LCD Buyer's Guide

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xboxist

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2002
3,026
1
71
xtknight -- I've pretty much convinced myself and a friend to pick up the 20WMGX2. However, he's stressing concern over the overall quality of how text is displayed. He does a ton of writing on his computer, so that would be a huge breaking point for him. He's torn between that monitor and the 24" BenQ for movie editing, movie watching, gaming and text. He's trying to make the bext decision for him. Can you give any advice that could help him decide?
 

Ballz2TheWallz

Junior Member
Jan 7, 2007
8
0
0
xtknight, I'm looking for an LCD for about $350> to use for web browsing/movies/little gaming, which would you pick LG Flatron L204WT, SyncMaster 205BW, or AL2216WBD, 1680x1050. Bigger for me is preferred but my biggest concerns are backlight bleeding and dead pixels.
 

Logical Disconnect

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2007
1
0
0
Just a question for xt and other owners of the 20wgx2/20wmgx2 -

I live in Australia, so I can only get the 20wgx2 (without component inputs, HDCP and so on). I'm wanting to use the monitor for my 360 and for my PC (gaming, word processing etc.).

As such, I'm wondering what the NEC's VGA input quality is like - does it look good, or is it washed out like all other VGA inputs I've tried with my 360?

Regardless, I'm considering getting the BenQ FP241W instead of the NEC, since it's only about $AU200 more expensive than the 20wgx2 and has many more inputs, as well as HDCP support. I've emailed BenQ about the firmware update for 1:1 mapping and they say it's just undergoing testing in Sydney now and will be available for free relatively soon, so that's not an issue. What I'm wondering is what people's views are on the FP241W, in terms of image quality, colour quality, ghosting etc., especially in comparison to the NEC. Would the 360 over component on the FP241W look better than it would over VGA on the 20wgx2?

Thanks a lot.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: 9nines
Xtknight or anyone,

I just got a 20wmgx2. It looks great. I was wondering if you help on a few issues.

One ? on best text viewing:

Sometimes text looks great and sometimes (as in when I am in Word) it does not. For example, on most web pages and only text under desktop shortcuts, text looks very good. On a minority of web pages and in applications such as Word, it does not look so good. In the latter cases, it looks pixilated and zaggy.

I figured that has to do with the Sharpness setting but I tried the full range and I really only notice any difference at the very lowest range (like below 7.0 or so), as text gets blurry ? anything over 8 or so, seem to look the same all the way to 100.

I know what you mean. It's because of the lack of decent anti-aliasing in Windows. You either get it razor sharp and harsh looking, or you have to use ClearType, which ends up being just the opposite of what it is called. All you can do is improve the source. It's really not the monitor's fault despite it seeming that way. This will happen with all high-contrast LCDs. Lowering the brightness might help. Calibration doesn't do much for aliased text.

16.6 is the 'no processing' (default) value on the NEC 20WMGX2, to my knowledge.

Two ? overall settings, for gaming and web browsing:

My main use, when image quality matters on my machine is playing FPS and Online RPGs and general web browsing.

I have seen your recommendation on settings and tried them but never saw you recommend a Sharpness setting.

For my intended use what do you recommend for:

?1 Brightness
?2 Contrast
?3 Sharpness
?4 Advanced DV Mode (on/off?)
?5 DV Mode*
?6 Color **

My brightness and contrast settings will probably look like crap on yours unless you also use my gamma profile. But I will post that as well.

1. 21.0% (0.24 cd/m2 black)
2. 93.0% (160 cd/m2 white)
3. 16.6% (no add'l processing)
4. Off for general usage, rarely On even for entertainment
5. Standard (no add'l processing)
6. Calibrated user settings: R=77.6%, G=74.9%, B=78.4% (sRGB@6500K)

Gamma profile: nec20wgx2_20070107_6500.icm

Apply with software such as xcalib.

Some additional info:

You lose some colors when adjusting gamma. I could use native so I didn't lose anything but color accuracy suffers. I prefer losing the colors in favor of having more accurate ones.

> xcalib -loss
( Resolution loss for 256 entries:
R: 16 G: 17 B: 19 colors lost )

* (you and many state ?standard? but ?gaming? and ?movies? seem a nicer blue and dark ? also, even in ?Standard?, I still see some banding, if graphics seem to be pictures in lower resolution, such as some on splash screens or web pages. Is the banding the only disadvantage to you on the other settings like ?gaming? and ?movies? or are there other advantages?)

There are only about two small mistakes in the gradient in standard/text mode for the 20WMGX2. The rest of the gradient looks as expected on an LCD. Movie, gaming, and photo modes affect the gamma and adversely affect quality (note: store settings).

** (I like ?native? as well, as you have posted before but have you found any good custom RGB settings?)

I have listed my calibrated ones above.

Three ? on scaling:

Also, as many have stated you can not get good 1:1 scaling and can not set the Exapnsion mode on DVI-PC. But if you set DV Mode, under Tools to DVI-HD you can then change Expansion setting but the picture is flickering as if it is a CRT on low frequency. Do you know what the DVI-HD is? Why the flickering? Can you set it to DVI-HD then change Expansion settings then put it back to DVI-PC, to get that Expansion setting chance for DVI-PC? I tried this a few times and once, a lower resolution game did have bars but later when I played the game again, the bars were gone and the image was stretched to full screen again and I have not got back to bars again, trying to force it again. Any ideas on this? Is it just and ATI card issue and Nvidia does work for 1:1 scaling on this monitor?

Thanks for any help and your previous informative posts.

With my LCD set to monitor scaling and DVI-HD I can not get any expansion options to appear over DVI. NVIDIA can do 1:1 if the video card does the scaling and outputs 1680x1050. ATI, for the most part, can not do it properly at all though some 10-series Radeons (Xnnnn cards) apparently can.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: xboxist
xtknight -- I've pretty much convinced myself and a friend to pick up the 20WMGX2. However, he's stressing concern over the overall quality of how text is displayed. He does a ton of writing on his computer, so that would be a huge breaking point for him. He's torn between that monitor and the 24" BenQ for movie editing, movie watching, gaming and text. He's trying to make the bext decision for him. Can you give any advice that could help him decide?

It's hard to say. If he uses Windows then his eyes might be in pain after looking at IE and FF with the really high contrast screen. Mac OS X and Linux are better at font rendering, but maybe there's something to replace the font engine in Windows. All it needs is some anti-aliasing. Actually I'll see how Vista fares with text rendering, if I recall it looked a lot better in Vista than XP.

Both are pretty high contrast screens but the BenQ will probably be more forgiving when it comes to poorly rendered, aliased text.
 

rxblitzrx

Senior member
Aug 14, 2006
400
0
0
Couple of questions:

1) Can someone recommend a video card to run Vista Ultimate w/ Aero?
1a) Something under $150.00
2) Is Aero even worth the video card upgrade from 6200LE 64MB w/ TurboCache?
3) How much bigger does your power supply have to get to support a video card with a pciE power connection?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Ballz2TheWallz
xtknight, I'm looking for an LCD for about $350> to use for web browsing/movies/little gaming, which would you pick LG Flatron L204WT, SyncMaster 205BW, or AL2216WBD, 1680x1050. Bigger for me is preferred but my biggest concerns are backlight bleeding and dead pixels.

I would go with the LG L204WT or the AL2215WBD. The 22" would probably have considerably more backlight bleeding though.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Chiapensis
Hey XT,
I noticed what appears to be a mixup on specs for the HP LP2065. In your LCD Buyer's Guide you list the LP2065 as an S-IPS panel, in the Prade review they have it listed as an S-PVA. Safe to assume that your info is correct?

Prade HP LP2605 review

I believe PRAD made a mistake. The panel in the LP2065 is most definitely an S-IPS. HP has always used S-IPS in their high end screens (LP*). From the viewing angle reports its quite obvious it's an S-IPS as well.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Logical Disconnect
Just a question for xt and other owners of the 20wgx2/20wmgx2 -

I live in Australia, so I can only get the 20wgx2 (without component inputs, HDCP and so on). I'm wanting to use the monitor for my 360 and for my PC (gaming, word processing etc.).

As such, I'm wondering what the NEC's VGA input quality is like - does it look good, or is it washed out like all other VGA inputs I've tried with my 360?

I believe this is a known issue with the 360. I can't tell a difference between DVI and VGA when outputting from a video card with a good transmitter (7800GT).

Regardless, I'm considering getting the BenQ FP241W instead of the NEC, since it's only about $AU200 more expensive than the 20wgx2 and has many more inputs, as well as HDCP support. I've emailed BenQ about the firmware update for 1:1 mapping and they say it's just undergoing testing in Sydney now and will be available for free relatively soon, so that's not an issue. What I'm wondering is what people's views are on the FP241W, in terms of image quality, colour quality, ghosting etc., especially in comparison to the NEC. Would the 360 over component on the FP241W look better than it would over VGA on the 20wgx2?

Thanks a lot.

If you can run it at the 360's native (1920x1080 scaled 1:1 [when available] on FP241W), it will look the same. The NEC has to downscale but downscaling is like AA: it pretty improves quality in a way

The 20WGX2 will have less ghosting, and it may provide higher contrast with its coating and better default gamma settings. But with the FP241W's higher resolution it would be a tough call. People outside the US honestly get screwed with the LCD20WGX2 model so if I were you I'd get the FP241W.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Couple of questions:

1) Can someone recommend a video card to run Vista Ultimate w/ Aero?
1a) Something under $150.00

Probably low-end GeForce 7xxx. Don't expect DX10 support but it will run Aero just fine. I just grabbed the 7600GT for a mid-range system.

2) Is Aero even worth the video card upgrade from 6200LE 64MB w/ TurboCache?

I doubt it, but see how it runs...

3) How much bigger does your power supply have to get to support a video card with a pciE power connection?

You should really post this in the video forum as it's not related to LCDs. Quality 300W power supplies come with PCIe power connectors and can provide enough power in a lower end system. Most lower GeForces or Radeons don't need external power connectors.
 

MrBojangels

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2007
15
0
0
XTknight what panel would you go with for under $400? widescreen and 20.1inch are the only things I care for.

22inches works, but those are all poor TNs? I noticed a lot of them have horrible backlight bleeding but sometimes they don't.
 

rxblitzrx

Senior member
Aug 14, 2006
400
0
0
Sorry for the mis-post, but thanks for the recommendation! I'm still running the LP2065 off VGA to DVI but will post a short review later this week.
 

MrBojangels

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2007
15
0
0
Originally posted by: Logical Disconnect
Just a question for xt and other owners of the 20wgx2/20wmgx2 -

I live in Australia, so I can only get the 20wgx2 (without component inputs, HDCP and so on). I'm wanting to use the monitor for my 360 and for my PC (gaming, word processing etc.).

As such, I'm wondering what the NEC's VGA input quality is like - does it look good, or is it washed out like all other VGA inputs I've tried with my 360?

Regardless, I'm considering getting the BenQ FP241W instead of the NEC, since it's only about $AU200 more expensive than the 20wgx2 and has many more inputs, as well as HDCP support. I've emailed BenQ about the firmware update for 1:1 mapping and they say it's just undergoing testing in Sydney now and will be available for free relatively soon, so that's not an issue. What I'm wondering is what people's views are on the FP241W, in terms of image quality, colour quality, ghosting etc., especially in comparison to the NEC. Would the 360 over component on the FP241W look better than it would over VGA on the 20wgx2?

Thanks a lot.
Your Xbox 360 should not be washed out unless you haven't received any of the Xbox Live updates. They fixed the gamma issue half a year ago and added DVD upscaling over VGA with it.
 

rxblitzrx

Senior member
Aug 14, 2006
400
0
0
QUESTION: What can I use to clean the LCD screen? I was in CompUSA today and they have a ton of stuff to choose from. Alcohol based? Non-alcohol? Disposable? Non-disposable?
 

samduhman

Senior member
Jul 18, 2005
397
2
81
PC Gamers "Ultimate Guide to Gaming Hardware Issue" has recommended the Dell 24" 2407WFP for gamers who want to go all lcd all the time and the Samsung 931c for gamers wiht bionic eyes and reflexes.

Whats your thoughts on pc gamers recommendations? Being a hardcore gamer the comment they made about the 931c makes me want to dash out and buy the 931c to replace my VX2025wm

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: MrBojangels
XTknight what panel would you go with for under $400? widescreen and 20.1inch are the only things I care for.

Exactly what I list in the first post. i.e. LG L204WT, Samsung 205BW....

22inches works, but those are all poor TNs? I noticed a lot of them have horrible backlight bleeding but sometimes they don't.

22" TNs do have lots of backlight bleeding. The LG L204WT and 205BW are still TNs but backlight bleeding is relatively low.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
QUESTION: What can I use to clean the LCD screen? I was in CompUSA today and they have a ton of stuff to choose from. Alcohol based? Non-alcohol? Disposable? Non-disposable?

Distilled water and microfiber cloth is best. Personally I just use water out of my faucet and an old t-shirt (tissues rip too easy)...works just fine. I've never had it abrade the surface and it's been fairly clean. There are a couple spots still on there probably left by hard water that show up off and on, but they're really only visible when the LCD is off anyway.

Never use alcohol or ammonia or any other chemicals that may abrade the coating.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: samduhman
PC Gamers "Ultimate Guide to Gaming Hardware Issue" has recommended the Dell 24" 2407WFP for gamers who want to go all lcd all the time and the Samsung 931c for gamers wiht bionic eyes and reflexes.

Whats your thoughts on pc gamers recommendations? Being a hardcore gamer the comment they made about the 931c makes me want to dash out and buy the 931c to replace my VX2025wm

Sounds about right. I think the 931C is a decent gaming LCD, but I haven't seen any reviews to confirm it.

The wider gamut may result in more vibrant colors. But color accuracy went down the...well, you know. But games don't need color accuracy anyway. If all you do is game then go for it. I'm sure it'll be faster than the VX2025WM. I'd probably keep the VX2025WM due to its higher color depth and better contrast though. But it's certainly fallen a bit from where it used to be.
 

MrBojangels

Junior Member
Jan 8, 2007
15
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: MrBojangels
XTknight what panel would you go with for under $400? widescreen and 20.1inch are the only things I care for.

Exactly what I list in the first post. i.e. LG L204WT, Samsung 205BW....

22inches works, but those are all poor TNs? I noticed a lot of them have horrible backlight bleeding but sometimes they don't.

22" TNs do have lots of backlight bleeding. The LG L204WT and 205BW are still TNs but backlight bleeding is relatively low.

Well I guess I will run out to CircuiCity and try it out then, I don't think I will like it though.

edit: I hear these have really bad buzzing issues, that is why I didn't consider it in the first place.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: BassBomb
Is there such thing as 8 bit TN panels?

Not that I know of. The L204WT has been widely regarded as an 8-bit TN, but I believe it still dithers (actually FRCs) to achieve that color depth.
 

AMDZen

Lifer
Apr 15, 2004
12,639
0
76
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Rapishorrid
Hello everyone. I am looking to replace my ancient CRT.

Price range: <$350

I want something that's at least a 19". I play a lot of games, but I don't want an LCD too tailored towards games if it compromises things like color, contrast etc. Basically I want something that I will notice minimal difference from my CRT in regards to gaming, but with good features other than just a nice response time. I was looking at the first two on the "gaming" section of the OP and some of the ones on the "multimedia" section. Thought I'd ask here

The LG L204WT sounds ideal for you, or the Samsung 205BW if availability for that is better in your area. I'd prefer the L204WT due to its better gamma settings and deeper black level. Both should have minimal backlight bleeding. The L204WT is $315 after rebate at Circuit City, which is the only place you can get it from.

What about this one?? I am looking for about the same thing this guy is looking for. But I don't see anything on this monitor other then the newegg reviews which look good. This think is only a bit more and I get 2 more inches over the LG your listing
 

jshellman

Junior Member
Dec 12, 2006
6
0
0
So, I was desparate to get a monitor soon, so I went and grabbed one from Costco. They had very few choices.

I grabbed the vx2235wm. After setting it up (using DVI input powered by GeForce 6800 GT), I'm not all that impressed. Showing a DVD (winxp64 with nvidia purevideo decoder), the colors didn't look very good--looked dithered (it's a 6-bit panel, so, not too surprising, I guess).

Aside: Also, the buttons along the front are absurd--very hard to press.

Anyway, my question is: I've read a lot of good about the lp2065 and so just ordered one (I'm an office user who will also occasionally game or watch a movie with it). Shoudl I expect to notice a significant increase in quality on the lp2065 from the vx2235wm? I'm hoping so.

Thanks!
 
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