your source media is at fault. It's nothing in the matrix that's out-of-sync or anything. It's doing what it's supposed to do and it should not be counted against the LCD. Sure you don't have the issue with CRTs but you also give up fine image details with that subtle blurriness. I've watched several movies on this screen and I have yet to see one where the twinkling was remotely bothersome (or even noticeable in a lot of conditions).

The BenQ FP241W would be awesome for high-def if you want something big. For something smaller, the NEC 20WMGX2 would be even awesomer.

I haven't had a chance to test any real high-quality video on the 20WMGX2, but the deinterlacer seems fine to me after viewing some analog TV and some 1080i OTA HDTV (which is usually upscaled 720p though). I think that you can turn deinterlacing on and off using the "I/P on/off" option. It's hard to tell exactly what that does, but it sounds like "interlace/progressive".

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
You know, I'm starting to wonder if I made a bad decision. That Samsung 215TW is starting to look really attractive but it has a S-PVA panel. SIPS should be better right?

No, you made a great decision. I don't think I could stand input lag to be honest, so I'd only use the 215TW for watching movies. For anything else it would be too bothersome.

1600 x 1200. OK, so I'm trying that resolution on my 22" Dell CRT. The viewable screen is approximately 20" which would be the same as the new 20" LCD. My DIVX movies are all around 600 x 300. What I'd like to do is watch the movie on half the screen, and put my browser on the other half. However, if the movie is taking up 600 pixels (wide) that only leaves me 1000 pixels to display the internet browser (but it's also 1200 pixels long)

That's a lot of up and down looking that makes either my neck or my eyes work too much. I'm starting to think 80 extra pixels wide and 150 less long would be a better choice.

Ideas???


Maybe I can refuse the HP LCD before it gets here and then buy the NEC once the original order gets refunded. Does anyone know if NewEgg will do that?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
1600 x 1200. OK, so I'm trying that resolution on my 22" Dell CRT. The viewable screen is approximately 20" which would be the same as the new 20" LCD. My DIVX movies are all around 600 x 300. What I'd like to do is watch the movie on half the screen, and put my browser on the other half. However, if the movie is taking up 600 pixels (wide) that only leaves me 1000 pixels to display the internet browser (but it's also 1200 pixels long)

You get more area with a 1600x1200 screen. I don't really see how going to 1680x1050 is beneficial for what you're doing. I would just put the movie player window in a PIP-like position, set its 'always on top' style, and deal with the concealed portions of your browser window.

That's a lot of up and down looking that makes either my neck or my eyes work too much. I'm starting to think 80 extra pixels wide and 150 less long would be a better choice.

Perhaps. If you were to exchange it for anything else I would get nothing less than the NEC 20WMGX2 because otherwise you'd regret it.

Ideas???

Maybe I can refuse the HP LCD before it gets here and then buy the NEC once the original order gets refunded. Does anyone know if NewEgg will do that?

If it's already been shipped, you can't cancel it from online anymore. It's not in Newegg's hands after that so I don't know how they'd do anything about it. They may let you send it back without the restocking fee if you haven't opened anything. Whatever the case I hope you're happy with something. Don't have too much buyer's remorse. You'll screw your mind up that way by thinking it's always greener on the other side. If you're disappointed with the resolution setup of the HP then go for the widescreen 20WMGX2. I would try it first, as the HP is giving you more screen area. Both are great in image quality, but the 20WMGX2 still has a considerable edge there, but also in price.

 

[Jodiuh]

I cancelled a shipment from newegg via UPS, and it setup an auto RMA in which I paid no restocking fee. Def call to 2x check tho.

 

[Butterbean]

Thanks xtknight, I bought the NEC20WMGX2 today. There was a $50 USD rebate until Sunday and then today Best Buy also dropped price another $30 so I decided to go get it and try it out. I haven't hooked it up yet and just posted to mention the the financials at BB this weekend.

 

[rxblitzrx]

OK so the monitor actually arrived in one day and I didn't even know it because the email with the invoice and tracking came AFTER the monitor arrived. First impressions?

1) I think this thing is perfect for the price.

2) The display looks really grainy. I don't know if it's because the drivers are missing or if it's because I'm using a POS AGP video card. I'm running AGP to DVI. Could this be the problem??? The monitor almost looks like it has dust on it. Is this known as the "screen door" effect that people talk about on TN panels? This thing is SIPS right? Is there any way I can verify this???

3) I plan on reinstalling XP. I'm on Vista right now and the hardware support blows. My computer is way too slow anyways to support Vista. Will definitely give a very comprehensive review if I can get some help tweaking it. So far I've done the screen test program found on lcdresource.com and it looked pretty good in the dark.


xtknight your recommendation was right on. I'm glad I kept this monitor. I was kinda sad about it all day at work and didn't really have high hopes for it when I finally got to open it 12 hours later. Boy was I wrong.